Minnesota Sports Forum

lipoli390 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

Camden wrote:

Q12543 wrote:The team has basically been playing .500 ball the last 10+ games with Jimmy, so I highly doubt we can hold it together the rest of the way. Sorry, but I think this pretty much is the beginning of the end in terms of our playoff hopes this year. The West is too tough and we don't have enough padding between us and the 9th seed.

It very well could be [the end of Minnesota's playoff hopes], but I still see one All-Star -- perhaps All-NBA -- center, one former All-Star guard, and one inconsistent/inefficient but gifted volume scorer on the roster. The optimist in me says I'd like to think that Towns can take this team on his back and lead the way, but he might be too inexperienced for that load. I'd also like to see Teague pick up the scoring load. We know he's capable of 15-16 a night. We definitely need Aggressive Jeff going forward.

And then there's whatever we're going to get from Wiggins...

It might be enough to hang on.

I'm less worried about the offense. It's the defense...we're going to go from bad to worse. KAT can score 30+ per night if he'd like. It won't matter if they can't stop anyone.

On some nights can the Wolves have enough firepower to just outscore some teams? They might. Look at what Teague has done the past 4 games (fun to cherrypick). 22 points per game on high efficiency with 25 total assists and total of 8 turnovers. Belly can give this team some spacing and that could help Towns, Wiggins and Teague have more space to operate. Crawford is gonna play more and he can fill it up. There could be a night when 4 guys put up 20 point games. I agree the defense is my concern but this team even without Butler has some firepower to put the ball in the hoop. Without Butler they can probably play a bit differently offensively. They took 35 3's last night. It was against the Bulls but still fun to see. I'm not saying get your hopes up but there have been teams that have won plenty of games basically just outscoring teams on various nights. We will see. We need some scoreboard watching games to go our way to help out.

Monster --

I agree that this team, even without Butler, has the firepower to outscore teams. Last night was a perfect example as the Wolves put up 120 points. Note that they scored 120 points even though both KAT and Belly grossly underperformed from behind the arc - KAT going 0-5 and Belly 1-6.

The Wolves defense surprisingly good last night. Although the Bulls shore 46.7% from the field, the Wolves did hold them to 102 points and 26% from behind the arc. I thought last night might have been Wiggins' best game of the season defensively. He was in total lock-down mode the entire game. Teague was pesky and Taj was Taj. Towns had one of his worst games defensively -- looking too much like he did the first half of the season. That can't happen again if this team is going to finish in the top 6.

I'm not going to get my hope up too high. But Cam made some good points about what we have even with Butler out, including an allstar potential all-NBA type center (Towns), a former all-star PG still in his prime (Teague), a great young volume scoring wing with all-NBA talent who has shown he can be a great lock-down defender (Wiggins), a former 6th man award winner off the bench still playing at that level (Crawford) and a super solid consistent starting PF (Gibson).

So it's important to note even without Butler, this isn't the team from last season. Thankfully, Thibs didn't just add Butler to the roster last summer. He added Gibson and Crawford while also essentially swapping Ricky for Teague. Adding Gibson was a huge upgrade over Gorgui in our starting lineup while moving Gorgui to the bench substantially strengthened our second unit. Adding Crawford was another tremendous upgrade to our second unit. Both Gibson and Crawford have also no doubt helped the younger players from last season through their leadership and mentorship both on and of the court. Even though I don't like Teague's contract, I have long since conceded that Teague was an overall upgrade over Ricky as our starting PG and I get the sense that Teague is just starting to hit his stride after a period of adjusting to a new team and then coming back from his knee injury. Finally, some of the players back from last season are clearly better. Towns is much better defensively than last season -- a product of experience but probably also a result of Butler's presence both on and off the court. And Tyus Jones is clearly better as he's proven to be an excellent second unit PG who can also play well as a starter if called upon.

