Jonathan Isaac

[Monster]

Make the pie bigger to include more people and really make REAL CHANGES.

Doesn't Amazon sell oversized pie tins?

The answer is bigger pies. I can get on board with that. I do hope this doesn't actually just mean a bigger pie chart though. It seems the percentages would still be the same. ;)

[Wolvesfan21]

Monster I am not knocking BLM for their stance, but at the same time it is a myopic view of the over Justice System problem. Problem isn't even a strong enough word... disaster, incarnation, abomination, IDK, lol

The Justice System doesn't ONLY unfairly attack blacks or minorities. That is all I am getting at. Be INCLUSIVE not EXCLUSIVE. Make the pie bigger to include more people and really make REAL CHANGES.

Are you sure they are ONLY saying it unfairly treats blacks and other minorities and that's the ONLY people they hope to help with changes? I think they are looking at real changes that would Actually aim to uplift everyone. It kinda reminds me of Universal design how it's an accommodation for people with disabilities but it often benefits everyone.

I get what you are saying, however not many people dig deeper to actually pay attention to the real messaging. BLM could be seen as divisive to some, I know I have heard comments from people that say, oh those rioters that block traffic, can't stand them, etc. Yes I know the media and everyone on that side is against changing the system, I'm not sure the issues are being put forth in a concise way to the avg Joe without turning them off, again likely due to the rioting and a few bad actors and medias contempt to change.

I suppose that at least continuing to bringing attention to this will spread the truth to more and more. So even if things have not gone great, it's still better then doing nothing.

[Monster]

Monster I am not knocking BLM for their stance, but at the same time it is a myopic view of the over Justice System problem. Problem isn't even a strong enough word... disaster, incarnation, abomination, IDK, lol

The Justice System doesn't ONLY unfairly attack blacks or minorities. That is all I am getting at. Be INCLUSIVE not EXCLUSIVE. Make the pie bigger to include more people and really make REAL CHANGES.

Are you sure they are ONLY saying it unfairly treats blacks and other minorities and that's the ONLY people they hope to help with changes? I think they are looking at real changes that would Actually aim to uplift everyone. It kinda reminds me of Universal design how it's an accommodation for people with disabilities but it often benefits everyone.

I get what you are saying, however not many people dig deeper to actually pay attention to the real messaging. BLM could be seen as divisive to some, I know I have heard comments from people that say, oh those rioters that block traffic, can't stand them, etc. Yes I know the media and everyone on that side is against changing the system, I'm not sure the issues are being put forth in a concise way to the avg Joe without turning them off, again likely due to the rioting and a few bad actors and medias contempt to change.

I suppose that at least continuing to bringing attention to this will spread the truth to more and more. So even if things have not gone great, it's still better then doing nothing.

That's pretty well said. Messaging is important but it's also really difficult to have something distinct, descriptive and something people really are going to really get behind etc. I mean what's your movement called? :)

I'm personally someone that if I'm part of an organization I want to be on the same page as much as possible. I'm willing to wait to make a decision to make the right one rather than just do something NOW. I'll also mention that I also often really dislike the committee created vision and mission statements a lot of organizations make. I do think I see more value in having them than I used to though. Having one that feels like it's isn't saying anything THAT remarkable is better than having nothing to guide the organization.

I wish we were more encouraged as individuals to be more curious for ourselves. Instead it's more like the educational system tends to just spoon feed the info with little critical thinking. This I recognize is a generalization and there are schools and individual teachers etc that are doing well in this regard.

To bring this back around to there should be some natural distrust of media. We should have some natural distrust because we know we have our own bias and perspectives So we shouldn't always trust ourselves. We can't expect someone to be completely objective and have the ability to consistently report absolute reality. NOBODY sees absolute reality all the time. So to expect that from media is actually absurd or even actually imagine. The quote below I saw in a book I was reading today and it's been attributed to a few different sources.

