Page 6 of 7
Re: Harrell's comments directed at Luka
Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2020 4:31 pm
by Camden [enjin:6601484]
I don't do this often, but I agree with Cool here. The use of intimidation and terrorism -- yes, terrorism -- is beyond reckless and evades any sense of morality. That goes double when it's used in force against the innocent. I cannot and will not support the Black Lives Matter movement for the real premise it operates under: destroying the nuclear family and the traditional values of this country. Black lives matter, but the movement is buffoonery.
These rioters -- note that I am NOT criticizing the peaceful protesters that do exist even though I disagree with their movement -- have taken their frustrations out illegally and violently against citizens that played no part in any wrongdoing. Even worse is that they are not being held accountable for their actions, but instead being encouraged by liberal government and the mainstream media. That combination -- wrongdoers plus media encouragement -- has created an immovable object at this point. We have millions of emotional people of multiple races acting without a conscience. When does it end? How does it end? Will the other side push back? Will they push back quietly or with force? At the end of this there will be many unfortunate outcomes and no real growth for any populace. Just more destruction.
Re: Harrell's comments directed at Luka
Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2020 4:35 pm
by TAFKASP
BizarroJerry wrote:Absolutely agree Doper. False equivalency by a long shot. Let's also not forget the US soldiers that fought in WWII were anti-fascists, antifa, as they're so affectionately called by conservatives.
So Antifa calling themselves anti-fascists while using fascist tactics doesn't make them fascists? Pretending Antifa are a well intentioned group of people because they call themselves anti-fascists is like saying it wasn't rape because the rapist said he was making love to his victim.
I cannot get over how many people are willing to stick their heads in the sand and accept that this group of anarchists are working for good even though their actions are violent, but hey, they call themselves anti-fascists so we'll look the other way.
Re: Harrell's comments directed at Luka
Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2020 4:40 pm
by TAFKASP
thedoper wrote:CoolBreeze44 wrote:thedoper wrote:CoolBreeze44 wrote:thedoper wrote:CoolBreeze44 wrote:thedoper wrote:CoolBreeze44 wrote:thedoper wrote:mrhockey89 wrote:Cool, you're in Portland? Sorry to hear given the climate there.
doper, like the others said, it's about consistency. Like Q said, if you replace the word "white" with "black" and reverse who is saying it, I think we all know it would have been front page news in the NBA for a while, and would have been called out as super racist, not even using the slang term that you were originally suggesting.
I don't think any of us care too much about the term white boy, but we also agree that the intent is to be condescending, and it's a race-based condescending term. If we've learned anything in 2020, it doesn't have to be the majority that are offended by something, it can be the minority. As others mentioned, the Adams comment was years ago when we were in a different world as it pertains to political correctness on words.
On China the NBA definitely shows themselves to be total hypocrites. From the Hong Kong incident to the NBA China training academies where abuse of young children was taking place, the NBA not only didn't take a firm stance condemning it, but also tried to quiet the reporters reporting about it. They don't want bad press. It's all about the money, as always. It's also much of the reason I haven't watched a minute of playoff basketball this season.
I guess overall my expectation is that the NBA should be either taking a proactive stance as they pretend they are, and make sure they're applying their stance equally across all creeds or take a passive stance and avoid the topic altogether and let the players talk their trash and not dramamaticize every moment.
I get it. Its outrage about hypothetical consistency.
I'm thankful that most white players in the nba understand that language has context and typically dont make racial slurs. Like I already said, Im not going to get angry about a scenario that could potentially happen to a white player. I think that is a silly, make believe, straw man position. There is no politically correct boogeyman coming to strip white males of their rights.
With the violent intimidation tactics being used by some BLM activists I wouldn't be so sure. Familiarize yourself with 1930's Berlin and learn how the brownshirts were a precursor to the Nazi's rise to power. Some of the stuff I'm seeing today looks awfully familiar to what happened back then. The Germans never thought it could happen in their country either.