Last season's team was actually playing pretty well before Zach and Belly went down. Take that team with a better Towns and the offseason additions mentioned above. That's why I still have hope this team can hang on and finish in the top 6. Unfortunately, I still see us sliding out of the top 6 if Jimmy misses all or most of our remaining games. And as I've mentioned before, if we don't finish in the top 6 I would just as soon see the Wolves slide to #9 and get another lottery pick rather than watch this team get demoralized by a lopsided sweep at the hands of the Warriors or Rockets.

monsterpile wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

Camden wrote:

Q12543 wrote:The team has basically been playing .500 ball the last 10+ games with Jimmy, so I highly doubt we can hold it together the rest of the way. Sorry, but I think this pretty much is the beginning of the end in terms of our playoff hopes this year. The West is too tough and we don't have enough padding between us and the 9th seed.

It very well could be [the end of Minnesota's playoff hopes], but I still see one All-Star -- perhaps All-NBA -- center, one former All-Star guard, and one inconsistent/inefficient but gifted volume scorer on the roster. The optimist in me says I'd like to think that Towns can take this team on his back and lead the way, but he might be too inexperienced for that load. I'd also like to see Teague pick up the scoring load. We know he's capable of 15-16 a night. We definitely need Aggressive Jeff going forward.

And then there's whatever we're going to get from Wiggins...

It might be enough to hang on.

I'm less worried about the offense. It's the defense...we're going to go from bad to worse. KAT can score 30+ per night if he'd like. It won't matter if they can't stop anyone.

On some nights can the Wolves have enough firepower to just outscore some teams? They might. Look at what Teague has done the past 4 games (fun to cherrypick). 22 points per game on high efficiency with 25 total assists and total of 8 turnovers. Belly can give this team some spacing and that could help Towns, Wiggins and Teague have more space to operate. Crawford is gonna play more and he can fill it up. There could be a night when 4 guys put up 20 point games. I agree the defense is my concern but this team even without Butler has some firepower to put the ball in the hoop. Without Butler they can probably play a bit differently offensively. They took 35 3's last night. It was against the Bulls but still fun to see. I'm not saying get your hopes up but there have been teams that have won plenty of games basically just outscoring teams on various nights. We will see. We need some scoreboard watching games to go our way to help out.

Monster --

I agree that this team, even without Butler, has the firepower to outscore teams. Last night was a perfect example as the Wolves put up 120 points. Note that they scored 120 points even though both KAT and Belly grossly underperformed from behind the arc - KAT going 0-5 and Belly 1-6.

The Wolves defense surprisingly good last night. Although the Bulls shore 46.7% from the field, the Wolves did hold them to 102 points and 26% from behind the arc. I thought last night might have been Wiggins' best game of the season defensively. He was in total lock-down mode the entire game. Teague was pesky and Taj was Taj. Towns had one of his worst games defensively -- looking too much like he did the first half of the season. That can't happen again if this team is going to finish in the top 6.

I'm not going to get my hope up too high. But Cam made some good points about what we have even with Butler out, including an allstar potential all-NBA type center (Towns), a former all-star PG still in his prime (Teague), a great young volume scoring wing with all-NBA talent who has shown he can be a great lock-down defender (Wiggins), a former 6th man award winner off the bench still playing at that level (Crawford) and a super solid consistent starting PF (Gibson).

So it's important to note even without Butler, this isn't the team from last season. Thankfully, Thibs didn't just add Butler to the roster last summer. He added Gibson and Crawford while also essentially swapping Ricky for Teague. Adding Gibson was a huge upgrade over Gorgui in our starting lineup while moving Gorgui to the bench substantially strengthened our second unit. Adding Crawford was another tremendous upgrade to our second unit. Both Gibson and Crawford have also no doubt helped the younger players from last season through their leadership and mentorship both on and of the court. Even though I don't like Teague's contract, I have long since conceded that Teague was an overall upgrade over Ricky as our starting PG and I get the sense that Teague is just starting to hit his stride after a period of adjusting to a new team and then coming back from his knee injury. Finally, some of the players back from last season are clearly better. Towns is much better defensively than last season -- a product of experience but probably also a result of Butler's presence both on and off the court. And Tyus Jones is clearly better as he's proven to be an excellent second unit PG who can also play well as a starter if called upon.

Last season's team was actually playing pretty well before Zach and Belly went down. Take that team with a better Towns and the offseason additions mentioned above. That's why I still have hope this team can hang on and finish in the top 6. Unfortunately, I still see us sliding out of the top 6 if Jimmy misses all or most of our remaining games. And as I've mentioned before, if we don't finish in the top 6 I would just as soon see the Wolves slide to #9 and get another lottery pick rather than watch this team get demoralized by a lopsided sweep at the hands of the Warriors or Rockets.