"You don't see the world as it is you see it as you are"

So we see the world through a lens of who we are. That's not a bad thing either we can offer something others don't see because of personality past experiences etc. That's part of why coming to this message board has value various perspectives. What hit me today is that if I don't actually know who I am I won't even know how I am seeing things. How warped could my reality be if I don't have a reasonable grasp on who I am? That's completely fascinating me again as I type it.

[mrhockey89]

Few things scare me as much as the media does today. The agendas and lack of objectivity tear apart the fiber of what this nation once was. Remember the old Soviet news agency TASS? Never thought that could happen here? Take a closer look.

The media has bias. The media has problems. The media are run by rich, powerful men. But the media are not quite the boogeymen that we're led to believe by a unrepentant, perpetual liar... to where we should be throwing out legitimate news stories because of a few questionable narratives.

The media is a problem. But it's not THE problem that we're being led to believe it is by a man who has marketed the media as such for his own self-serving ways. It's been a brilliant strategy by an absolutely genius-level branding wizard.

I used to disagree about the ultra-bias/fake news narrative until I started paying attention. When Trump originally brought it up I thought it wasn't nearly as bad as he suggested. I'm not sure if the media has gotten this much worse, or if I'm just really paying attention more now, but the media is arguably the biggest problem in America right now. If you read about the people quitting these companies, they're doing so because of the narrative that's being driven that don't allow for objective journalism. I vote about 50/50 on each side of the isle and it's really become embarrassing how CNN has been over these past few years since Trump has become President. Trump says a lot of stupid things, but what is the media's excuse? They intentionally report on the fringes because it drives ratings, but it doesn't give an accurate view of events. In fact, the very stories they choose to report on, the details that are left out, the twitter reaction culture, etc. It's not just scary, it's actually proven dangerous.

I'm going to say this, after watching part of the officer body cam video and reading the full script of what was said by all parties involved, I believe it's unlikely that officer Chauvin will be convicted on the Murder 2 charge that Ellison is charging him with. I think they'll get him on a lesser charge but the 1st autopsy combined with the series of events (he was on drugs, in shock, complaining he couldn't breathe several times before he went to the ground, requested several times by the police to get in the police car and they would open the windows and turn on the a/c. He got out and requested to be on the ground instead. He was talking to his mom (who is dead), and clearly out of it. Completely inappropriate to put the knee on the neck which is why I think they'll get him on something, but the autopsy did not show affixation and you don't convict someone on behalf of a mob, but rather "beyond a reasonable doubt". I think there's reasonable doubt that the knee is not what caused him to die. I think it will no doubt lead to more riots and people suggesting this is proof of systemic racism. I hope I'm wrong simply because I think it will continue a dangerous narrative in this country and the officer wasn't in the right, but if I'm putting my money on one vs the other, I'm saying they don't get him convicted on murder 2, and even though the media and BLM will paint it as proof or racism, it will actually just be the way criminal law has to be proven in this country, and quite frankly, rightly so (that you need beyond reasonable doubt to convict that is).

I work in health insurance and I had my reservations on the Affordable Care Act (Obamacare) but was willing to hold reservation until we had data. Now that we have data I think it doesn't work well, but I think some good ideas stemmed from it (ACOs and no pre-existing conditions, for instance). With that said, my biggest disappointment with the Obama presidency is that he didn't stick up for the men in blue when he could have. I think it was the birth of what we're seeing right now. He had background, the voice, and the power to make a real difference on this conversation. Trump doesn't have that because he is much more polarizing. His fault? Mostly, but even when he does the right thing the media won't give him credit (and I can come up with example after example if asked).

***Edit, for clarification I consider intentionally misleading stories to be fake news, even if some of the content is accurate within it.***

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

Few things scare me as much as the media does today. The agendas and lack of objectivity tear apart the fiber of what this nation once was. Remember the old Soviet news agency TASS? Never thought that could happen here? Take a closer look.

