Minnesota Sports Forum

A Friendly Flatulence wrote:I don't get why some of you are so condescending on the "mentorship" aspect of KG, its not like this is the first time veteran leadership has been used as an attribute a player brings to the table. And it certainly won't be the last time players past their prime are given the benefit of the doubt because they have valuable experiences that no one else on our roster can bring.

Is it just sour grapes or what?

Is he going to be working on jumpshot form with Rubio no, is he going to be patting Bennett on the back saying "you can do this buddy" of course not, but he is without a doubt a future hall of famer. One of the best to ever play his position, has a title, MVP, DPOY, and brings intensity & drive that you need to become a champion. Couple all of those positives with the fact that he is the greatest player this franchise has ever had and you've got a good mix of nostalgia (which sells tickets too), experience (which our team is missing), and a decent player. We weren't competing for a championship this year or next, we're building a foundation that could contend in 3-5 years if we are lucky.

Could you imagine if we paid KG 30 million this season & weren't able to get any FAs because of him? I think I'd die from all the bitching and moaning from some of you.

AND FINALLY ITS NOT YOUR MONEY.

end of rant.

Nice rant, although if we were paying KG $30M this season, I think even YOU would be bitching and moaning!

(everything you said is well and good, but it doesn't mean I have to like the process in which they brought him on board. I think they could have accomplished the same objective without the trade and without the fat contract. Details like that matter to me, but yeah, they got their man).

Q12543 wrote:

thedoper wrote:

Q12543 wrote:Let's face it....This is a pure Country Club move to help grease the skids smoothly for KG's inevitable foray into the front office. It seems as if we were bidding against ourselves. Given all the money this franchise paid KG over the years, I find it a little off-putting that we had to spend $8M per year for a guy that may not even play 1,000 minutes for us next season.

If his value is primarily tied to his on-the-court presence, as LST says, than shouldn't the actual amount of time he can BE on the court matter? That $8M would be more like $16-20M if pro-rated to a full-time player.

That Magic Mentoring Potion© better work!

How would you quantify working? Already all of the young players seemed pumped about having him on the team. Just curious as to how you would judge his impact as being positive.

The only kind of work I can quantify for a professional basketball player is a) minutes played, and b) production/efficiency/effort while playing those minutes. By those two metrics, I don't see how KG is an $8M per year player.

I don't have a problem with KG being on the squad or being part of the team in some way, shape, or form. I agree that his wisdom and experience is useful. What bugs me is the whole process through which he's been brought on board:

1. The trade that brought him here - We could have just signed him as a free agent this offseason.

2. The bait and switch Flip pulled, whereby we all had a feel-good game or two to juice ticket sales and then suddenly he was shelved, almost never to be seen again. How much mentoring was he doing while Gorgui, Hamilton, and Payne were getting their asses handed to them every night in the paint?

3. The $16M two year deal for a player that is only going to be more injury-prone and less productive based on his age and past few seasons. And even when healthy, he can only play about a quarter of the available minutes due to a minutes and games cap. That seems like an overpay.

So yeah, I'm nitpicking the small stuff because it bugs me.

So there is really no way that KG could live up to the 8mil value in the next to seasons since the his impacts as mentor/teacher are not part of your metric for success? I am curious whether you think that off court behavior should affect a players' value in terms of $? Under your metrics it seems like a crack addict who produced on the court would have been a better investment for this team. I say if the kids want him here, then go for it. They have all said separately how excited and enthusiastic they are about having him here. It has been a long time since any talented player seemed genuinely excited about playing for the Wolves. I think KG is a factor in that and his temporary compensation reflects that.

Q, we both know the NBA is much more nuanced than just minutes played on the court. Locker room chemistry/environment I'd argue is a key component to any championship team that doesn't have Lebron. Golden State was able to win it all this year, not only because of talent on their roster, but the chemistry/feng shui/understanding amongst players about what it takes to win. sacrifice and knowing your role yada yada yada ie. David Lee & Iguodala & Bogut

We've got some young impressionable teenagers/20 year olds that just became millionaires. I think it is a wise investment to do what is in your power to put them in a situation where they don't contract the "hey we made it" or "I'm young I'm rich lets go party" attitude but someone that can push them and they will listen when KG says you can do better (at least one would hope). Gotta further cement good habits

We could pay KG 50 Million this year for all I care (as long as the ticket prices didn't go up), it wasn't possible to get any free agents, 8 million next year, ehh we'll see how it plays out before I say anything (also does he still count towards the cap if he transitions to the front office? I'm hoping not because that would make us even more flexible)