Good points Lip. Things really went sideways last year when Belly was out. Rush did what he needed to do last year but if Belly can stay healthy he can give the Wolves more at SF than Rush IMO. There are parallels to last year after Zach went down. Towns Wiggins and Rubio all got more shots and put up some good numbers. Offensively Teague is a guy that has more of a history of being productive as a scorer with more usuage.

I agree with you Crawford as an offensive player really gives a boast to this squad off the bench it hasn't had with this latest rebuild for more except maybe a few weeks of Mo Williams? Crawford's ability to create and hit shots is such a threat. I know he can be bad at times and frustrating to watch when you want the ball to be shared but man the guy can just flat out ball. It's nice to have a guy with that skill and swagger and Jon K said recently that Crawford has been a big time asset on and off the floor helping young guys out and leading.

lipoli390 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

Camden wrote:

Q12543 wrote:The team has basically been playing .500 ball the last 10+ games with Jimmy, so I highly doubt we can hold it together the rest of the way. Sorry, but I think this pretty much is the beginning of the end in terms of our playoff hopes this year. The West is too tough and we don't have enough padding between us and the 9th seed.

It very well could be [the end of Minnesota's playoff hopes], but I still see one All-Star -- perhaps All-NBA -- center, one former All-Star guard, and one inconsistent/inefficient but gifted volume scorer on the roster. The optimist in me says I'd like to think that Towns can take this team on his back and lead the way, but he might be too inexperienced for that load. I'd also like to see Teague pick up the scoring load. We know he's capable of 15-16 a night. We definitely need Aggressive Jeff going forward.

And then there's whatever we're going to get from Wiggins...

It might be enough to hang on.

I'm less worried about the offense. It's the defense...we're going to go from bad to worse. KAT can score 30+ per night if he'd like. It won't matter if they can't stop anyone.

On some nights can the Wolves have enough firepower to just outscore some teams? They might. Look at what Teague has done the past 4 games (fun to cherrypick). 22 points per game on high efficiency with 25 total assists and total of 8 turnovers. Belly can give this team some spacing and that could help Towns, Wiggins and Teague have more space to operate. Crawford is gonna play more and he can fill it up. There could be a night when 4 guys put up 20 point games. I agree the defense is my concern but this team even without Butler has some firepower to put the ball in the hoop. Without Butler they can probably play a bit differently offensively. They took 35 3's last night. It was against the Bulls but still fun to see. I'm not saying get your hopes up but there have been teams that have won plenty of games basically just outscoring teams on various nights. We will see. We need some scoreboard watching games to go our way to help out.

Monster --

I agree that this team, even without Butler, has the firepower to outscore teams. Last night was a perfect example as the Wolves put up 120 points. Note that they scored 120 points even though both KAT and Belly grossly underperformed from behind the arc - KAT going 0-5 and Belly 1-6.

The Wolves defense surprisingly good last night. Although the Bulls shore 46.7% from the field, the Wolves did hold them to 102 points and 26% from behind the arc. I thought last night might have been Wiggins' best game of the season defensively. He was in total lock-down mode the entire game. Teague was pesky and Taj was Taj. Towns had one of his worst games defensively -- looking too much like he did the first half of the season. That can't happen again if this team is going to finish in the top 6.

I'm not going to get my hope up too high. But Cam made some good points about what we have even with Butler out, including an allstar potential all-NBA type center (Towns), a former all-star PG still in his prime (Teague), a great young volume scoring wing with all-NBA talent who has shown he can be a great lock-down defender (Wiggins), a former 6th man award winner off the bench still playing at that level (Crawford) and a super solid consistent starting PF (Gibson).