Wow cool. Please don't equate BLM with Nazi's at least to me. I am very familiar with 1930s Berlin. I lost much of my family in the Holocaust and definitely believe it cheapens any real debate about what is going on in the US right now to make any parallel to either side of US politics and one of the great evils of history. BLM definitely has challenging elements, but I think you are showing a tact and any real knowledge of history by trying to equate the real struggle of blacks as a minority at present to the white majority in Berlin blaming Jews for their economic hardship.
I'm not equating the real struggle of African Americans to anything. It's real and change is needed. I fully support the concept of BLM. What I have a problem with is certain parts of the movement. When i see innocent people being intimidated, threatened, and in many cases harmed, that's what i have a problem with. Some of these tactics are nearly exactly what the stormtroopers used when they were running around Germany strong arming people. And I'm not saying they are Nazi-like, I specifically said the brownshirts who were a precursor to the Nazi regime.
Please don't double down on your mistake. With the brownshirts it wasn't "certain parts of the movement" the whole movement was dedicated to terror, racism, and evil. The bad apples of BLM don't represent the movement as a whole and therefore any comparison to them and the Brownshirts is as stupid as comparing police in the USA to Brownshirts because of bad cops.
Doper, you're one of my favorite posters on this site. But you're crossing the line a bit there. Disagreeing with you doesn't mean I'm stupid or have made a mistake. I specifically told you what i had a problem with. I didn't generalize it into the whole movement. I said certain factions were using tactics that are very similar to what happened in Berlin. You're demonstrating some of the ignorance you're accusing me of.
No you did make a mistake. See my added edit to my previous post. Brownshirts were Nazis. They were created by the Nazi party. I don't think you're stupid. I think that drawing a line from Nazis to BLM is a stupid thing to do. We all have made mistakes like you are now. Feel free to correct yourself if you want. But calling me ignorant because of your pride isn't going to change anything.
Oh my goodness. No matter what I say, the fact you're convinced I'm equating BLM to Nazi Germany is going to get us no where. I'm not going to try and explain myself again, but to be clear, that is not what I was doing.
Here is what I do believe. An ignorant population is the DNC's greatest asset.
Cool you started this saying I should study history of the 1930s where you said Brownshirts were a precursor to Nazis. This is an incorrect telling of history and the premise for your position is based on false information. Brownshirts were Nazi's party members, formed by the official Nazi party in 1922. So whether you knowingly did it or not or intended to do it, you made a comparison to the behavior of people in BLM to Nazis. I told you that doing that is not cool, then you tried to double down and reiterated the false fact that Brownshirts were precursors to Nazis. You were the one insinuating that I should study history from the beginning. Again, bringing up Nazis in a discussion about BLM in any sort of comparative fashion is not cool in my opinion. You can bring up the challenges of BLM without talking about Nazis, especially if the historical information you are using to make your point is inaccurate.
I'm glad you weren't trying to equate BLM to Nazi's, but perhaps your language and historical research could have been a bit better presented so that you weren't so easy to misinterpret?
I'm curious, have you looked at the goals of the organization known as Black Lives Matter? I agree that the lives of black people matter no differently than the lives of other non-black people, but I disagree almost completely with the goals of the organization that uses that name.
BLM and Antifa are to groups that get a pass because nobody in their right mind thinks that black lives don't matter, or that fascism is a good, not because they actually do anything positive for black people, or are even trying to do so.
Re: Harrell's comments directed at Luka
Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2020 4:47 pm
by AbeVigodaLive
Black Lives Matter:
Four years ago, what is now known as the Black Lives Matter Global Network began to organize. It started out as a chapter-based, member-led organization whose mission was to build local power and to intervene when violence was inflicted on Black communities by the state and vigilantes.
In the years since, we've committed to struggling together and to imagining and creating a world free of anti-Blackness, where every Black person has the social, economic, and political power to thrive.
Black Lives Matter began as a call to action in response to state-sanctioned violence and anti-Black racism. Our intention from the very beginning was to connect Black people from all over the world who have a shared desire for justice to act together in their communities. The impetus for that commitment was, and still is, the rampant and deliberate violence inflicted on us by the state.
