Minnesota Sports Forum

TheFuture wrote:

Camden0916 wrote:

TheFuture wrote:

rapsuperstar31 wrote:

TheFuture wrote:Hypothetically, Ainge wants to move up to #1 for Wiseman. What other assets would you want from the Celtics along with Smart for #1 and JJ?

Smart doesn't do anything for me. The only player on Boston I want that might be available would be Jaylen Brown. Rumors last off season was that he could be had for the right price. He had a terrific season this year though, so he probably isn't available. I haven't seen what draft picks Boston owns, but they usually own several so I suppose if they throw in enough picks I would look at it.

Brown and Tatum are likely their two untouchables.

What about Smart do you not like for this team?

The better question is what about Smart is worth trading the first overall pick for? Granted, I know you're suggesting a package deal, but he would be the headliner, no? That's just not good enough.

Not to mention, his role on this team is already filled by Josh Okogie and Jarrett Culver, albeit at a lesser level. Too much redundancy.

Okogie definitely does not play the same role. Culver you can argue for.

Smart is a far better defender than both immediately, still young, and plays in an as an immediate compliment to our core.

I would do Smart, 14, 26 (maybe 30 aldo?) in a heartbeat.

Again, a hypothetical.

We have nothing to lose at the moment outside or DLO and KAT.

Danny Ainge would make that trade in a millisecond because it's an absolute ripoff. It would be an even greater heist than the Jayson Tatum trade he made several years ago. Man, oh, man.

Camden0916 wrote:

TheFuture wrote:

Camden0916 wrote:

TheFuture wrote:

rapsuperstar31 wrote:

TheFuture wrote:Hypothetically, Ainge wants to move up to #1 for Wiseman. What other assets would you want from the Celtics along with Smart for #1 and JJ?

Smart doesn't do anything for me. The only player on Boston I want that might be available would be Jaylen Brown. Rumors last off season was that he could be had for the right price. He had a terrific season this year though, so he probably isn't available. I haven't seen what draft picks Boston owns, but they usually own several so I suppose if they throw in enough picks I would look at it.

Brown and Tatum are likely their two untouchables.

What about Smart do you not like for this team?

The better question is what about Smart is worth trading the first overall pick for? Granted, I know you're suggesting a package deal, but he would be the headliner, no? That's just not good enough.

Not to mention, his role on this team is already filled by Josh Okogie and Jarrett Culver, albeit at a lesser level. Too much redundancy.

Okogie definitely does not play the same role. Culver you can argue for.

Smart is a far better defender than both immediately, still young, and plays in an as an immediate compliment to our core.

I would do Smart, 14, 26 (maybe 30 aldo?) in a heartbeat.

Again, a hypothetical.

We have nothing to lose at the moment outside or DLO and KAT.

Danny Ainge would make that trade in a millisecond because it's an absolute ripoff. It would be an even greater heist than the Jayson Tatum trade he made several years ago. Man, oh, man.

Trading down for Smart and #14 and #26? Ok yeah I like Smart but I wouldn't do that. FWIW the only draft picks the Celtics have now is that #14 from Memphis. They haven't suckered anyone else into future picks for a while.

What makes that trade more problematic is we would have to send James Johnson back in the deal and he has some value as a player to the current roster. Meanwhile what are the Timberwolves gonna do with #14 #17 #26 and #33? I mean maybe there are some good things like moving back up or getting a 2021 pick but that's none of that is certain. Smart is only signed for 2 more years and he is signed for what his worth. I don't see him as a value contract. If he was making like 10 million or less then that would add to his value but he is making 13 and 14 million. Is he worth more than that? Some people would say yes but ai saw he is paid reasonably. If Smart was something god a guy that was going to put this team in a spot to be a legit top 4 playoff team...that might make sense. That's not where we are now. We need to hope Okogie, Culver or someone else brings that type of value to the team.

I watched Rosas media availability and not much really jumped out at me except one thing. When Jace Fredrick asked about PGs in this draft and how Rosas approaches the draft with Russell on the roster. Gersson talked about how Russell can play on and off the ball etc and during that conversation he said only one other name Jordon McLaughlin. He mentioned how they were really happy with his development. McLaughlin was one of 3 players Rosas actually said their names during nearly 20 minutes. I'd guess you can relax if you were worried about he Wolves not keeping J-Mac around.

The other thing that was a bit interesting was that when asked about the draft not having a top guy Rosas said in the outside it does seem that way but he said they feel confident that they will find the most talented guy etc. He sidestepped the question but it's different than what the headlines made it sound like that he said "There is no consensus top player in the draft".