So it's important to note even without Butler, this isn't the team from last season. Thankfully, Thibs didn't just add Butler to the roster last summer. He added Gibson and Crawford while also essentially swapping Ricky for Teague. Adding Gibson was a huge upgrade over Gorgui in our starting lineup while moving Gorgui to the bench substantially strengthened our second unit. Adding Crawford was another tremendous upgrade to our second unit. Both Gibson and Crawford have also no doubt helped the younger players from last season through their leadership and mentorship both on and of the court. Even though I don't like Teague's contract, I have long since conceded that Teague was an overall upgrade over Ricky as our starting PG and I get the sense that Teague is just starting to hit his stride after a period of adjusting to a new team and then coming back from his knee injury. Finally, some of the players back from last season are clearly better. Towns is much better defensively than last season -- a product of experience but probably also a result of Butler's presence both on and off the court. And Tyus Jones is clearly better as he's proven to be an excellent second unit PG who can also play well as a starter if called upon.

Last season's team was actually playing pretty well before Zach and Belly went down. Take that team with a better Towns and the offseason additions mentioned above. That's why I still have hope this team can hang on and finish in the top 6. Unfortunately, I still see us sliding out of the top 6 if Jimmy misses all or most of our remaining games. And as I've mentioned before, if we don't finish in the top 6 I would just as soon see the Wolves slide to #9 and get another lottery pick rather than watch this team get demoralized by a lopsided sweep at the hands of the Warriors or Rockets.

Good points Lip. Things really went sideways last year when Belly was out. Rush did what he needed to do last year but if Belly can stay healthy he can give the Wolves more at SF than Rush IMO. There are parallels to last year after Zach went down. Towns Wiggins and Rubio all got more shots and put up some good numbers. Offensively Teague is a guy that has more of a history of being productive as a scorer with more usuage.

I agree with you Crawford as an offensive player really gives a boast to this squad off the bench it hasn't had with this latest rebuild for more except maybe a few weeks of Mo Williams? Crawford's ability to create and hit shots is such a threat. I know he can be bad at times and frustrating to watch when you want the ball to be shared but man the guy can just flat out ball. It's nice to have a guy with that skill and swagger and Jon K said recently that Crawford has been a big time asset on and off the floor helping young guys out and leading.

Speaking of Crawford's leadership, I forgot to mention in my game report what Crawford did last night. As you recall, KAT was really struggling in the first half and initially in the second half last night. What bothered me was how disengaged and larthargic he looked on both ends. At some point, I can't remember exactly when, Crawford pulled Towns aside and gave him what looked like a really animated pep talk -- talking and patting KAT on the chest -- right after Towns drove for a contested layup on which was fouled. From that point on, KAT was far more engaged and aggressive. And as a result, KAT ended making a big contribution to the win.

Camden wrote:Very random comment, but do you all remember when this board was divided over whether or not Kevin Garnett's leadership and mentoring was worth anything that second time he was in Minnesota?

Those of us that thought it was widely overhyped and practically just words argued that his teaching and mentoring wasn't doing much of anything because he wasn't on the court and producing.

The reason I bring all of this up is because I think Taj Gibson [and of course Jimmy Butler, but I wanna shine the light on Tajy-Woo] has been invaluable to this team, on and off the floor.

Camden0916 wrote:Very random comment, but do you all remember when this board was divided over whether or not Kevin Garnett's leadership and mentoring was worth anything that second time he was in Minnesota?

Those of us that thought it was widely overhyped and practically just words argued that his teaching and mentoring wasn't doing much of anything because he wasn't on the court and producing.

The reason I bring all of this up is because I think Taj Gibson [and of course Jimmy Butler, but I wanna shine the light on Tajy-Woo] has been invaluable to this team, on and off the floor.

monsterpile wrote:

Thanks for that observation Lip. During the broad cast Jim Peterson said he felt like a turning point for Towns was around when he had that Block on Lavine. I can't remember exactly what point that was and whether it was around the sequence you observed. I'm not gonna suggest Towns was good early or anything (he had some ilatipusly bad defensive possessions) but if he hits a couple of those 3's he took things look quite a bit better and most of them were good shots.

sjm34 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

Thanks for that observation Lip. During the broad cast Jim Peterson said he felt like a turning point for Towns was around when he had that Block on Lavine. I can't remember exactly what point that was and whether it was around the sequence you observed. I'm not gonna suggest Towns was good early or anything (he had some ilatipusly bad defensive possessions) but if he hits a couple of those 3's he took things look quite a bit better and most of them were good shots.

WHAT????