Enraged by the death of Trayvon Martin and the subsequent acquittal of his killer, George Zimmerman, and inspired by the 31-day takeover of the Florida State Capitol by POWER U and the Dream Defenders, we took to the streets. A year later, we set out together on the Black Lives Matter Freedom Ride to Ferguson, in search of justice for Mike Brown and all of those who have been torn apart by state-sanctioned violence and anti-Black racism. Forever changed, we returned home and began building the infrastructure for the Black Lives Matter Global Network, which, even in its infancy, has become a political home for many.
Ferguson helped to catalyze a movement to which we've all helped give life. Organizers who call this network home have ousted anti-Black politicians, won critical legislation to benefit Black lives, and changed the terms of the debate on Blackness around the world. Through movement and relationship building, we have also helped catalyze other movements and shifted culture with an eye toward the dangerous impacts of anti-Blackness.
These are the results of our collective efforts.
The Black Lives Matter Global Network is as powerful as it is because of our membership, our partners, our supporters, our staff, and you. Our continued commitment to liberation for all Black people means we are continuing the work of our ancestors and fighting for our collective freedom because it is our duty.
Every day, we recommit to healing ourselves and each other, and to co-creating alongside comrades, allies, and family a culture where each person feels seen, heard, and supported.
We acknowledge, respect, and celebrate differences and commonalities.
We work vigorously for freedom and justice for Black people and, by extension, all people.
We intentionally build and nurture a beloved community that is bonded together through a beautiful struggle that is restorative, not depleting.
We are unapologetically Black in our positioning. In affirming that Black Lives Matter, we need not qualify our position. To love and desire freedom and justice for ourselves is a prerequisite for wanting the same for others.
We see ourselves as part of the global Black family, and we are aware of the different ways we are impacted or privileged as Black people who exist in different parts of the world.
We are guided by the fact that all Black lives matter, regardless of actual or perceived sexual identity, gender identity, gender expression, economic status, ability, disability, religious beliefs or disbeliefs, immigration status, or location.
We make space for transgender brothers and sisters to participate and lead.
We are self-reflexive and do the work required to dismantle cisgender privilege and uplift Black trans folk, especially Black trans women who continue to be disproportionately impacted by trans-antagonistic violence.
We build a space that affirms Black women and is free from sexism, misogyny, and environments in which men are centered.
We practice empathy. We engage comrades with the intent to learn about and connect with their contexts.
We make our spaces family-friendly and enable parents to fully participate with their children. We dismantle the patriarchal practice that requires mothers to work "double shifts" so that they can mother in private even as they participate in public justice work.
We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and "villages" that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable.
We foster a queer-affirming network. When we gather, we do so with the intention of freeing ourselves from the tight grip of heteronormative thinking, or rather, the belief that all in the world are heterosexual (unless s/he or they disclose otherwise).
We cultivate an intergenerational and communal network free from ageism. We believe that all people, regardless of age, show up with the capacity to lead and learn.
We embody and practice justice, liberation, and peace in our engagements with one another.
____
The rub is that it seems to be a rather loosely organized movement more than any tangible tiered organization... and obviously, that can lead to a difference of opinion or tactics or motivations within the movement itself.
I have problems with it.
But I have many more problems with the strawman equating something like BLM as an entire movement with the holocaust. Why go there?
There must be better, less incendiary and more accurate "connections" we can make than that strawman. Yuck.
Re: Harrell's comments directed at Luka
Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2020 4:48 pm
by thedoper
TheSP wrote:thedoper wrote:CoolBreeze44 wrote:thedoper wrote:CoolBreeze44 wrote:thedoper wrote:CoolBreeze44 wrote:thedoper wrote:CoolBreeze44 wrote:thedoper wrote:mrhockey89 wrote:Cool, you're in Portland? Sorry to hear given the climate there.
doper, like the others said, it's about consistency. Like Q said, if you replace the word "white" with "black" and reverse who is saying it, I think we all know it would have been front page news in the NBA for a while, and would have been called out as super racist, not even using the slang term that you were originally suggesting.
