CoolBreeze44 wrote:It's easy to pick on the two max contract guys, and they deserve to be criticized. But that loss the other night was a total team disaster. Nobody should be singled out as the culprit(s)
Hi Cool, I do agree with you that the other night's lost was a team disaster, and it completely underscores how badly this team needs RoCo to get healthy, but your comment made me think of the old story about (veteran) Sam Mitchell talking to the young KG after a loss in the lockerroom...
"I tell a story about -- we were in the locker room when KG was in like his third year in the league, and (veteran) Sam Mitchell was sitting in the locker room," Saunders said. "KG was in there, and we had lost a couple games, and we were all sitting there talking.
"KG started going, 'Hey, you've got to start doing more.' And he's talking to some of the bench guys. 'You've got to start doing more.' And Sam said, 'Hey, hold it, hold it. Let me tell you something. You're making all the money. Hey, it's your responsibility. You make the money, you've got to live up to that.' So, that was the mentality, and from that time, KG never ever from that point, he always took responsibility."
Are there two more polar opposites than KG and Wig?
In terms of what? Character? Yes.
While I wasn't clear, I think it should be obvious I was talking about drive, effort, desire to win. KG was so driven to win that unless he was on your team you'd hate the guy. Wig is so opposite of that that the team that just embarrassed them called them out publicly, that lack of respect in a public forum like Twitter is pretty rare.
Q12543 wrote:Wiggins is a nice guy and doesn't rock the boat, but his presence is corrosive because of his seeming indifference to winning/losing/how he plays while being the highest paid guy on the team. That sets a bad tone for the rest of the team. Why care when your highest paid player doesn't?
KAT at least shows he cares a good chunk of the time and he's actually pretty damn good on top of that. But there are certain matchups he seems to go into the fetal position against - Horford and Embiid being two of them.
I think the key here is the "seeming indifference" to winning and losing. I can't tell you why he can't bring it every night, but every coach has said he has a fire burning inside and cares greatly. I don't know him well enough to dispute that. But I will admit it doesn't show often enough.
His coaches and him can say that all they want, but anyone that has watched him knows it's clear as day that he doesn't give full effort very often. And when he does, he can be a game changer. It's a shame and I really hope we figure out a way to move on from him, as I don't think it's good for the team culture.
I actually love athletes with stoic demeanors - Barry Sanders for example - LOVED the way he carried himself and let his play do the talking. Kawhi Leonard is another one. But these guys produced.
Fair enough. He's clearly not good enough to justify the contract. But i stop short of saying he has no heart. I don't think that's his limitation. Just my opinion.
Q12543 wrote:Wiggins is a nice guy and doesn't rock the boat, but his presence is corrosive because of his seeming indifference to winning/losing/how he plays while being the highest paid guy on the team. That sets a bad tone for the rest of the team. Why care when your highest paid player doesn't?
KAT at least shows he cares a good chunk of the time and he's actually pretty damn good on top of that. But there are certain matchups he seems to go into the fetal position against - Horford and Embiid being two of them.
I think the key here is the "seeming indifference" to winning and losing. I can't tell you why he can't bring it every night, but every coach has said he has a fire burning inside and cares greatly. I don't know him well enough to dispute that. But I will admit it doesn't show often enough.
His coaches and him can say that all they want, but anyone that has watched him knows it's clear as day that he doesn't give full effort very often. And when he does, he can be a game changer. It's a shame and I really hope we figure out a way to move on from him, as I don't think it's good for the team culture.
I actually love athletes with stoic demeanors - Barry Sanders for example - LOVED the way he carried himself and let his play do the talking. Kawhi Leonard is another one. But these guys produced.
Fair enough. He's clearly not good enough to justify the contract. But i stop short of saying he has no heart. I don't think that's his limitation. Just my opinion.
Personally I think that if Wiggins hadn't earned his rep for not playing hard etc and people were just watching him this season he wouldn't be ripped as much for it. I'm not suggesting Wiggins is going balls out or can't up the effort more but I do think he is giving more consistently than we have seen before. His affect has been really weird at times this year though. Big play...just sorta walks off the floor while Taj goes bonkers. Wiggins is unlikely to ever be a leader but like Q said it's rhe production that has been missing. It's been trending in the right direction the past few weeks which doesn't hurt.
Q12543 wrote:Wiggins is a nice guy and doesn't rock the boat, but his presence is corrosive because of his seeming indifference to winning/losing/how he plays while being the highest paid guy on the team. That sets a bad tone for the rest of the team. Why care when your highest paid player doesn't?
KAT at least shows he cares a good chunk of the time and he's actually pretty damn good on top of that. But there are certain matchups he seems to go into the fetal position against - Horford and Embiid being two of them.
I think the key here is the "seeming indifference" to winning and losing. I can't tell you why he can't bring it every night, but every coach has said he has a fire burning inside and cares greatly. I don't know him well enough to dispute that. But I will admit it doesn't show often enough.
His coaches and him can say that all they want, but anyone that has watched him knows it's clear as day that he doesn't give full effort very often. And when he does, he can be a game changer. It's a shame and I really hope we figure out a way to move on from him, as I don't think it's good for the team culture.
I actually love athletes with stoic demeanors - Barry Sanders for example - LOVED the way he carried himself and let his play do the talking. Kawhi Leonard is another one. But these guys produced.
Fair enough. He's clearly not good enough to justify the contract. But i stop short of saying he has no heart. I don't think that's his limitation. Just my opinion.
Personally I think that if Wiggins hadn't earned his rep for not playing hard etc and people were just watching him this season he wouldn't be ripped as much for it. I'm not suggesting Wiggins is going balls out or can't up the effort more but I do think he is giving more consistently than we have seen before. His affect has been really weird at times this year though. Big play...just sorta walks off the floor while Taj goes bonkers. Wiggins is unlikely to ever be a leader but like Q said it's rhe production that has been missing. It's been trending in the right direction the past few weeks which doesn't hurt.
The effort thing really hasn't been coming up in discussions this year, I don't really remember it being a major point of conversation until the disappointment of the Philly game. I think his D has improved. He's logging a lot of minutes again this year, and from what I can see he's just missing shots. I'm curious even with the missed shots how a coach can't find a better way to play to his strengths and adapt his inefficiencies. I think Saunders is really the best opportunity we've had to combine his development with strategies on the court. If he plateaus with where he's at it's certainly going to be time to move on him. But I think it's worth seeing what Saunders can do beyond 4 games.