The media has bias. The media has problems. The media are run by rich, powerful men. But the media are not quite the boogeymen that we're led to believe by a unrepentant, perpetual liar... to where we should be throwing out legitimate news stories because of a few questionable narratives.

The media is a problem. But it's not THE problem that we're being led to believe it is by a man who has marketed the media as such for his own self-serving ways. It's been a brilliant strategy by an absolutely genius-level branding wizard.

I used to disagree about the ultra-bias/fake news narrative until I started paying attention. When Trump originally brought it up I thought it wasn't nearly as bad as he suggested. I'm not sure if the media has gotten this much worse, or if I'm just really paying attention more now, but the media is arguably the biggest problem in America right now. If you read about the people quitting these companies, they're doing so because of the narrative that's being driven that don't allow for objective journalism. I vote about 50/50 on each side of the isle and it's really become embarrassing how CNN has been over these past few years since Trump has become President. Trump says a lot of stupid things, but what is the media's excuse? They intentionally report on the fringes because it drives ratings, but it doesn't give an accurate view of events. In fact, the very stories they choose to report on, the details that are left out, the twitter reaction culture, etc. It's not just scary, it's actually proven dangerous.

I'm going to say this, after watching part of the officer body cam video and reading the full script of what was said by all parties involved, I believe it's unlikely that officer Chauvin will be convicted on the Murder 2 charge that Ellison is charging him with. I think they'll get him on a lesser charge but the 1st autopsy combined with the series of events (he was on drugs, in shock, complaining he couldn't breathe several times before he went to the ground, requested several times by the police to get in the police car and they would open the windows and turn on the a/c. He got out and requested to be on the ground instead. He was talking to his mom (who is dead), and clearly out of it. Completely inappropriate to put the knee on the neck which is why I think they'll get him on something, but the autopsy did not show affixation and you don't convict someone on behalf of a mob, but rather "beyond a reasonable doubt". I think there's reasonable doubt that the knee is not what caused him to die. I think it will no doubt lead to more riots and people suggesting this is proof of systemic racism. I hope I'm wrong simply because I think it will continue a dangerous narrative in this country and the officer wasn't in the right, but if I'm putting my money on one vs the other, I'm saying they don't get him convicted on murder 2, and even though the media and BLM will paint it as proof or racism, it will actually just be the way criminal law has to be proven in this country, and quite frankly, rightly so (that you need beyond reasonable doubt to convict that is).

I work in health insurance and I had my reservations on the Affordable Care Act (Obamacare) but was willing to hold reservation until we had data. Now that we have data I think it doesn't work well, but I think some good ideas stemmed from it (ACOs and no pre-existing conditions, for instance). With that said, my biggest disappointment with the Obama presidency is that he didn't stick up for the men in blue when he could have. I think it was the birth of what we're seeing right now. He had background, the voice, and the power to make a real difference on this conversation. Trump doesn't have that because he is much more polarizing. His fault? Mostly, but even when he does the right thing the media won't give him credit (and I can come up with example after example if asked).

***Edit, for clarification I consider intentionally misleading stories to be fake news, even if some of the content is accurate within it.***

This was a very good post and I agree with just about all of it. I also think that body cam footage is something everyone should watch. What actually happened is so different from what has been consistently pushed by all kinds of pundits. This is the exact reason why people should wait for the facts before jumping to their own conclusions.

[Wolvesfan21]

Monster I am not knocking BLM for their stance, but at the same time it is a myopic view of the over Justice System problem. Problem isn't even a strong enough word... disaster, incarnation, abomination, IDK, lol

The Justice System doesn't ONLY unfairly attack blacks or minorities. That is all I am getting at. Be INCLUSIVE not EXCLUSIVE. Make the pie bigger to include more people and really make REAL CHANGES.

Are you sure they are ONLY saying it unfairly treats blacks and other minorities and that's the ONLY people they hope to help with changes? I think they are looking at real changes that would Actually aim to uplift everyone. It kinda reminds me of Universal design how it's an accommodation for people with disabilities but it often benefits everyone.

