Minnesota Sports Forum

Q12543 wrote:Yeah, hard to believe how much Okogie is struggling after two solid shooting years in college. It's not like he was Andre Roberson (9.6 ppg) in college and always just a defense/hustle guy. Okogie had some big time games and made quite a lot of 3's. I don't quite get why he's been so bad other than it's the Wolves.

Everyone is just bigger, faster and more athletic in the NBA, and some guys have a difficult time adjusting. The G League is a step down from the NBA, but still a big step up from college. As you say, he was a pretty good shooter in college. Maybe a stint in Iowa would help him rediscover the shooting touch he had at Georgia Tech. The kid has so much potential...I want Ryan to find the best way to bring it out.

longstrangetrip wrote:

Q12543 wrote:Yeah, hard to believe how much Okogie is struggling after two solid shooting years in college. It's not like he was Andre Roberson (9.6 ppg) in college and always just a defense/hustle guy. Okogie had some big time games and made quite a lot of 3's. I don't quite get why he's been so bad other than it's the Wolves.

Everyone is just bigger, faster and more athletic in the NBA, and some guys have a difficult time adjusting. The G League is a step down from the NBA, but still a big step up from college. As you say, he was a pretty good shooter in college. Maybe a stint in Iowa would help him rediscover the shooting touch he had at Georgia Tech. The kid has so much potential...I want Ryan to find the best way to bring it out.

Okogie was never a shooter in college, more a scorer.

In think the distance in the nba is still throwing him off. Its like hes throwing the ball instead of shooting.

He is also shooting more because he cant attack the paint. Alot of his attacks are reckless fadeaway lay up attempts because he lacks the feel or explosion to go over or through guys. Defender just wall up and blovk hus shot. Hes a lot like early zach in that regard. Lavine was horrible at the rim attack and would often fade, but now hes added a craftiness to his attacks.

The biggest issue i have with okogie is that hes on the verge of being in that marcus smart tier of flopping everwhere, except not as convincing.

Take a shot, flop.
Attack the rim, flop.
Go through screen, flop.
Challenge a shot, flop.

He doesnt flop all the time, but he gets in 1 or 2 obvious ones every game.

I don't wanna turn into the Okogie apologist, it just see more value to his game then the advanced defensive stats show. So it's not gonna do good writing 10 post arguing my POV.

LST, we differ a bit. I'd rather play him despite some of his fault, because as he showed last night we you can win with him on the court. Obviously when RoCo comes back his role should be lessened. But I can't think of a more wolves move then to bench him and not play him in favor of Rose, and sell out at all costs to get the 8th seed.

I'm a big Okogie fan but I've also seen reasons why he shouldn't get SOME of the minutes or opportinitrs to play that fans clamor for. He has been more uneven offensively and it's not just him making or missing shots. It's been less in control. Still he isn't Bazz level bad when it's going wrong. He still attacks and drops some pretty nice dime once a game. I can't remeber if it was this game or the Lakers game (watched most of the 2nd half of the LA game pretty recently) and someone was t ready for it or fumbled it etc. LST wants to send him to Iowa and suggests Glen wouldn't let him go there which I think is not something Glen would insist upon.

Should he be out of the rotation when everyone is healthy? Again that's a question we can ask when that happens and Josh has given us more playing time to make a decision on. Personally I would probably have him mostly outnof the rotation but bring him in here and there on a game to game basis and maybe in certain situations. I'd do the same with Tolliver also although at this point I might try and find more ways to get Tolliver out there. Like Q said Okogie you can just throw out there whenever but honestly I think you can do that with Tolliver also. Both guys it doesn't matter they are gonna ball. That's a good thing about this team having guys like that.

There was one play I think it was Onogir that stepped over quickly and forced PG into that double dribble carry. Stuff like that is what Okogie does here and there. He just ups the level of energy of defense and while players and teams use it against him it's still there. He is up in guys face and space and nearly coming up inside their jersey with his hands waving...and he does that A LOT without getting foul calls. That stuff is nice to see. He isn't perfect but he does some shit out there that make guys have to actually work. Brewer's defense was always a little overrated but the guy was everywhere and I think that matters plus he was ELITE at take the ball away from people. There is just something about having a guy that plays his ass off. The other day during a game Britt Robson posted on Twitter that "Okogie playing like a bowling pin tossed into a roller derby rink." I'm not even sure what that really means but it seemed like a hilarious and accurate description.

So do you win games because Okogie is out there or because of him? Idk depends on what play or second you are talking about. It's some of both. One thing I have noticed about him recently is he has been hurt as a defender being smaller. I think he can overcome that with his wingspan and athletism but at times big SF types just shoot over or get a step and not much he can do. That's now though. Look at a guy like Marcus Smart he can basically play SF at times.

Cool I think this was a good time to bring back the 2+1. We could have had it back after the Butler deal went through but this is a good time to have it back IHMO.

monsterpile wrote:Cool I think this was a good time to bring back the 2+1. We could have had it back after the Butler deal went through but this is a good time to have it back IHMO.

Hopefully it can foster good discussion like we've had here. I'm for anything that can increase participation. Lot's of smart people share their thoughts on here, and the personal conduct is better than any board I've seen. I'm one of the few assholes you guys have to put up with.

crazy-canuck wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:

Q12543 wrote:Yeah, hard to believe how much Okogie is struggling after two solid shooting years in college. It's not like he was Andre Roberson (9.6 ppg) in college and always just a defense/hustle guy. Okogie had some big time games and made quite a lot of 3's. I don't quite get why he's been so bad other than it's the Wolves.

Everyone is just bigger, faster and more athletic in the NBA, and some guys have a difficult time adjusting. The G League is a step down from the NBA, but still a big step up from college. As you say, he was a pretty good shooter in college. Maybe a stint in Iowa would help him rediscover the shooting touch he had at Georgia Tech. The kid has so much potential...I want Ryan to find the best way to bring it out.

