GDT: Knicks vs. Wolves

[FNG]

I only got to watch the 4th quarter and the post game, but it sounds like I got lucky...very entertaining 4th quarter and a terrific win. Some thoughts:

7) Q mentioned once that nobody has more ineffective activity on defense than Beasley and he's right. And when Ant is putting in the effort on D, he resembles Beas. But I never question Beasley's effort on defense (although I don't think he will ever "get it"), and I didn't question Ant's last night in the 4th quarter...and his two steals and dunks were huge. Finch obviously noted Ant's effort too, and rewarded him with 4th quarter minutes that have been rare for Ant as of late. Accountability, right?

Your viewing of only the 4th quarter obviously taints your viewing experience. Edwards was mostly abysmal before the 4th quarter, especially on defense. One play in particular where he was 20 feet ahead of Barrett and trotting back guarding nobody as the other young player sprinted right past him... getting a foul at the rim. He also messed up a couple of assignments and was generally poor defensively.

Maybe he was scolded relentlessly on the sidelines. Maybe there's other accountability for these guys that work better than benching them in the middle of the game. There's so much that goes into coaching that none of us can ever fathom.

But I know that I was shaking my head for what SEEMED like a lack of accountability after such a brazen display of laziness. But what do I know... whatever Finch did... it worked for this one game because the Wolves don't win without Edwards in the 4th.



[Note: Are they in that position if he played as relentless for the first three quarters... I dunno.]

Yeah, my comments are limited to the 4th quarter only, where Ant's effort was uncharacteristically consistent. And not just the 2 steals...his on-ball defense was strong a couple times also. But of course his rotations were awful as always, but his 4th quarter flaws were more stupid than lazy. Ant is a terrible defender, and it's difficult to hide him when he's paired with Beasley...it's only going to get more difficult when DLO returns next week. Oddly though, I thought that our two worst defenders, Beas and Ant, fed off each other energy-wise on defense in the 4th quarter. Good to see, but largely still ineffective on balance.

[Jester1534]

I only got to watch the 4th quarter and the post game, but it sounds like I got lucky...very entertaining 4th quarter and a terrific win. Some thoughts:

1) Chris Finch may be a first year coach, but his post-game comments are always spot on. I loved his praise of Jaden's game, and his defense of Karl not getting calls. His players are learning they are going to get the hook if they don't put in the effort (or do something really stupid) on defense, but they also know he has their backs. I gotta believe his guys love playing for him.

2) I love watching this Thibs-coached defense, but I had forgotten how ugly his ignore-the-PG offense is to watch. Elfrid Payton averaged 7.4 assists per game his two previous years...this year in the same minutes per game, he's averaging 3.8.

3) Further, it's painful to listen to a Thibs-coached team when there is no crowd to drown him out, and it's even worse listening on the radio. I was never as down on Thibs when he was here as many were, but listening to that raspy voice and watching his histrionics on the sidelines, I sure didn't find myself missing him. It's impossible for me to tune him out, and it detracts from the fan experience.

4) Jim Pete's comment that there is no need to have Ricky on the court in the 4th quarter if Ant is going to be the primary ball handler was true in a very narrow sense. But it ignores the defensive side of the ball. If you replay over and over again the Wolves starters on defense, it becomes painfully clear that only Ricky and Jaden understand how to play team NBA defense...take either one out in the 4th quarter, and the defense becomes absurdly bad. And why was Beasley handling the ball rather than Ricky on the almost game-losing turnover in the final minute?

5) Karl was a warrior in the 4th quarter so I'm giving him a pass on his stupid TO with 5 seconds left. But I do wonder what the most important guy on our team was thinking?

6) Analysts often talk about how the NBA game is too fast for most rookies, and they only start to get it when things slow down for them. I agree. It's interesting to me though that there is nobody on our team for whom the game seems very slow than our 20-year-old rookie Jaden McDaniel. As I watch him, one word keeps popping into my head...cool. He's 180 degrees from what I expected when we drafted him.

