Can We Have a Thoughtful, Considerate Discussion about This?

[Lipoli390]

I've enjoyed reading the discussion.

Monster has already pointed out that, as threshold matter, the CBA effectively prevents us from trading Wiggins this season. So the earliest we could trade him would be this upcoming summer. So the only realistic question is whether we should trade Wiggins next summer or sometime thereafter and, if so, for who.

Regarding whether we should consider trading Wiggins next summer or thereafter, Kahns' last post captures my thinking for the most part. Of course, whether we should trade Wiggins or anyone else ultimately depends on who/what we could get in return. With that obvious caveat, the following 5 factors argue against trading Wiggins next summer absent the proverbial "offer we can't refuse:"

1. Wiggins Age. I know it's his 4th season and I'm as frustrated as anyone by the fact that Wiggins hasn't yet come close to living up to his billing. However, at age 22 with 1 season of college under his belt, I think it's still too early to assume that he's hit his ceiling and will never be an all-star caliber player. Having already established himself as a near elite scorer, he has shown significant and sustained improvement on the defensive end so far this season. That improvement, when considered in conjunction with his proven scoring ability, obvious upside and still young age, argues for sticking with him.

2. Championship Aspirations. Wiggins' age as a factor goes beyond what it suggests about his potential to improve. Wiggins and KAT, at age 22, give us the sort of longer-term trajectory needed to eventually have a realistic chance at competing for a championship. It's clear we're not going to get by the Warriors or even the Rockets this season or even next. But as Kahns illustrated, 3 years from now at the start of the 2020-21 season, the Warriors 2 best players (Curry and Durant) will be 32 years old while their 3rd and 4th best will be 30. I suspect Curry's ankle issues will have caught up to him by then. Houston's Chris Paul will be 35. We don't know where LeBron will be then, by if he's still playing in the NBA he'll be 35. In contrast, Wiggins and KAT will be 25 and just entering their prime years. Assuming Jimmy Butler stays, he'll be 31 and probably still playing at a very high level. KAT has already shown he's a perennial allstar and potential future hall of famer. He has also demonstrated the competitive drive and intelligence that suggest more substantial improvement in the next few years. If Wiggins just improves modestly as the 3rd option among our core three, this team will be well-positioned as a legitimate championship contender.

3. Wiggins Role. KAT's obvious talent and the acquisition of Butler eliminate the need to rely on Wiggins as the best or 2nd best player on the team. As a 3rd wheel he's an almost perfect fit because he doesn't have a huge ego or alpha personality, which means he meshes well with our two alphas - Jimmy and KAT. The key for Wiggins is the continued development of his defense and rebounding. If he can become a consistently top-notch defender and grab 5-6 boards a game, while still being the natural scoring threat he's always been, then he is almost the perfect 3rd part of a championship-caliber core three.

4. Wiggins' Durability. As we look around the League and see one major injury after another to key players, the value of Wiggins' astounding durability becomes even more apparent. It goes without saying that regardless of how great the player is, that player has no value if not on the court.

5. Keeping Butler. I think keeping Wiggins through next season will help us ensure that we re-sign Jimmy. As we've seen, Wiggins is good enough in the near term to help this team compete for a top 4-6 seed (maybe even 3rd seed) in the West. That probably won't win us a championship or even get us into the Finals this season or next, but it will probably be enough to persuade Jimmy Butler to re-sign at the end of next season to continue as our #1 or #2 guy along with KAT and Wiggins. Yes, we could trade Wiggins and end up no worse, but Wiggins is the bird in hand.

I'll confess that I would have traded Wiggins for Kyrie. I continue to believe that, if we had kept Ricky, we could have packaged Wiggins, Rubio and a future 2nd rounder for Kyrie. Alas we'll never know. If we could get a comparable deal for someone like Kyrie -- a true star age 25 or under, then I'd be all in. But unless that sort of deal presents itself, I'm convinced we should stick with Wiggins at least through next season. If his defensive improvement continues, then he'll always be tradeable down the road given his incredible talent and durability. In my view, now is not the time.

[Coolbreeze44]

Nice post Lip - lots of good points in there.

[WildWolf2813]

If that was the idea, then the team shoulda never gave Wiggins a max deal to begin with. They didn't have to. This is the hill Thibs is gonna figuratively die on. If Wiggins can't cut it, neither will this team.