I don't think any of us care too much about the term white boy, but we also agree that the intent is to be condescending, and it's a race-based condescending term. If we've learned anything in 2020, it doesn't have to be the majority that are offended by something, it can be the minority. As others mentioned, the Adams comment was years ago when we were in a different world as it pertains to political correctness on words.
On China the NBA definitely shows themselves to be total hypocrites. From the Hong Kong incident to the NBA China training academies where abuse of young children was taking place, the NBA not only didn't take a firm stance condemning it, but also tried to quiet the reporters reporting about it. They don't want bad press. It's all about the money, as always. It's also much of the reason I haven't watched a minute of playoff basketball this season.
I guess overall my expectation is that the NBA should be either taking a proactive stance as they pretend they are, and make sure they're applying their stance equally across all creeds or take a passive stance and avoid the topic altogether and let the players talk their trash and not dramamaticize every moment.
I get it. Its outrage about hypothetical consistency.
I'm thankful that most white players in the nba understand that language has context and typically dont make racial slurs. Like I already said, Im not going to get angry about a scenario that could potentially happen to a white player. I think that is a silly, make believe, straw man position. There is no politically correct boogeyman coming to strip white males of their rights.
With the violent intimidation tactics being used by some BLM activists I wouldn't be so sure. Familiarize yourself with 1930's Berlin and learn how the brownshirts were a precursor to the Nazi's rise to power. Some of the stuff I'm seeing today looks awfully familiar to what happened back then. The Germans never thought it could happen in their country either.
Wow cool. Please don't equate BLM with Nazi's at least to me. I am very familiar with 1930s Berlin. I lost much of my family in the Holocaust and definitely believe it cheapens any real debate about what is going on in the US right now to make any parallel to either side of US politics and one of the great evils of history. BLM definitely has challenging elements, but I think you are showing a tact and any real knowledge of history by trying to equate the real struggle of blacks as a minority at present to the white majority in Berlin blaming Jews for their economic hardship.
I'm not equating the real struggle of African Americans to anything. It's real and change is needed. I fully support the concept of BLM. What I have a problem with is certain parts of the movement. When i see innocent people being intimidated, threatened, and in many cases harmed, that's what i have a problem with. Some of these tactics are nearly exactly what the stormtroopers used when they were running around Germany strong arming people. And I'm not saying they are Nazi-like, I specifically said the brownshirts who were a precursor to the Nazi regime.
Please don't double down on your mistake. With the brownshirts it wasn't "certain parts of the movement" the whole movement was dedicated to terror, racism, and evil. The bad apples of BLM don't represent the movement as a whole and therefore any comparison to them and the Brownshirts is as stupid as comparing police in the USA to Brownshirts because of bad cops.
Doper, you're one of my favorite posters on this site. But you're crossing the line a bit there. Disagreeing with you doesn't mean I'm stupid or have made a mistake. I specifically told you what i had a problem with. I didn't generalize it into the whole movement. I said certain factions were using tactics that are very similar to what happened in Berlin. You're demonstrating some of the ignorance you're accusing me of.
No you did make a mistake. See my added edit to my previous post. Brownshirts were Nazis. They were created by the Nazi party. I don't think you're stupid. I think that drawing a line from Nazis to BLM is a stupid thing to do. We all have made mistakes like you are now. Feel free to correct yourself if you want. But calling me ignorant because of your pride isn't going to change anything.
Oh my goodness. No matter what I say, the fact you're convinced I'm equating BLM to Nazi Germany is going to get us no where. I'm not going to try and explain myself again, but to be clear, that is not what I was doing.
Here is what I do believe. An ignorant population is the DNC's greatest asset.
Cool you started this saying I should study history of the 1930s where you said Brownshirts were a precursor to Nazis. This is an incorrect telling of history and the premise for your position is based on false information. Brownshirts were Nazi's party members, formed by the official Nazi party in 1922. So whether you knowingly did it or not or intended to do it, you made a comparison to the behavior of people in BLM to Nazis. I told you that doing that is not cool, then you tried to double down and reiterated the false fact that Brownshirts were precursors to Nazis. You were the one insinuating that I should study history from the beginning. Again, bringing up Nazis in a discussion about BLM in any sort of comparative fashion is not cool in my opinion. You can bring up the challenges of BLM without talking about Nazis, especially if the historical information you are using to make your point is inaccurate.