7) Q mentioned once that nobody has more ineffective activity on defense than Beasley and he's right. And when Ant is putting in the effort on D, he resembles Beas. But I never question Beasley's effort on defense (although I don't think he will ever "get it"), and I didn't question Ant's last night in the 4th quarter...and his two steals and dunks were huge. Finch obviously noted Ant's effort too, and rewarded him with 4th quarter minutes that have been rare for Ant as of late. Accountability, right?

8) Did anyone else cringe when Dave Benz said after a sneaky Ant steal "Ants have compound eyes!"?

9) Thank god Finch put the reserves out of their misery halfway through the 4th quarter and let the starters win the game.

Wonderful 4th quarter and a much-needed win. Our club is now 5-7 since the break...not something most fans would be excited about, but significant for us. The next game is against a Memphis team which has lost 3 of their last 4 (albeit with all three losses oddly to the very good Jazz), so do we finally get that second consecutive win?

FNG I'm going to talk about point 4. I want you to see when you just look at box score how dumb is to not have context of not watching the game which I didn't last night.

Ricky would've been a +1 if Beasley doesn't hit that 3 at the end of the game. Elfrid Payton shot 50% on all shots had 5 rebounds and 3 assists in 28 mins. Pretty good for what you said pg inept offense.

If I look at box score it sure looks like Ricky lost his match up and had no reason to be on the floor because Payton was scoring on. 50% clip on him.

My point here I'm sure this is not the case but when Cam and Kek talk about watching the game and just seeing a box score there two different things.

[BloopOracle]

I always cringe when Dave Benz says one of his dumbass catchphrases, he doesn't hold a candle to Tom Hanneman's wit and dry humor

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

It appears to me that Edwards can defend when he turns the switch on. What that tells me is that as he matures and potentially gets into games that really matter (i.e. the playoffs), he will be able to hold his own on that end.

But tolerating his on and mostly off switch defensively is only acceptable IF he turns into an offensive monster that can carry a team on that end. Right now he carries a usage rate that points him in this direction, but an efficiency level which is abominable. So right now he's the worst of both worlds - expends a ton of energy on inefficient offense while mostly playing lazy defense. He's a big reason this team loses so much.

[AbeVigodaLive]

It appears to me that Edwards can defend when he turns the switch on. What that tells me is that as he matures and potentially gets into games that really matter (i.e. the playoffs), he will be able to hold his own on that end.

But tolerating his on and mostly off switch defensively is only acceptable IF he turns into an offensive monster that can carry a team on that end. Right now he carries a usage rate that points him in this direction, but an efficiency level which is abominable. So right now he's the worst of both worlds - expends a ton of energy on inefficient offense while mostly playing lazy defense. He's a big reason this team loses so much.

And that's why it's such a fine line with Edwards. We praise him relentlessly for performances like the 4th quarter... where he was brilliant. ALL of us believe THAT guy can be an All NBA player. Amazing.

But how much stock do we put in the first three quarters where his defense was terrible... like the absolute worst in the NBA terrible? How much stock do we put in the games where he actively led the Wolves to a loss? Obviously, those have far outnumbered 4th quarters like yesterday.

Again... for me... it comes down to effort and improvement. If he's playing hard and battling through rookie mistakes -- BUT LEARNING FROM THEM -- cool. But if he's losing out on effort plays like we've seen... or still not figuring out how to play in a team defensive scheme... what are we really doing here except kicking the can down the road a bit before we reach the cliff...

The talent and promise and spurts of brilliance should excite every Wolves fan. The settling and effort stuff should justifiably worry every Wolves fan. Effort should not be an issue for a rookie looking to break big.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Agree Abe. And unfortunately the culture of this franchise has been to reward losing habits with....more playing time. One of the things that annoyed me about Thibs is that his bark was bigger than his bite. He'd constantly be screaming and imploring from the sidelines, yet never did anything that could actually create a durable change in behavior and that's bench people for poor defensive effort. It seems like Ryan and now Finch have continued the tradition of not holding gifted young players accountable.