Yes we could have signed him in the offseason true, but it cost us Thad? I don't recall any rumors of Thad netting us anything worth a damn, and we didn't pick up any longterm salary (we didn't want) and here's the kicker it helped us lose more games!!! And because of that WE GOT THE NUMBER 1 PICK. Hooray us we earned it. Another caveat to note, KG could have just as well gone ring chasing this summer as a FA and signed with a contender and come to the wolves ownership after he retired, but because we traded for him he essentially couldn't leave IMO if he ever wanted to come into the ownership (kinda like the Lebron and Cleveland deal he ain't leaving again not if he ever wants to come back to cleveland).

thedoper wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

thedoper wrote:

Q12543 wrote:Let's face it....This is a pure Country Club move to help grease the skids smoothly for KG's inevitable foray into the front office. It seems as if we were bidding against ourselves. Given all the money this franchise paid KG over the years, I find it a little off-putting that we had to spend $8M per year for a guy that may not even play 1,000 minutes for us next season.

If his value is primarily tied to his on-the-court presence, as LST says, than shouldn't the actual amount of time he can BE on the court matter? That $8M would be more like $16-20M if pro-rated to a full-time player.

That Magic Mentoring Potion© better work!

How would you quantify working? Already all of the young players seemed pumped about having him on the team. Just curious as to how you would judge his impact as being positive.

The only kind of work I can quantify for a professional basketball player is a) minutes played, and b) production/efficiency/effort while playing those minutes. By those two metrics, I don't see how KG is an $8M per year player.

I don't have a problem with KG being on the squad or being part of the team in some way, shape, or form. I agree that his wisdom and experience is useful. What bugs me is the whole process through which he's been brought on board:

1. The trade that brought him here - We could have just signed him as a free agent this offseason.

2. The bait and switch Flip pulled, whereby we all had a feel-good game or two to juice ticket sales and then suddenly he was shelved, almost never to be seen again. How much mentoring was he doing while Gorgui, Hamilton, and Payne were getting their asses handed to them every night in the paint?

3. The $16M two year deal for a player that is only going to be more injury-prone and less productive based on his age and past few seasons. And even when healthy, he can only play about a quarter of the available minutes due to a minutes and games cap. That seems like an overpay.

So yeah, I'm nitpicking the small stuff because it bugs me.

So there is really no way that KG could live up to the 8mil value in the next to seasons since the his impacts as mentor/teacher are not part of your metric for success? I am curious whether you think that off court behavior should affect a players' value in terms of $? Under your metrics it seems like a crack addict who produced on the court would have been a better investment for this team. I say if the kids want him here, then go for it. They have all said separately how excited and enthusiastic they are about having him here. It has been a long time since any talented player seemed genuinely excited about playing for the Wolves. I think KG is a factor in that and his temporary compensation reflects that.

Well, obviously if someone is clearly a detractor to the team by being a major disruptor off the court, then no, they aren't worth it. But I see that mostly applied as a discount to a fair-market contract as opposed to giving people a premium because they are good team mates and role models. If we were to apply being a good team mate and off-the-court role model to the equation, than Robbie Hummel might be worth $8M per year as well!

I make fun of the mentoring thing because I think it has a fairly limited application with 20+ year old men. Yes, having veteran leadership helps. But individual talent, work ethic, and the ability to quickly absorb new concepts all vastly outweigh the value of mentoring.

As far as what the young guys say about KG, what the heck are they supposed to say? KG is a legend. No one is going to disrespect him. And I'm sure there is some degree of sincerity behind their comments. But I don't think they are falling all over themselves, breathlessly yearning to drink from the KG Fountain of Knowledge nearly as much as you think they are.

....One other thing on the young guys and KG, let's remember that when we hear about these kids looking forward to playing with KG, it's usually in response to a reporter asking a leading question, such as:

"Are you looking forward to playing with Minnesota Timberwolves legend, NBA champion, and future Hall of Famer Kevin Garnett?"

Well, how do you answer that!?

Again, I don't mean to be a totally jaded cynic. I do believe there is some value to KG's mentoring....I just think it's been vastly overplayed.

Didn't some of the players/coaches recount their/players reactions when they first heard the news that the Wolves traded for him? I recall that happening but will not take time to look for it. It would be a good indication of how they truly feel. Then again, they could have made that up as well.

