Kat good as gone

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

I'm not ready to put 7-10 on Cool's list firmly above the Wolves just yet. I need to see how the rest of the off-season goes and who else they add to this bunch. I also think he might be giving too much credit to some of those teams, namely the Grizzlies, Pelicans, and Warriors. The first two have proven nothing yet and the Kevin Durant-less Warriors are a bad basketball team even with Klay Thompson coming back.

What about Curry and Green? Did I miss something? Are they not coming back?

Besides their 3 vets yeah they are fairly bare, Wiggins is a nicer 4th option then 1st though. I see the Warriors as being top 4 unless these top guys are permanently disabled.

Draymond Green is a shell of himself. His game has progressively declined every season since 2017 and at 31-years old when the season starts I don't expect him to start turning things around.

Steph Curry is a great talent, but he's not the MVP-caliber player he was a handful of seasons ago. Nobody was impacted more by Kevin Durant's departure than him as he now finds himself in a position where he needs to lift his teammates beyond their capabilities and I don't think he can manage that anymore. The Warriors, as it stands right now, have four NBA players and a group of moving parts. That's not enough. And as for Andrew Wiggins, he has even more incentive to hide in the corner since he's not expected to do any heavy lifting for that team. I would be incredibly surprised if they were in the top-four next season and instead I expect them to be fighting for the eighth seed with a handful of other teams.

Was Draymond even trying though, especially last season? The guy has been competing for chips every year and found himself alone basically with DLO as a tanking team. Can their top 3 duo all come back and be most of what they were a few years ago? That is probably unlikely. They are 12/1 in Vegas odds to win it all. I still wouldn't bet against them winning 50-55 games.

Was Draymond Green just not trying the last couple years? His production, or lack thereof, extends beyond last season. I don't think he's a below average player or anything like that, but he's a far cry from the franchise pillar he perhaps once was.

I just don't see it myself. I think they lack NBA quality depth at every position and their key players are past their primes. Klay Thompson is coming off of a serious injury as well, though I expect him to be fully recovered and quite good.

Golden State already had depth issues the last year Kevin Durant was on the roster and they've since lost him and Andre Iguodala while adding Andrew Wiggins and journeyman types. They're capped out and have only their draft pick(s) and a sizable trade exception to make the roster better. Unless someone gifts them with multiple role players or another All-Star, I see them being near the bottom of the Western Conference.

I'm curious why you think the greatest shooter of all-time is gonna drop off at 32-33 years old? He's elite at the one skill that never ages in the league and he can do it off the dribble from half court and in with ease. There's never going to be a point where you can play off him so he will always provide the most spacing in the league for his teammates. He seemingly has the best skillset to age for his position. If CP3 can still play at a high level into his mid 30's I see no reason Steph can't do the same. I agree they lack depth, but they have the ability to just shoot you off the floor and never really play high minutes in the regular season because of their ability to blow you out.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Here"s an excerpt from a blog that provides some much-needed factual context and common sense to cool down the hyperbolic reaction to Wolfson's ridiculous report:

"The combination of Towns not being in the Twin Cities with D'Angelo Russell and the rest of his teammates and this rumor are certainly not a great look.

That said, the following are also facts: Towns was with his teammates just last week doing individual workouts, coming in at 6 a.m. and leading the charge, per head coach Ryan Saunders and teammate Malik Beasley's Instagram. Also, Towns is under contract until 2024, and the Wolves just acquired one of his best friends. The duo has played only one game together.

There's also the extreme, gossipy nature of the rumor. While TMZ was busy reporting on Towns' whereabouts, it would be fair to expect a rumor like this to come from them, and not a legitimate reporter.

Let's trace this backward: the agent of a draft prospect talked to a "very good" NBA player in Los Angeles this week and heard that Karl-Anthony Towns was "as good as gone". We're now at least four steps removed from the source.

Even the best game of Telephone ever played would be distorted beyond recognition at this stage in the line."

It's not the Doogie rumor that concerns me. It's his actions.

The fact is, KAT has been a weak leader all along, whether it's not bothering to improve his game defensively or allowing himself to get bullied on or off the court. His stock has fallen big-time because of it.

He's done nothing to help set the tone for next year with this little escapade.

[Monster]

To me what Wolfson lacks is knowing when to report stuff he hears. I'm sure he reports mostly legit stuff but sometimes it's a good idea to not say stuff unless it's really legit. If you listen to Jon K's podcast it's pretty clear he holds back quite a bit of info and that doesn't mean he knows everything though.