This is why McDaniels could ultimately be the more valuable player to us longer term. He appears to have had his bad habits broken by a college coach that was willing to hold him accountable last season (recall all the technical fouls he got and ended up getting yanked from the starting lineup).

Crean clearly catered to Edwards, as what we see now is largely a facsimile of what he was at Georgia.

Having said that, the potential upside to Edwards is hard to quit....

[kekgeek]

Agree Abe. And unfortunately the culture of this franchise has been to reward losing habits with....more playing time. One of the things that annoyed me about Thibs is that his bark was bigger than his bite. He'd constantly be screaming and imploring from the sidelines, yet never did anything that could actually create a durable change in behavior and that's bench people for poor defensive effort. It seems like Ryan and now Finch have continued the tradition of not holding gifted young players accountable.

This is why McDaniels could ultimately be the more valuable player to us longer term. He appears to have had his bad habits broken by a college coach that was willing to hold him accountable last season (recall all the technical fouls he got and ended up getting yanked from the starting lineup).

Crean clearly catered to Edwards, as what we see now is largely a facsimile of what he was at Georgia.

Having said that, the potential upside to Edwards is hard to quit....

I will disagree with one point you made about Finch. Finch has benched Edwards twice in the last 8 games in 4th Q because of his terrible play. I think Finch will go with who is playing well if the game is close

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Agree Abe. And unfortunately the culture of this franchise has been to reward losing habits with....more playing time. One of the things that annoyed me about Thibs is that his bark was bigger than his bite. He'd constantly be screaming and imploring from the sidelines, yet never did anything that could actually create a durable change in behavior and that's bench people for poor defensive effort. It seems like Ryan and now Finch have continued the tradition of not holding gifted young players accountable.

This is why McDaniels could ultimately be the more valuable player to us longer term. He appears to have had his bad habits broken by a college coach that was willing to hold him accountable last season (recall all the technical fouls he got and ended up getting yanked from the starting lineup).

Crean clearly catered to Edwards, as what we see now is largely a facsimile of what he was at Georgia.

Having said that, the potential upside to Edwards is hard to quit....

I will disagree with one point you made about Finch. Finch has benched Edwards twice in the last 8 games in 4th Q because of his terrible play. I think Finch will go with who is playing well if the game is close

Good to know....honestly haven't watched much lately. Hopefully he pulls him earlier in games too when he is being blatantly lazy (the classic bench for 2 minutes, then re-insert again to send a message without over-rotating). These things become nearly impossible to do when these high scorers get their next contract.

[thedoper]

This many years into KAT's tenure and we're looking to a rookie wing for setting the tone for our competitive leadership on both sides of the ball. The fact that the savior complex exists at all levels of our franchise from management down to our roster is unsettling. The organization has gone to great lengths to say KAT is our leader, yet Ant comes in with a ton of confidence and everyone hands over leadership and opportunity. Unfortunately the roster construction and culture of the whole franchise has created this scenario. We can hope Ant is really learning as much as he claims, but that is in no way a given when he was gifted the opportunity in the vacuum of leadership within our franchise.

[AbeVigodaLive]

This many years into KAT's tenure and we're looking to a rookie wing for setting the tone for our competitive leadership on both sides of the ball. The fact that the savior complex exists at all levels of our franchise from management down to our roster is unsettling. The organization has gone to great lengths to say KAT is our leader, yet Ant comes in with a ton of confidence and everyone hands over leadership and opportunity. Unfortunately the roster construction and culture of the whole franchise has created this scenario. We can hope Ant is really learning as much as he claims, but that is in no way a given when he was gifted the opportunity in the vacuum of leadership within our franchise.

"I trust him (Edwards) more than anyone on the team to get the ball and get the bucket for us and make the right play."

- M. Beasley.

Lofty praise for a rookie who still has negative VORP and even WS... so it's more than likely just a nice statement celebrating a great 4th quarter from the rookie. But it would be very Wolves-ian and telling and scary if there actually is truth behind it.