I think it's pretty crazy how much the league has shifted where on the outside looking in there is no consensus #1 in this draft. If this were even 5 years ago Wiseman would be the slam dunk number 1 pick no question. He should still be the slam dunk number 1 pick no question and because the league has de-valued the Center position so much it leaves the door open for an Edwards or a Ball to sneak in. It's just crazy to me how little information these teams have to make on multi-year, multi-million dollar investments because of the NCAA sticking it to some players and programs and not others. The NBA has to get this G-League program up and running quicker and let a guy like Wiseman in the future or Ball sign with a team whenever to get some tape on them.

What if the Sixers had drafted Kristaps Porzingis in 2015 instead of Jahlil Okafor? How different is the league in terms of valuing bigs? Would a Joel Embiid and Porzingis pairing make NBA pundits consider the possibility of pairing Karl-Anthony Towns with James Wiseman in Minnesota? What if DeMarcus Cousins never tore his Achilles in 2017? What kind of success could Anthony Davis and Cousins have had in a larger sample size? What about Al Horford and Paul Millsap in Atlanta? Didn't they win 60 games before losing to LeBron James in the Conference Finals? Wasn't the addition of Millsap a big boost to the rise of the Denver Nuggets and Nikola Jokic?

These are just some questions I have when I see those in the media dismiss Wiseman to Minnesota because of Towns' existence. You can win in the NBA with multiple blueprints. There is no one singular way to build a winner.

Camden0916 wrote:What if the Sixers had drafted Kristaps Porzingis in 2015 instead of Jahlil Okafor? How different is the league in terms of valuing bigs? Would a Joel Embiid and Porzingis pairing make NBA pundits consider the possibility of pairing Karl-Anthony Towns with James Wiseman in Minnesota? What if DeMarcus Cousins never tore his Achilles in 2017? What kind of success could Anthony Davis and Cousins have had in a larger sample size? What about Al Horford and Paul Millsap in Atlanta? Didn't they win 60 games before losing to LeBron James in the Conference Finals? Wasn't the addition of Millsap a big boost to the rise of the Denver Nuggets and Nikola Jokic?

These are just some questions I have when I see those in the media dismiss Wiseman to Minnesota because of Towns' existence. You can win in the NBA with multiple blueprints. There is no one singular way to build a winner.

The unkown is whether Towns or Wiseman would ever be good to great defenders. It only makes sense if they can defend. Towns hasn't yet shown that ability, and there seem to be some questions to Wiseman's commitment to D and instincts as well. If Wiseman is a game changing defender, then hell yes. I like the theoretical idea of it, I'm just a bit concerned in the mystery of Wiseman's D.

thedoper wrote:

Camden0916 wrote:What if the Sixers had drafted Kristaps Porzingis in 2015 instead of Jahlil Okafor? How different is the league in terms of valuing bigs? Would a Joel Embiid and Porzingis pairing make NBA pundits consider the possibility of pairing Karl-Anthony Towns with James Wiseman in Minnesota? What if DeMarcus Cousins never tore his Achilles in 2017? What kind of success could Anthony Davis and Cousins have had in a larger sample size? What about Al Horford and Paul Millsap in Atlanta? Didn't they win 60 games before losing to LeBron James in the Conference Finals? Wasn't the addition of Millsap a big boost to the rise of the Denver Nuggets and Nikola Jokic?

These are just some questions I have when I see those in the media dismiss Wiseman to Minnesota because of Towns' existence. You can win in the NBA with multiple blueprints. There is no one singular way to build a winner.

The unkown is whether Towns or Wiseman would ever be good to great defenders. It only makes sense if they can defend. Towns hasn't yet shown that ability, and there seem to be some questions to Wiseman's commitment to D and instincts as well. If Wiseman is a game changing defender, then hell yes. I like the theoretical idea of it, I'm just a bit concerned in the mystery of Wiseman's D.

Cam your point is still valid but I don't really consider Millsap a big in the sense you are suggesting.

Is Wiseman actually really talented in a multifaceted way and can play D? Not everyone is convinced of that. I do agree with Cam's point that the idea that 2 bigs can't work is not really accurate. If Say Vanderbilt turns into a somewhat lesser version of Draymond (theoretically) and plays PF 30mpg for the Wolves that means we can't win a championship cause guys are too tall or something? What if Wiseman is the next Siakam?