I'm glad you weren't trying to equate BLM to Nazi's, but perhaps your language and historical research could have been a bit better presented so that you weren't so easy to misinterpret?
I'm curious, have you looked at the goals of the organization known as Black Lives Matter? I agree that the lives of black people matter no differently than the lives of other non-black people, but I disagree almost completely with the goals of the organization that uses that name.
BLM and Antifa are to groups that get a pass because nobody in their right mind thinks that black lives don't matter, or that fascism is a good, not because they actually do anything positive for black people, or are even trying to do so.
Let me answer first by saying I can say without reservation that I am equally disgusted with anyone equating Trump's behavior, the Police's behavior, or Maga's behavior, or white Americans' behavior to Nazis.
To specifically answer your question I have reviewed most of the outward facing positions of BLM and don't agree with a lot of what they say. I also am saddened by violence associated with some of the protests in the name of BLM. I am not a card carrying member of their movement and am challenged by race relations in the US. They're not Nazis.
Re: Harrell's comments directed at Luka
Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2020 5:15 pm
by Coolbreeze44
thedoper wrote:CoolBreeze44 wrote:thedoper wrote:CoolBreeze44 wrote:thedoper wrote:CoolBreeze44 wrote:thedoper wrote:CoolBreeze44 wrote:thedoper wrote:mrhockey89 wrote:Cool, you're in Portland? Sorry to hear given the climate there.
doper, like the others said, it's about consistency. Like Q said, if you replace the word "white" with "black" and reverse who is saying it, I think we all know it would have been front page news in the NBA for a while, and would have been called out as super racist, not even using the slang term that you were originally suggesting.
I don't think any of us care too much about the term white boy, but we also agree that the intent is to be condescending, and it's a race-based condescending term. If we've learned anything in 2020, it doesn't have to be the majority that are offended by something, it can be the minority. As others mentioned, the Adams comment was years ago when we were in a different world as it pertains to political correctness on words.
On China the NBA definitely shows themselves to be total hypocrites. From the Hong Kong incident to the NBA China training academies where abuse of young children was taking place, the NBA not only didn't take a firm stance condemning it, but also tried to quiet the reporters reporting about it. They don't want bad press. It's all about the money, as always. It's also much of the reason I haven't watched a minute of playoff basketball this season.
I guess overall my expectation is that the NBA should be either taking a proactive stance as they pretend they are, and make sure they're applying their stance equally across all creeds or take a passive stance and avoid the topic altogether and let the players talk their trash and not dramamaticize every moment.
I get it. Its outrage about hypothetical consistency.
I'm thankful that most white players in the nba understand that language has context and typically dont make racial slurs. Like I already said, Im not going to get angry about a scenario that could potentially happen to a white player. I think that is a silly, make believe, straw man position. There is no politically correct boogeyman coming to strip white males of their rights.
With the violent intimidation tactics being used by some BLM activists I wouldn't be so sure. Familiarize yourself with 1930's Berlin and learn how the brownshirts were a precursor to the Nazi's rise to power. Some of the stuff I'm seeing today looks awfully familiar to what happened back then. The Germans never thought it could happen in their country either.
Wow cool. Please don't equate BLM with Nazi's at least to me. I am very familiar with 1930s Berlin. I lost much of my family in the Holocaust and definitely believe it cheapens any real debate about what is going on in the US right now to make any parallel to either side of US politics and one of the great evils of history. BLM definitely has challenging elements, but I think you are showing a tact and any real knowledge of history by trying to equate the real struggle of blacks as a minority at present to the white majority in Berlin blaming Jews for their economic hardship.
I'm not equating the real struggle of African Americans to anything. It's real and change is needed. I fully support the concept of BLM. What I have a problem with is certain parts of the movement. When i see innocent people being intimidated, threatened, and in many cases harmed, that's what i have a problem with. Some of these tactics are nearly exactly what the stormtroopers used when they were running around Germany strong arming people. And I'm not saying they are Nazi-like, I specifically said the brownshirts who were a precursor to the Nazi regime.