As for Towns actually being gone...it wouldn't be that shocking. I'd guess he isn't gonna force his way out for a season but...if this franchise doesn't do something amazing why should he stay? On the other hand maybe he sees this as a good time to say let me out get me to another team while the Wolves have a #1 overall pick to build around and be excited about etc. I've wondered if Towns would eventually go a different direction. Durant used to the nicest dude or whatever and I'm some ways he is a villain now and kinda seems to enjoy it...and is also insecure too based on his burner accounts. Lol Honestly Towns could end up doing the Wolves a favor asking out a year earlier. I think this roster is heading in the right direction but unless they really hit on a few things it still feels like especially with the pandemic looming...it could be another 2 years till this thing takes off. Towns turns 25 in November. How long is he supposed to wait? It would suck if he asked out and I think it would be a little disloyal but if he doesn't really believe this team is going to go where he wants to go I'd understand why.

The question now is...do you sell out a bit to keep him or do you take offers and see how high the price is? The Pelicans are flush with young players and assets. We don't have a Zion or even a Jrue Holiday but I think the Wolves could build something interesting moving Towns and building with everything else they have. There are some smart basketball folks that aren't convinced Towns can be the guy here. It's a fair question.

Regardless Rosas and his group has some hard work tough decisions ahead of them. If Towns doesn't want out now...the clock will be ticking eventually. Competence from this front office would be big regardless of how this all plays out. We are probably gonna hear some Towns rumors going forward (whether they are legit or what their potives are). So my advice is buckle up and get used to it and honestly I don't see a huge downside either way. The return for him will be massive.

[WildWolf2813]

A friend of mine said that his cousin who went to high school with a girl that hooked up with Giannis Antetokounmpo ...

My best friend's sister's boyfriend's brother's girlfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid who's going with the girl who saw Ferris pass out at 31 Flavors last night. I guess it's pretty serious.

---

But let's say the KAT rumors are true. Why would anybody be surprised?

- Worst NBA franchise. Ever.
- Cold city. Very low on the list of preferred NBA cities among players.
- No ties to city.
- Losing team. Long rebuild.
- A lot of national criticism.
- New generation of player and brand marketer.
- An organization that took Jimmy Butler's side during the saga where Butler sabotaged an entire season... effectively throwing Towns under the bus.

I think most (all?) of us love loyalty. I know I lament the lack of it in the current NBA. But of all players... in all cities... why would Towns choose to stay in Minnesota if he didn't have to?

It's actually more unlikely that he'd want to stay at this point and that there wasn't juice behind this rumor.

I agree. Until there is real teeth in the CBA to incentivizing players to stay in small markets our expectation should be that these players want to leave and that players wanting to stay on our team is the exception to the rule.

The greatest problem with the NBA is the Max salaries. Why is LeBron James in the Finals pretty much every year? Because he is UNDERPAID severely. He should be making double of what he is currently if not more. Then LA cannot sign/trade for AD. Or LeBron leaves 100's of millions on the table to chase rings. That's a hard thing to give up.

We will continue to see top players join forces and win because the system is broken and does not allow free market competition. Salary cap is fine, but limits is not. You get superteam after superteam and I am sick of it!!!

I just had an idea that I think could solve some of this. That teams could offer signing bonuses at an unlimited, negotiated amount, to players that they drafted that could only be collected when and if a player completes their contract with a team. It would likely erase all of these preemptive trade demands.

You'd be guaranteeing that teams sign superstars to minimum deals and pay them under the table through third parties.

[WildWolf2813]

I'm not ready to put 7-10 on Cool's list firmly above the Wolves just yet. I need to see how the rest of the off-season goes and who else they add to this bunch. I also think he might be giving too much credit to some of those teams, namely the Grizzlies, Pelicans, and Warriors. The first two have proven nothing yet and the Kevin Durant-less Warriors are a bad basketball team even with Klay Thompson coming back.

What about Curry and Green? Did I miss something? Are they not coming back?

Besides their 3 vets yeah they are fairly bare, Wiggins is a nicer 4th option then 1st though. I see the Warriors as being top 4 unless these top guys are permanently disabled.

Draymond Green is a shell of himself. His game has progressively declined every season since 2017 and at 31-years old when the season starts I don't expect him to start turning things around.