I get what you are saying, however not many people dig deeper to actually pay attention to the real messaging. BLM could be seen as divisive to some, I know I have heard comments from people that say, oh those rioters that block traffic, can't stand them, etc. Yes I know the media and everyone on that side is against changing the system, I'm not sure the issues are being put forth in a concise way to the avg Joe without turning them off, again likely due to the rioting and a few bad actors and medias contempt to change.

I suppose that at least continuing to bringing attention to this will spread the truth to more and more. So even if things have not gone great, it's still better then doing nothing.

That's pretty well said. Messaging is important but it's also really difficult to have something distinct, descriptive and something people really are going to really get behind etc. I mean what's your movement called? :)

I'm personally someone that if I'm part of an organization I want to be on the same page as much as possible. I'm willing to wait to make a decision to make the right one rather than just do something NOW. I'll also mention that I also often really dislike the committee created vision and mission statements a lot of organizations make. I do think I see more value in having them than I used to though. Having one that feels like it's isn't saying anything THAT remarkable is better than having nothing to guide the organization.

I wish we were more encouraged as individuals to be more curious for ourselves. Instead it's more like the educational system tends to just spoon feed the info with little critical thinking. This I recognize is a generalization and there are schools and individual teachers etc that are doing well in this regard.

To bring this back around to there should be some natural distrust of media. We should have some natural distrust because we know we have our own bias and perspectives So we shouldn't always trust ourselves. We can't expect someone to be completely objective and have the ability to consistently report absolute reality. NOBODY sees absolute reality all the time. So to expect that from media is actually absurd or even actually imagine. The quote below I saw in a book I was reading today and it's been attributed to a few different sources.

"You don't see the world as it is you see it as you are"

So we see the world through a lens of who we are. That's not a bad thing either we can offer something others don't see because of personality past experiences etc. That's part of why coming to this message board has value various perspectives. What hit me today is that if I don't actually know who I am I won't even know how I am seeing things. How warped could my reality be if I don't have a reasonable grasp on who I am? That's completely fascinating me again as I type it.

The schooling system was largely overhauled with the "help" of the Rockefellers in the early 1900's. Largely done so people don't rise up and take his or his families wealth and power.

School is mostly making kids just smart enough to do menial jobs and be good GOV slaves. Critical thinking is squashed. Never ask questions. Memorize this, memorize that. 50 State Capitols? Why in the fuck would anyone need to know that? Common core? Complete crap! Completely useless information designed only to make subservient society that is incapable of challenging the powers that be.

If you are a good memorizer, get fully indoctrinated you get good grades, if you question why you have to memorize bullshit, you fail, you ask too many questions you get sent to the principals office.

[Wolvesfan21]

Monster as far as BLM, I think they lack true great leadership. No MLK type to follow the right path. MLK was not about rioting and shutting down freeways, you want to get as many people possible on your side as possible, not make people angry. I guess that is mostly my issues is how they are going about it, and yes certainly I know most people are not for rioting and such even those who are supporting BLM. I'm just saying no true great leader is there to follow, as far as I know.

Again I am for BLM myself just not for the tactics involved. Those rioting could be done by false flags as well though, people against BLM will discredit them by inciting the riots. Most Wars are started by false flags as well. It's how the world works.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Few things scare me as much as the media does today. The agendas and lack of objectivity tear apart the fiber of what this nation once was. Remember the old Soviet news agency TASS? Never thought that could happen here? Take a closer look.

The media has bias. The media has problems. The media are run by rich, powerful men. But the media are not quite the boogeymen that we're led to believe by a unrepentant, perpetual liar... to where we should be throwing out legitimate news stories because of a few questionable narratives.

The media is a problem. But it's not THE problem that we're being led to believe it is by a man who has marketed the media as such for his own self-serving ways. It's been a brilliant strategy by an absolutely genius-level branding wizard.