Please don't double down on your mistake. With the brownshirts it wasn't "certain parts of the movement" the whole movement was dedicated to terror, racism, and evil. The bad apples of BLM don't represent the movement as a whole and therefore any comparison to them and the Brownshirts is as stupid as comparing police in the USA to Brownshirts because of bad cops.
Doper, you're one of my favorite posters on this site. But you're crossing the line a bit there. Disagreeing with you doesn't mean I'm stupid or have made a mistake. I specifically told you what i had a problem with. I didn't generalize it into the whole movement. I said certain factions were using tactics that are very similar to what happened in Berlin. You're demonstrating some of the ignorance you're accusing me of.
No you did make a mistake. See my added edit to my previous post. Brownshirts were Nazis. They were created by the Nazi party. I don't think you're stupid. I think that drawing a line from Nazis to BLM is a stupid thing to do. We all have made mistakes like you are now. Feel free to correct yourself if you want. But calling me ignorant because of your pride isn't going to change anything.
Oh my goodness. No matter what I say, the fact you're convinced I'm equating BLM to Nazi Germany is going to get us no where. I'm not going to try and explain myself again, but to be clear, that is not what I was doing.
Here is what I do believe. An ignorant population is the DNC's greatest asset.
Cool you started this saying I should study history of the 1930s where you said Brownshirts were a precursor to Nazis. This is an incorrect telling of history and the premise for your position is based on false information. Brownshirts were Nazi's party members, formed by the official Nazi party in 1922. So whether you knowingly did it or not or intended to do it, you made a comparison to the behavior of people in BLM to Nazis. I told you that doing that is not cool, then you tried to double down and reiterated the false fact that Brownshirts were precursors to Nazis. You were the one insinuating that I should study history from the beginning. Again, bringing up Nazis in a discussion about BLM in any sort of comparative fashion is not cool in my opinion. You can bring up the challenges of BLM without talking about Nazis, especially if the historical information you are using to make your point is inaccurate.
I'm glad you weren't trying to equate BLM to Nazi's, but perhaps your language and historical research could have been a bit better presented so that you weren't so easy to misinterpret?
I'm clearly not as well versed on the subject as you are. Would it have made more sense if I had used the term SA instead of Brownshirts? But my intent wasn't to debate you and have us decide on a winner at the end of it. You're a smart guy and i fully believe you understand the basis to what i was trying to say. But you're trying so hard to get over on me I think we lost the spirited intent of having a back and forth discussion with proper comprehension on each side. You seemed to "add to" what i was actually saying and in some cases it changed the overall context. At the end of the day this is a basketball forum and we should probably take something like this to the General Discussion Forum.
Re: Harrell's comments directed at Luka
Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2020 5:33 pm
by Coolbreeze44
AbeVigodaLive wrote:Black Lives Matter:
____
The rub is that it seems to be a rather loosely organized movement more than any tangible tiered organization... and obviously, that can lead to a difference of opinion or tactics or motivations within the movement itself.
I have problems with it.
But I have many more problems with the strawman equating something like BLM as an entire movement with the holocaust. Why go there? BLM as an entire movement with the holocaust. Why go there?
There must be better, less incendiary and more accurate "connections" we can make than that strawman. Yuck.
I clearly didn't do what you say in bold here. But because I know you have reading comprehension issues from past arguments, I will do you the service of answering your clearly provocative post. Here is basically what I said throughout the dialogue:
Certain factions (not the whole movement) have used tactics (just tactics, not equating the entire movement) that were similar to those intimidation and violent methods used by the German precursor (nothing to do with the holocaust) to the Nazi movement Now as Doper pointed out I may have misidentified the Brownshirts as non-Nazis. I'll own that mistake if true. But you are also smart enough to know, that piece is irrelevant to the point i was making. And the point in italics is FACT. I have visual evidence.
Now my question to you is why did you have to insert yourself into this discussion with the clear intent of provoking discord with misleading and quite frankly, dishonest posts?