Q can correct me if I am wrong but O think it's simply that he values KG and all he brings both on and off the court etc to a certain extent but NOT for 8 million. I'd be curious what Q would value KG at for a reasonable number or range. I think what Q is frustrated by is very reasonable and I generally agree with where he is coming from.

I will nitpick a little on Q here. I still maintain the trade for KG matters because he considers it some sort of loyalty thing. Maybe he won have come here for 8 million this year but the trade sealed it. The 8 million a year probably confirms that KG still considers himself a player in this league and so trading for him last year does matter.

I agree with Q that the really good players wil likely be good regardless of vet mentorship coaching etc but I do think this team has had a lack of that particularly (the Twins also) when it comes to vet leadership and KG is a guy that should be able to fulfill that role. I don't really think he deserves much more money for that however but I do suppose he will earn it more than some solid end of the bench vet playing on a contract near the minimum. This extra stuff is also stuff he is doing partly because of what he wants to do after his playing career ends. I don't know if he should be rewarded by a basketball contract for that. It's tough not to give a little extra to a guy like KG though all things considered though.

I do think KG could have taken the opportunity to take much less than he did and tell the young kids how he took less money to help the organization. Would that matter? Idk I would like to think so but maybe it's not a big deal at this point. Of course then you could get into how much less could he take before maybe taking less than he really should all things considered.

I will say it....the "mentorship" is a bunch of garbage. It would matter, in terms of what KG can provide if we were a contending team. KG brings perfect skills for a supremely talented team that is already successful. A vet guy that can come in and be productive in limited minutes, while not taking much coaching is valuable....to the Spurs, Cavs, etc. This team WILL NOT contend in the next 3-4 years. Playoffs, maybe...but not really contend for anything meaningful. Are we saying that 5-8 years from now these young guys are still basking in the KG glory? And the comments about KG mentoring while LBJ doesn't? Are we serious? So KG is a mentor while LBJ isn't....why again?

And I believe Kahn's question was...how will we judge his success. Simple...wins and loses, like all players. I would also add that our other big's better show drastic improvement due to the "mentoring" aspect. If those things don't happen in visible form, I would ask then why we just don't invest in a very young player that may or may not develop. Otherwise, what is the point?

And yeah, I get he will help focus the team. But so could many vet players....that cost a lot less than $8MM per season. Not every great player is a great, or even adequate coach. And I also totally understand this is not my money...and it is not your team, but some of you talk as if it is. Bad contracts are bad contracts. I hope this one doesn't bite us. I am not that concerned, but I do think we overpaid. I actually don't hate KG on this team simply because our other PF options suck so bad....but I would have been much happier with a 1 year deal.

Q12543 wrote:....One other thing on the young guys and KG, let's remember that when we hear about these kids looking forward to playing with KG, it's usually in response to a reporter asking a leading question, such as:

"Are you looking forward to playing with Minnesota Timberwolves legend, NBA champion, and future Hall of Famer Kevin Garnett?"

Well, how do you answer that!?

Again, I don't mean to be a totally jaded cynic. I do believe there is some value to KG's mentoring....I just think it's been vastly overplayed.

I hate these "questions" so much too, I mean be a fucking journalist (it is your job) instead of putting words into a players mouth "So are you excited to play next to KG?" so they can say put in the title TOWNS EXCITED TO PLAY WITH KG...so annoying.

While these pre-canned questions to induce an answer in the affirmative are trite, I do think there is some truth to wanting to play next to a Legend. But then again this a great era for basketball; the league has several current all-timers Dirk, Kobe, Duncan, KG, and I'll even throw in Lebron. I mean this career opportunity they have in front of them (if done right) could get them 100 million dollars or more. And to learn anything from a guy that's not only great but made $300+ million, I'd be trying to pick up any tips and pointers he had. Him just being in the building is a constant reminder of hey look there is greatness right there, better work my ass off so I can reap the rewards one day. Basketball aside any profession where you get to work next to someone who had mega success in their field will have a positive impact on anyone who is indeed serious about their craft.

All things aside, I think our Timberwolves predisposition has ill-equipped us to handle all these positive fortune recently. The last 12 months honestly could not have gone much better (Payne and possibly AB aside). I mean if Towns doesn't bust we could actually be contenders in a few years.

Something I haven't see mentioned (but I could have missed it because this is a worthless conversation) is the effect KG will have on fan interest, ticket sales and overall energy in the Target Center. He makes an impact, and that is worth some dollars.

Also, since I read this stuff about "measuring his impact" and "not contending for 3-4 years", I assume a serious playoff push this season has got be viewed as a positive impact by KG. Right?