I used to disagree about the ultra-bias/fake news narrative until I started paying attention. When Trump originally brought it up I thought it wasn't nearly as bad as he suggested. I'm not sure if the media has gotten this much worse, or if I'm just really paying attention more now, but the media is arguably the biggest problem in America right now. If you read about the people quitting these companies, they're doing so because of the narrative that's being driven that don't allow for objective journalism. I vote about 50/50 on each side of the isle and it's really become embarrassing how CNN has been over these past few years since Trump has become President. Trump says a lot of stupid things, but what is the media's excuse? They intentionally report on the fringes because it drives ratings, but it doesn't give an accurate view of events. In fact, the very stories they choose to report on, the details that are left out, the twitter reaction culture, etc. It's not just scary, it's actually proven dangerous.

I'm going to say this, after watching part of the officer body cam video and reading the full script of what was said by all parties involved, I believe it's unlikely that officer Chauvin will be convicted on the Murder 2 charge that Ellison is charging him with. I think they'll get him on a lesser charge but the 1st autopsy combined with the series of events (he was on drugs, in shock, complaining he couldn't breathe several times before he went to the ground, requested several times by the police to get in the police car and they would open the windows and turn on the a/c. He got out and requested to be on the ground instead. He was talking to his mom (who is dead), and clearly out of it. Completely inappropriate to put the knee on the neck which is why I think they'll get him on something, but the autopsy did not show affixation and you don't convict someone on behalf of a mob, but rather "beyond a reasonable doubt". I think there's reasonable doubt that the knee is not what caused him to die. I think it will no doubt lead to more riots and people suggesting this is proof of systemic racism. I hope I'm wrong simply because I think it will continue a dangerous narrative in this country and the officer wasn't in the right, but if I'm putting my money on one vs the other, I'm saying they don't get him convicted on murder 2, and even though the media and BLM will paint it as proof or racism, it will actually just be the way criminal law has to be proven in this country, and quite frankly, rightly so (that you need beyond reasonable doubt to convict that is).

I work in health insurance and I had my reservations on the Affordable Care Act (Obamacare) but was willing to hold reservation until we had data. Now that we have data I think it doesn't work well, but I think some good ideas stemmed from it (ACOs and no pre-existing conditions, for instance). With that said, my biggest disappointment with the Obama presidency is that he didn't stick up for the men in blue when he could have. I think it was the birth of what we're seeing right now. He had background, the voice, and the power to make a real difference on this conversation. Trump doesn't have that because he is much more polarizing. His fault? Mostly, but even when he does the right thing the media won't give him credit (and I can come up with example after example if asked).

***Edit, for clarification I consider intentionally misleading stories to be fake news, even if some of the content is accurate within it.***

Good stuff Hockey....

I had read somewhere that a few years ago MSNBC was thinking about doing straight up news in the evening time slots, but quickly realized that ratings would tank. Since then, they have become the #1 anti-Trump/Pro-Dem cheerleader (with CNN right behind them), and have jumped up to #2 in terms of evening cable ratings (after Fox), so part of this is a reflection of what people want. People want to get confirmation and reinforcement of their own worldview and become outraged by crazy things the "other side" is doing.

[apollotsg [enjin:6592798]]

While I think Wolvesfan21 is either trolling us or a 20 year old kid reading from a conspiracy website, but I wanted to comment on some of the board interactions.

He states (this is not verbatim) that a major overhaul is needed - the same people that said black people should be universally treated differently because their CULTURE is bad told Wolvesfan that maybe he should relocate to another country.

I think this is the fundamental point in this entire argument all played out there. People like X and Y (I won't point them out) feel the preamble of the US Constitution is being achieved for THEM personally, therefore they are conservative (no change or regression) - and they fear change because it may disrupt their American dream. See - the problem is that not everyone in this country can say the preamble of the constitution is being met for THEM, so the contract they are being given at birth is in breach - they would like the same things, this is their exact message. Time and time again it has been proven that the people in charge had bad motives in creating and enforcing laws that disproportionately impacted groups of people in our society. The CULTURE people do not want to look at the WHY laws were created and would rather continue on and pretend its all fake news. They speak of media bias as if causing harm to a group of people should have two sides.