Okogie was never a shooter in college, more a scorer.

In think the distance in the nba is still throwing him off. Its like hes throwing the ball instead of shooting.

He is also shooting more because he cant attack the paint. Alot of his attacks are reckless fadeaway lay up attempts because he lacks the feel or explosion to go over or through guys. Defender just wall up and blovk hus shot. Hes a lot like early zach in that regard. Lavine was horrible at the rim attack and would often fade, but now hes added a craftiness to his attacks.

The biggest issue i have with okogie is that hes on the verge of being in that marcus smart tier of flopping everwhere, except not as convincing.

Take a shot, flop.
Attack the rim, flop.
Go through screen, flop.
Challenge a shot, flop.

He doesnt flop all the time, but he gets in 1 or 2 obvious ones every game.

Yeah, I get that he wasn't a high volume marksman in college. But he was pretty good and he made his free throws at a high rate too, which is usually a good sign for future shooting potential. So I didn't expect him to be gangbusters out of school, but certainly not THIS bad.

I'm just amazed at how this franchise consistently struggles to take whatever lump of clay its given and then help mold it into something greater than what that lump of clay can become on its own. Basically the Loves, KATs, and Wiggins basically become what they would have become anyway - good, bad, or indifferent. We seemingly never take a player and then add value on top of whatever inherent skills and work ethic they bring from the get go.

So with Okogie, we get the motor and defense and "nonstop" stuff, but he becomes almost the worst case scenario otherwise. Not middling. Not mediocre. No, absolutely HORRIBLE shooting the ball.

End of rant.

Q12543 wrote:

crazy-canuck wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:

Q12543 wrote:Yeah, hard to believe how much Okogie is struggling after two solid shooting years in college. It's not like he was Andre Roberson (9.6 ppg) in college and always just a defense/hustle guy. Okogie had some big time games and made quite a lot of 3's. I don't quite get why he's been so bad other than it's the Wolves.

Everyone is just bigger, faster and more athletic in the NBA, and some guys have a difficult time adjusting. The G League is a step down from the NBA, but still a big step up from college. As you say, he was a pretty good shooter in college. Maybe a stint in Iowa would help him rediscover the shooting touch he had at Georgia Tech. The kid has so much potential...I want Ryan to find the best way to bring it out.

Okogie was never a shooter in college, more a scorer.

In think the distance in the nba is still throwing him off. Its like hes throwing the ball instead of shooting.

He is also shooting more because he cant attack the paint. Alot of his attacks are reckless fadeaway lay up attempts because he lacks the feel or explosion to go over or through guys. Defender just wall up and blovk hus shot. Hes a lot like early zach in that regard. Lavine was horrible at the rim attack and would often fade, but now hes added a craftiness to his attacks.

The biggest issue i have with okogie is that hes on the verge of being in that marcus smart tier of flopping everwhere, except not as convincing.

Take a shot, flop.
Attack the rim, flop.
Go through screen, flop.
Challenge a shot, flop.

He doesnt flop all the time, but he gets in 1 or 2 obvious ones every game.

Yeah, I get that he wasn't a high volume marksman in college. But he was pretty good and he made his free throws at a high rate too, which is usually a good sign for future shooting potential. So I didn't expect him to be gangbusters out of school, but certainly not THIS bad.

I'm just amazed at how this franchise consistently struggles to take whatever lump of clay its given and then help mold it into something greater than what that lump of clay can become on its own. Basically the Loves, KATs, and Wiggins basically become what they would have become anyway - good, bad, or indifferent. We seemingly never take a player and then add value on top of whatever inherent skills and work ethic they bring from the get go.

So with Okogie, we get the motor and defense and "nonstop" stuff, but he becomes almost the worst case scenario otherwise. Not middling. Not mediocre. No, absolutely HORRIBLE shooting the ball.

End of rant.

Q, what would be your development plan for Josh going forward? I'm on record suggesting he spend some time in Iowa getting used to playing against athletes more like NBA players than his college opponents, but I sense I may be alone on that island. What would you do...give him significant minutes in the rotation, keep him on the roster but only spot play him when needed, or send him down to Iowa for development?

LST, I think Okogie has proven that he doesn't sabotage lineups (think Jamal Crawford or Zach LaVine), meaning he's not screwing up enough to weigh down the 5-man units he plays in. Hustle and defense can make up for a lot of sins on offense. Plus with RoCo out and Rose's inconsistent health, we really need him up with the big league team and in the rotation. So I'm not sure the G-League is even an option at this point.

What I would do is hire the best damn shooting coach in the business and have him live, eat, and breath with Josh, Tyus, and Wiggins. It's just amazing to me how little improvement we've seen from these guys beyond the arc. And yes, I know Wiggins is marginally better, but I have a sneaking suspicion he'd be a lot better if with San Antonio, Boston, Golden State, etc.

Q12543 wrote:LST, I think Okogie has proven that he doesn't sabotage lineups (think Jamal Crawford or Zach LaVine), meaning he's not screwing up enough to weigh down the 5-man units he plays in. Hustle and defense can make up for a lot of sins on offense. Plus with RoCo out and Rose's inconsistent health, we really need him up with the big league team and in the rotation. So I'm not sure the G-League is even an option at this point.

What I would do is hire the best damn shooting coach in the business and have him live, eat, and breath with Josh, Tyus, and Wiggins. It's just amazing to me how little improvement we've seen from these guys beyond the arc. And yes, I know Wiggins is marginally better, but I have a sneaking suspicion he'd be a lot better if with San Antonio, Boston, Golden State, etc.

I think all our players minus the exbulls woukd be better on those teams.