Re: Harrell's comments directed at Luka
Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2020 5:38 pm
by Coolbreeze44
Camden wrote:I don't do this often, but I agree with Cool here. The use of intimidation and terrorism -- yes, terrorism -- is beyond reckless and evades any sense of morality. That goes double when it's used in force against the innocent. I cannot and will not support the Black Lives Matter movement for the real premise it operates under: destroying the nuclear family and the traditional values of this country. Black lives matter, but the movement is buffoonery.
These rioters -- note that I am NOT criticizing the peaceful protesters that do exist even though I disagree with their movement -- have taken their frustrations out illegally and violently against citizens that played no part in any wrongdoing. Even worse is that they are not being held accountable for their actions, but instead being encouraged by liberal government and the mainstream media. That combination -- wrongdoers plus media encouragement -- has created an immovable object at this point. We have millions of emotional people of multiple races acting without a conscience. When does it end? How does it end? Will the other side push back? Will they push back quietly or with force? At the end of this there will be many unfortunate outcomes and no real growth for any populace. Just more destruction.
Well said Cam, I agree with all of it. It's not a bad thing to be on the same page once in a while.
Re: Harrell's comments directed at Luka
Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2020 5:39 pm
by thedoper
CoolBreeze44 wrote:thedoper wrote:CoolBreeze44 wrote:thedoper wrote:CoolBreeze44 wrote:thedoper wrote:CoolBreeze44 wrote:thedoper wrote:CoolBreeze44 wrote:thedoper wrote:mrhockey89 wrote:Cool, you're in Portland? Sorry to hear given the climate there.
doper, like the others said, it's about consistency. Like Q said, if you replace the word "white" with "black" and reverse who is saying it, I think we all know it would have been front page news in the NBA for a while, and would have been called out as super racist, not even using the slang term that you were originally suggesting.
I don't think any of us care too much about the term white boy, but we also agree that the intent is to be condescending, and it's a race-based condescending term. If we've learned anything in 2020, it doesn't have to be the majority that are offended by something, it can be the minority. As others mentioned, the Adams comment was years ago when we were in a different world as it pertains to political correctness on words.
On China the NBA definitely shows themselves to be total hypocrites. From the Hong Kong incident to the NBA China training academies where abuse of young children was taking place, the NBA not only didn't take a firm stance condemning it, but also tried to quiet the reporters reporting about it. They don't want bad press. It's all about the money, as always. It's also much of the reason I haven't watched a minute of playoff basketball this season.
I guess overall my expectation is that the NBA should be either taking a proactive stance as they pretend they are, and make sure they're applying their stance equally across all creeds or take a passive stance and avoid the topic altogether and let the players talk their trash and not dramamaticize every moment.
I get it. Its outrage about hypothetical consistency.
I'm thankful that most white players in the nba understand that language has context and typically dont make racial slurs. Like I already said, Im not going to get angry about a scenario that could potentially happen to a white player. I think that is a silly, make believe, straw man position. There is no politically correct boogeyman coming to strip white males of their rights.
With the violent intimidation tactics being used by some BLM activists I wouldn't be so sure. Familiarize yourself with 1930's Berlin and learn how the brownshirts were a precursor to the Nazi's rise to power. Some of the stuff I'm seeing today looks awfully familiar to what happened back then. The Germans never thought it could happen in their country either.
Wow cool. Please don't equate BLM with Nazi's at least to me. I am very familiar with 1930s Berlin. I lost much of my family in the Holocaust and definitely believe it cheapens any real debate about what is going on in the US right now to make any parallel to either side of US politics and one of the great evils of history. BLM definitely has challenging elements, but I think you are showing a tact and any real knowledge of history by trying to equate the real struggle of blacks as a minority at present to the white majority in Berlin blaming Jews for their economic hardship.
I'm not equating the real struggle of African Americans to anything. It's real and change is needed. I fully support the concept of BLM. What I have a problem with is certain parts of the movement. When i see innocent people being intimidated, threatened, and in many cases harmed, that's what i have a problem with. Some of these tactics are nearly exactly what the stormtroopers used when they were running around Germany strong arming people. And I'm not saying they are Nazi-like, I specifically said the brownshirts who were a precursor to the Nazi regime.