[rapsuperstar31]

I think you can certainly have the conversation if we should trade Wiggins or not. I could see trading Wiggins for someone in a sign and trade such as Paul George if Butler gets in his ear to play with him and Kat. The problem with that would be I'm not sure if it actually makes us better than Houston for the 2nd best team in the west and with Butler George being around 28 it puts our championship window closing around the same time as Golden State's where if we kept both Wiggins and Kat our championship window extends beyond Golden States and Houston's stars getting older. You could make the argument maybe we trade him for a younger player to extend that championship window, Philly seems to have always liked Wiggins maybe they trade Fultz for him. While I thought Fultz was going to be a star there is no guarantee he comes back form his injury. Milwaukee dosen't seem to want to max Parker do we take the chance on someone that has had multiple acl injuries and do a sign and trade for someone that but might be a better fit next to Butler? Knowing that its going to be hard to compete with the top teams for the next handful of years, you can also argue the question should we be looking at moving Butler at some point? I'm not saying we move him now, but say we give him a super max 5 year contract, is he really going to be worth close 45 million dollars when he is 34 years old?

[worldK]

I also think it's just bizarre that a 4th year wing suddenly can't shoot free throws reliably. 63% from the line. Really!? How does that happen?

He's just such an enigma....

I think it has something to do with him changing/adjusting his mechanics this off season. If you watched wiggins shooting form now, he shoots or release it on the left side of his forehead. Before, it was more in the middle and in his college years, it was leaning on his right. So he has been tinkering with his mechanics for a while now. I think his form now is better but it hasnt resulted in better shooting.

[kekgeek]

If that was the idea, then the team shoulda never gave Wiggins a max deal to begin with. They didn't have to. This is the hill Thibs is gonna figuratively die on. If Wiggins can't cut it, neither will this team.

Because some team was going to offer him a max, and they could add so many more stipulation into the contract like the Kings did to the Wizards for Otto Porter. Making the contract so much harder to move.

[Coolbreeze44]

I also think it's just bizarre that a 4th year wing suddenly can't shoot free throws reliably. 63% from the line. Really!? How does that happen?

He's just such an enigma....

I think it has something to do with him changing/adjusting his mechanics this off season. If you watched wiggins shooting form now, he shoots or release it on the left side of his forehead. Before, it was more in the middle and in his college years, it was leaning on his right. So he has been tinkering with his mechanics for a while now. I think his form now is better but it hasnt resulted in better shooting.

I haven't noticed a change in form this year, but it definitely shouldn't be released on the left side of his head.

[WildWolf2813]

If that was the idea, then the team shoulda never gave Wiggins a max deal to begin with. They didn't have to. This is the hill Thibs is gonna figuratively die on. If Wiggins can't cut it, neither will this team.

Because some team was going to offer him a max, and they could add so many more stipulation into the contract like the Kings did to the Wizards for Otto Porter. Making the contract so much harder to move.

If the idea is to give him a max with the idea of trading him later, don't give him a max. It's not as if this deal is going to be easy to move anyway and if by some chance he lives up to it you won't want to move him. These are the tough decisions Glen is still too scared to make.

[kekgeek]

If that was the idea, then the team shoulda never gave Wiggins a max deal to begin with. They didn't have to. This is the hill Thibs is gonna figuratively die on. If Wiggins can't cut it, neither will this team.

Because some team was going to offer him a max, and they could add so many more stipulation into the contract like the Kings did to the Wizards for Otto Porter. Making the contract so much harder to move.

If the idea is to give him a max with the idea of trading him later, don't give him a max. It's not as if this deal is going to be easy to move anyway and if by some chance he lives up to it you won't want to move him. These are the tough decisions Glen is still too scared to make.

We don't have cap space even if we didn't resign Wiggins, he was going to get a max from somebody else if he hit RFA where he could of gotten difficult stipulations to make it harder to move him. So it makes no sense to let a 22 year old with legit talent just walk when you can sign him to a max and if it never pans out you can bring some type of asset back for him instead of being left empty handed (like the Clippers did with Blake).

[Wolvesfan21]

1. So they could trade him now and only have to deal with the $8M or whatever his contract is this season? If you want to trade him... I assume that makes him a lot more movable.

2. How many teams are out there who want to pay Wiggins the max for the next 5 years?

3. This is the Wolves best season in 13 seasons... how is the fanbase going to respond to possibly taking a step back (after only 54 games of decent success) with this trade with the other eye on the future? Don't we want to enjoy the here and now instead of the "promise of hope" tomorrow?



[Note: I'd also add that it's doubtful for it to happen considering the Wolves just signed the guy a few months ago... but the Blake Griffin "You're a Clipper for life! ... or at least until we trade you 50 games later" saga has taught us how fickle loyalty can be.]

Wiggins can't be traded (maybe) yet? When I tried to do some proposed trades on the ESPN trade machine they would not let me do ANY with Wiggins at all. Maybe cause his coming salary is ballooning? IDK.

I thought I read somewhere Wiggins couldn't be traded till Summer.

IDK, I didn't read every response, just the first page or so. Maybe the salary has to match next years or something. Anyone?