Steph Curry is a great talent, but he's not the MVP-caliber player he was a handful of seasons ago. Nobody was impacted more by Kevin Durant's departure than him as he now finds himself in a position where he needs to lift his teammates beyond their capabilities and I don't think he can manage that anymore. The Warriors, as it stands right now, have four NBA players and a group of moving parts. That's not enough. And as for Andrew Wiggins, he has even more incentive to hide in the corner since he's not expected to do any heavy lifting for that team. I would be incredibly surprised if they were in the top-four next season and instead I expect them to be fighting for the eighth seed with a handful of other teams.

Was Draymond even trying though, especially last season? The guy has been competing for chips every year and found himself alone basically with DLO as a tanking team. Can their top 3 duo all come back and be most of what they were a few years ago? That is probably unlikely. They are 12/1 in Vegas odds to win it all. I still wouldn't bet against them winning 50-55 games.

Was Draymond Green just not trying the last couple years? His production, or lack thereof, extends beyond last season. I don't think he's a below average player or anything like that, but he's a far cry from the franchise pillar he perhaps once was.

I just don't see it myself. I think they lack NBA quality depth at every position and their key players are past their primes. Klay Thompson is coming off of a serious injury as well, though I expect him to be fully recovered and quite good.

Golden State already had depth issues the last year Kevin Durant was on the roster and they've since lost him and Andre Iguodala while adding Andrew Wiggins and journeyman types. They're capped out and have only their draft pick(s) and a sizable trade exception to make the roster better. Unless someone gifts them with multiple role players or another All-Star, I see them being near the bottom of the Western Conference.

Well they do have an all-rookie first teamer in Paschall there and they have the #2 pick in the draft, so they'll have young talent coming in along with who they could add via free agency.

[WildWolf2813]

Here"s an excerpt from a blog that provides some much-needed factual context and common sense to cool down the hyperbolic reaction to Wolfson's ridiculous report:

"The combination of Towns not being in the Twin Cities with D'Angelo Russell and the rest of his teammates and this rumor are certainly not a great look.

That said, the following are also facts: Towns was with his teammates just last week doing individual workouts, coming in at 6 a.m. and leading the charge, per head coach Ryan Saunders and teammate Malik Beasley's Instagram. Also, Towns is under contract until 2024, and the Wolves just acquired one of his best friends. The duo has played only one game together.

There's also the extreme, gossipy nature of the rumor. While TMZ was busy reporting on Towns' whereabouts, it would be fair to expect a rumor like this to come from them, and not a legitimate reporter.

Let's trace this backward: the agent of a draft prospect talked to a "very good" NBA player in Los Angeles this week and heard that Karl-Anthony Towns was "as good as gone". We're now at least four steps removed from the source.

Even the best game of Telephone ever played would be distorted beyond recognition at this stage in the line."

It's not the Doogie rumor that concerns me. It's his actions.

The fact is, KAT has been a weak leader all along, whether it's not bothering to improve his game defensively or allowing himself to get bullied on or off the court. His stock has fallen big-time because of it.

He's done nothing to help set the tone for next year with this little escapade.

So because he was absent for workouts in late September for a season that won't start til January, he's a bad leader?

Have we not learned ANYTHING from the Bahamas team bonding trip last year? Nothing he can do right now matters. If there was footage of him swatting every shot that came in the paint, you'd feel better? If he was practicing Muay Thai, you'd feel better? I think he knows he has a reputation in the gutter. I hope he knows that the only way to restore his name is to do it during the season. Anything else is meaningless.

[Lipoli390]

I guess this thread is as good as any for some thoughts on Towns. The Wolfson rumor has surfaced two underlying sentiments among Wolves fans. One is the underlying dislike of Towns and inclination to move him even if he doesn't want out. The other is the underlying paranoia that just about any really good Wolves player will eventually want out. With those underlying sentiments in mind. I'll share my thoughts on two issues: (1) whether we should trade Towns no matter what based on the believe that we can't become a contender with him and DLO as our two top players; and (2) what we should do if Towns really does want out.

WHETHER WE SHOULD TRADE TOWNS BECAUSE WE CAN'T WIN WITH HIM AND DLO

I think it would be a major mistake to trade Towns unless he truly wants out. I get some of the impatience with Towns based on his poor defense and failure to improve significantly in that area. And I agree he can be annoyingly whiny and has failed to show true leadership. I also understand the doubts about DLO, including his poor defense and maturity issues. In fact, I lean closer to Cool's view than Cam's view of him. But Denver has shown us that you can not only make the playoffs but become a top 4 Western Conference teams and title contender led an offensively gifted but poor defensive C/PG combination. And in spite of all the negatives, Towns and DLO are highly talented players. So let's take a step back for a second and look at both players.