Please don't double down on your mistake. With the brownshirts it wasn't "certain parts of the movement" the whole movement was dedicated to terror, racism, and evil. The bad apples of BLM don't represent the movement as a whole and therefore any comparison to them and the Brownshirts is as stupid as comparing police in the USA to Brownshirts because of bad cops.
Doper, you're one of my favorite posters on this site. But you're crossing the line a bit there. Disagreeing with you doesn't mean I'm stupid or have made a mistake. I specifically told you what i had a problem with. I didn't generalize it into the whole movement. I said certain factions were using tactics that are very similar to what happened in Berlin. You're demonstrating some of the ignorance you're accusing me of.
No you did make a mistake. See my added edit to my previous post. Brownshirts were Nazis. They were created by the Nazi party. I don't think you're stupid. I think that drawing a line from Nazis to BLM is a stupid thing to do. We all have made mistakes like you are now. Feel free to correct yourself if you want. But calling me ignorant because of your pride isn't going to change anything.
Oh my goodness. No matter what I say, the fact you're convinced I'm equating BLM to Nazi Germany is going to get us no where. I'm not going to try and explain myself again, but to be clear, that is not what I was doing.
Here is what I do believe. An ignorant population is the DNC's greatest asset.
Cool you started this saying I should study history of the 1930s where you said Brownshirts were a precursor to Nazis. This is an incorrect telling of history and the premise for your position is based on false information. Brownshirts were Nazi's party members, formed by the official Nazi party in 1922. So whether you knowingly did it or not or intended to do it, you made a comparison to the behavior of people in BLM to Nazis. I told you that doing that is not cool, then you tried to double down and reiterated the false fact that Brownshirts were precursors to Nazis. You were the one insinuating that I should study history from the beginning. Again, bringing up Nazis in a discussion about BLM in any sort of comparative fashion is not cool in my opinion. You can bring up the challenges of BLM without talking about Nazis, especially if the historical information you are using to make your point is inaccurate.
I'm glad you weren't trying to equate BLM to Nazi's, but perhaps your language and historical research could have been a bit better presented so that you weren't so easy to misinterpret?
I'm clearly not as well versed on the subject as you are. Would it have made more sense if I had used the term SA instead of Brownshirts? But my intent wasn't to debate you and have us decide on a winner at the end of it. You're a smart guy and i fully believe you understand the basis to what i was trying to say. But you're trying so hard to get over on me I think we lost the spirited intent of having a back and forth discussion with proper comprehension on each side. You seemed to "add to" what i was actually saying and in some cases it changed the overall context. At the end of the day this is a basketball forum and we should probably take something like this to the General Discussion Forum.
Hey Cool. All I am asking is simple.
1. Lets try as hard as possible to resist the impulse to compare elements of current American politics to Nazis
2. If we feel that we absolutely have to make that comparison, lets be accurate
Im sorry if I made this out into something more than it was. I am sensitive to these comparisons and feel its been thrown around way too loosely by the left and right at present. My personal connection to the issue makes it a personal point of sensitivity. I respect your opinion and intelligence and am more than happy to put this all way behind us. Go Wolves.
Re: Harrell's comments directed at Luka
Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2020 6:13 pm
by BizarroJerry [enjin:6592520]
TheSP wrote:BizarroJerry wrote:Absolutely agree Doper. False equivalency by a long shot. Let's also not forget the US soldiers that fought in WWII were anti-fascists, antifa, as they're so affectionately called by conservatives.
So Antifa calling themselves anti-fascists while using fascist tactics doesn't make them fascists? Pretending Antifa are a well intentioned group of people because they call themselves anti-fascists is like saying it wasn't rape because the rapist said he was making love to his victim.
I cannot get over how many people are willing to stick their heads in the sand and accept that this group of anarchists are working for good even though their actions are violent, but hey, they call themselves anti-fascists so we'll look the other way.
What exactly is a fascist tactic? Trump labels them a terrorist organization and continues to support white supremacist groups. And way to work in a rape comparison. Classy.