Instead of saying "gee whiz, that sucks, let's get you guys over here with us and make this an equal country" we say things like, their culture is bad, they are thugs, slavery wasn't that bad, they should work harder, I see "them" driving nice cars - fuck them. Go back to your country... Maybe YOU need to go back to where ever the hell your people came from. Just maybe wolvesfan should stay and YOU need to leave. Maybe your shitty view of us vs them means YOU need to leave and wolvesfan should stay, he hasn't said anything about hurting his neighbors, YOU have, YOU are the problem. When YOU go through the rationalization of killing someone and whether or not they will "get him" as if he somehow he didn't slowly, purposely kill him (over a fake 20 bill). See, I spent a big portion of my life in places where assholes hurt other people because they don't have stars on their bellies, it is heartbreaking to see it in my country and your dam right I get pissed off when I see disgusting acts and comments.

We literally just had a board member run through some strange gyrations to minimize a person in a position of trust take everything away from a fellow citizen over possibly committing a petty crime and another poster join in a cheer on his take - like it was a great thing. Its the same shit I have seen in corrupt shitholes around the world where assholes run the show and use death and oppression to rule - tell you what, I will buy both of you a plane ticket to get you to move somewhere YOU belong, go advocate for the harm of others there.

I realize our constitution is a one-way contract, but if you can't resist in interfering with that pursuit by others to achieve that - then YOU are the problem - period.

BLM
You may not understand this, but BLM does not have a central power structure that controls any of the movement - it's literally a collection of local movements into one national group. No one person or even city controls the movement - this is by design to temper extremism and perversion of the movement. This is a result of "them" being used as a prop by politicians in the past. This does open the movement up to the CULTURE people latching on to the fringe elements and paint the entire movement as extreme. You can actually see this throughout this thread.

Thin Blue Lie
My friends are cops, my brother is a St Paul cop, my best friend is a cop, I train with cops. I know a bunch of cops. I actually know people connected to other incidents - they are pieces of shit. It's all a fucking lie. It hurts to say that but they are all jackasses, this zero accountability thing is just so ingrained into them, they have been running around giving braveheart speeches during this unrest as if they are the only thing holding our society together, and they are so wrong. To them everyone is a dirty thug and guilty from the get-go, it's all about "getting them" and it needs to change.

I think each of you CULTURE people should go do a ride-along, you will fit right in with them driving around getting THEM.

Maybe you could take five minutes and do a mental exercise and consider what it would look like if what you held as a truth was all bullshit - run that through your head and consider the ramifications.

[bleedspeed]

The schooling system was largely overhauled with the "help" of the Rockefellers in the early 1900's. Largely done so people don't rise up and take his or his families wealth and power.

School is mostly making kids just smart enough to do menial jobs and be good GOV slaves. Critical thinking is squashed. Never ask questions. Memorize this, memorize that. 50 State Capitols? Why in the fuck would anyone need to know that? Common core? Complete crap! Completely useless information designed only to make subservient society that is incapable of challenging the powers that be.

If you are a good memorizer, get fully indoctrinated you get good grades, if you question why you have to memorize bullshit, you fail, you ask too many questions you get sent to the principals office.

School is here to give you some foundations and teach you the process of learning. The information you learn, might not be important, but the process is very viable. The school system in general needs to be overhauled post-elementary, but nowhere as bad as you make it seem. You have to learn to play the game of life somewhere. It is a lot about how you carry yourself and project your thoughts that matter.
It seems the people that have humble begins that learn drive, desire, and ability to overcome obstacles are the ones that have the true advantage. The opportunities in this country are amazing for all.