Again some of this is how people view Wiseman as a prospect not as much the position he plays but I do think we should be more open minded about what COULD happen at PF/C for the this roster not just in terms of Wiseman. What if Towns became and/utilized something more like a Kevin Durant type player than a post guy? Think about it for a while. Keep in mind the Wolves have said they want to build around Towns. I don't think they should abandon Towns getting touches in the post but there is a lot they could potentially do With towns all over the floor with a guy like Wiseman around. I think we need to be more open to the idea of Wiseman or another long player fitting this roster. I'm speaking to myself as much as anyone here.

thedoper wrote:

Camden0916 wrote:What if the Sixers had drafted Kristaps Porzingis in 2015 instead of Jahlil Okafor? How different is the league in terms of valuing bigs? Would a Joel Embiid and Porzingis pairing make NBA pundits consider the possibility of pairing Karl-Anthony Towns with James Wiseman in Minnesota? What if DeMarcus Cousins never tore his Achilles in 2017? What kind of success could Anthony Davis and Cousins have had in a larger sample size? What about Al Horford and Paul Millsap in Atlanta? Didn't they win 60 games before losing to LeBron James in the Conference Finals? Wasn't the addition of Millsap a big boost to the rise of the Denver Nuggets and Nikola Jokic?

These are just some questions I have when I see those in the media dismiss Wiseman to Minnesota because of Towns' existence. You can win in the NBA with multiple blueprints. There is no one singular way to build a winner.

The unkown is whether Towns or Wiseman would ever be good to great defenders. It only makes sense if they can defend. Towns hasn't yet shown that ability, and there seem to be some questions to Wiseman's commitment to D and instincts as well. If Wiseman is a game changing defender, then hell yes. I like the theoretical idea of it, I'm just a bit concerned in the mystery of Wiseman's D.

Well the only time Towns has ever been a "good" defender was playing next to another versatile 7 footer in college allowing him to stay more planted at home in the paint. In the playoffs teams would find a way to work around that and still exploit him, but hunting for matchups and mismatches on every offensive possession isn't really a regular season trait of the NBA. Teams just run their stuff and if the game comes down to the wire they may do it but not the same as how you prepare for a team in a 7 game series. At the end of the day having a 7 footer rotating over to the driving player to help should help both of them out rather than both of them relying on essentially a wing to help them out.

I'd also add Myles Turner and Domantas Sabonis as two bigs that co-exist together. Sabonis plays PF when playing with Turner and he's not nearly as athletic and mobile as Wiseman.

I think the issue with both these guys (KAT and Wiseman) is defensive fundamentals and commitment. Both have absolutely nothing stopping them physically from being good defenders. I think we already know KAT isn't going to get there - it would have happened by now. But I don't want to rule that possibility out with Wiseman even though he still has a long ways to go on that end. If we draft him, he will be allowed to focus more on defense because he won't really be relied upon that much for offense. KAT was one of our top offensive options starting his rookie year.

Q12543 wrote:I'd also add Myles Turner and Domantas Sabonis as two bigs that co-exist together. Sabonis plays PF when playing with Turner and he's not nearly as athletic and mobile as Wiseman.

I think the issue with both these guys (KAT and Wiseman) is defensive fundamentals and commitment. Both have absolutely nothing stopping them physically from being good defenders. I think we already know KAT isn't going to get there - it would have happened by now. But I don't want to rule that possibility out with Wiseman even though he still has a long ways to go on that end. If we draft him, he will be allowed to focus more on defense because he won't really be relied upon that much for offense. KAT was one of our top offensive options starting his rookie year.

Q12543 wrote:I'd also add Myles Turner and Domantas Sabonis as two bigs that co-exist together. Sabonis plays PF when playing with Turner and he's not nearly as athletic and mobile as Wiseman.

I think the issue with both these guys (KAT and Wiseman) is defensive fundamentals and commitment. Both have absolutely nothing stopping them physically from being good defenders. I think we already know KAT isn't going to get there - it would have happened by now. But I don't want to rule that possibility out with Wiseman even though he still has a long ways to go on that end. If we draft him, he will be allowed to focus more on defense because he won't really be relied upon that much for offense. KAT was one of our top offensive options starting his rookie year.

And therein lies the risk of drafting Wiseman; i.e., he seems to have the same defensive issues as KAT. In KAT's case, I agree there's a lack of commitment to the defensive end. What you're calling lack of fundamental, I'd characterize as poor defensive instincts or low defensive IQ. From what I've read, Wiseman has exactly the same issue. I don't know how much that deficiency can be expected to improve. One reason I like Okongwu for the Wolves is that he looks like a natural instinctive defender and that's what we need more than anything to pair with KAT. But Okongwu doesn't have Wiseman's length or, I would argue, Wiseman's offensive potential.