Towns is an elite unicorn on the offensive side of the ball. And it's not just the fact that he's averaged nearly 23 points per game, including over 26 points this past season, before even reaching the age of 25. He is a rare big man who's an elite low post scorer AND a top 3-point shooter. In addition to his elite scoring prowess, he's been an elite rebounder, averaging nearly 12 boards per game in his 5 NBA seasons. Note also that, except for last season, he's been an iron man, playing all 82 games each of his first 3 seasons and 77 games in his 4th. Beyond all of that, he has tremendous untapped offensive potential as a passer. This is a guy who won the NBA skills competition as a rookie. If you want to take note of his passing potential, look back at last season's home game against the Clippers shortly after the trade-deadline deals. He had 10 assists in that game and our second best player, Russell wasn't even in the game. If the box score isn't enough for you, re-watch the game as I did last month. He consistently made the right passes on the right reads and made some really terrific Jokic-like passes. The potential is absolutely there. He just hasn't had the teammates or coaches to bring that part of his game out. As for his defense, I don't see him becoming a top defender, but I can see him improving and perhaps becoming an average one. He's ready averaging 1.5 blocks per game, which puts him among the better shot-blockers in the NBA. He doesn't have to improve a lot defensively if surrounded by the right players and with the right coaching.

As for DLO, let's not forget he was the 2nd pick in the 2015 draft and most draft analysts thought he was worth of that pick. The situation he was thrown into in LA as a rookie was extraordinarily difficult and not conducive to the development of a rookie. Since then, he has clearly improved to the point where he was selected to the all-star team his last season with the Nets.

WHAT IF TOWNS REALLY WANTS OUT

If Towns really wants out, it tells me he's the mental marshmallow that Jimmy Butler essentially told us he was. This organization has done everything they can to please him, from letting Butler go to trading for his close friend DLO and everything in between. Nonetheless, if he wants out, the Wolves will have to accommodate him for the sake of the team. But if I were Rosas, I'd move him on my own terms and my own time table. He's locked up for the next 4 years and I'd take as many of those years as needed to optimize the return even though it probably makes sense to move him sooner rather than later. One thought is that we might want to keep him through this upcoming season to avoid bottoming out in the season when we don't have our first round pick. I'd hate to finish last in League only to help enhance the draft position of the Warriors.

If we move KAT, it will have to be the beginning of another rebuild. And as frustrating as that sounds, this might be the right time for that. We have a nearly new front office team and we're about to have brand new ownership. This upcoming season will be a strange one with the start delayed at least 3 months and the potential for games in empty or near-empty arenas. It will sort of be a lost or forgotten season. The good news about a rebuild is that KAT will bring a huge return. Moreover, having traded for Russell specifically to team with Towns, I would look to move both Russell and Towns. While Russell won't bring the bounty we'll likely get for Towns, he has some and his value would be potentially enhanced if shopped as a package with Towns.

I don't have a lot of thoughts about deals we should pursue for Towns and/or DLO. But I'd start with a call to the Knicks and I'd propose a trade that included both Towns and DLO. The players and assets I'd be interested in would be RJ Barrett, Mitchell Robinson, Bobby Portis, Julius Randle, their #8 pick in this years's draft, their 2021 first round pick (unprotected), the 2021 Dallas first round pick they own, and the 2021 Charlotte 2nd round pick. I'm not proposing this as a deal, but somewhere in that list of assets I can see a realistic deal that would provide a nice start to Minnesota's rebuilding process. A Towns/DLO tandem would instantly make the Knicks a potential playoff team in the East. Moreover, it would instantly make them relevant again and that has a lot of value for Dolan.

But again, I don't believe the rumor about Towns wanting out. Therefore, I don't see any point in trying to move Towns.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Are we really arguing that the Warriors aren't very good? (possibly not even a top 10 Western Conference team???)

All because Kevin Durant left?

[thedoper]

Are we really arguing that the Warriors aren't very good? (possibly not even a top 10 Western Conference team???)

All because Kevin Durant left?

Yeah this was definitely one of the more hot takes of this thread. I can't see how they arent at least 4 or 5 in the west next year.

[BizarroJerry [enjin:6592520]]

Are we really arguing that the Warriors aren't very good? (possibly not even a top 10 Western Conference team???)

All because Kevin Durant left?

Yeah this was definitely one of the more hot takes of this thread. I can't see how they arent at least 4 or 5 in the west next year.

Plus they have a motivated Wiggins who's gonna be the mvp next year!