CoolBreeze44 wrote:One thing is undisputable: Thibs team this year would consistently go through long stretches where they just couldn't score. Scoring is relatively important in the NBA. And it's not like he didn't have the talent. He just sucks on the offensive side of the ball. I don't see any reason to gnash your teeth or wring your hands over not being able to get this guy. He's just not that great.
No other coaches go through long streches where they couldn't do something? Well the Spurs got bounced in the 1st round, Pop must suck. The Clippers choked their playoff series away, Doc must suck. The Hawks got swept, they must suck. The Mavs wern't that good, Carlise must suck.
I'm sorry, but the correlations you make here are ridiculous. You're better than that.
well I guess it's no, "he'll run players outta town even though there's never been one such case" but I'll try better next time
Maybe start with talking about how Bud was going to be our 3rd offensive option at the beginning of the season last year. He couldn't even get on the court until the whole team was injured. Nice call.
He was the second half the year!
OMG, I was just waiting for you to say that. Memo to Alex: You were dead wrong. Deal with it.
Who cares. Should we go back in history to point out where everybody was wrong and continuously point it out to them?
If I gave a flying fuck, maybe I could scour your history. How did the Bud thing even enter this thread where we had a nice discussion going?
Go back and look at the dynamics of this thread. I will always be civil until someone doesn't offer me the same courtesy. If you get into my shit, or call me a name, or respond sarcastically or with hostility, all bets are off. That's what happened here, and that's why I responded with the Bud reference. Not sure what dog you have in the fight though. Other than you are constantly hunting for a reason to jump my junk.
Back to the point... which players did Thibodeau alienate?
Camden wrote:Name five coaches better than Thibs. Hell, name 10. Do it.
Of course it's just my opinion, but i'll name the coaches I think are better:
1) Pop
2) Kerr
3) Stevens
4) Carlisle
5) McHale
6) Jeff Van Gundy
7) Spoelstra
8) Rivers (Begrudgingly but he is)
9) Karl
10) Hornacek
There are several out of work or recently retired coaches that I would take over him too. There are also several who are in the same class, but I wouldn't necessarily rate above Thibs.
I think many of those guys are good coaches. But I'm more interested in the several others you think are not currently hired or in the same class.
That's where I think Thibs is getting shortchanged. But maybe I'm wrong. Who's on that list?
AbeVigodaLive wrote:
CoolBreeze44 wrote:
Camden wrote:Name five coaches better than Thibs. Hell, name 10. Do it.
Of course it's just my opinion, but i'll name the coaches I think are better:
1) Pop
2) Kerr
3) Stevens
4) Carlisle
5) McHale
6) Jeff Van Gundy
7) Spoelstra
8) Rivers (Begrudgingly but he is)
9) Karl
10) Hornacek
There are several out of work or recently retired coaches that I would take over him too. There are also several who are in the same class, but I wouldn't necessarily rate above Thibs.
I think many of those guys are good coaches. But I'm more interested in the several others you think are not currently hired or in the same class.
That's where I think Thibs is getting shortchanged. But maybe I'm wrong. Who's on that list?
I'm not short changing him at all.
So, can you list the other guys recently retired or out of coaching better than him... and the other guys currently coaching on his level?
Camden wrote:Name five coaches better than Thibs. Hell, name 10. Do it.
Of course it's just my opinion, but i'll name the coaches I think are better:
1) Pop
2) Kerr
3) Stevens
4) Carlisle
5) McHale
6) Jeff Van Gundy
7) Spoelstra
8) Rivers (Begrudgingly but he is)
9) Karl
10) Hornacek
There are several out of work or recently retired coaches that I would take over him too. There are also several who are in the same class, but I wouldn't necessarily rate above Thibs.
I think many of those guys are good coaches. But I'm more interested in the several others you think are not currently hired or in the same class.
That's where I think Thibs is getting shortchanged. But maybe I'm wrong. Who's on that list?
AbeVigodaLive wrote:
CoolBreeze44 wrote:
Camden wrote:Name five coaches better than Thibs. Hell, name 10. Do it.
Of course it's just my opinion, but i'll name the coaches I think are better:
1) Pop
2) Kerr
3) Stevens
4) Carlisle
5) McHale
6) Jeff Van Gundy
7) Spoelstra
8) Rivers (Begrudgingly but he is)
9) Karl
10) Hornacek
There are several out of work or recently retired coaches that I would take over him too. There are also several who are in the same class, but I wouldn't necessarily rate above Thibs.
I think many of those guys are good coaches. But I'm more interested in the several others you think are not currently hired or in the same class.
That's where I think Thibs is getting shortchanged. But maybe I'm wrong. Who's on that list?
I'm not short changing him at all.
So, can you list the other guys recently retired or out of coaching better than him... and the other guys currently coaching on his level?
CoolBreeze44 wrote:One thing is undisputable: Thibs team this year would consistently go through long stretches where they just couldn't score. Scoring is relatively important in the NBA. And it's not like he didn't have the talent. He just sucks on the offensive side of the ball. I don't see any reason to gnash your teeth or wring your hands over not being able to get this guy. He's just not that great.
No other coaches go through long streches where they couldn't do something? Well the Spurs got bounced in the 1st round, Pop must suck. The Clippers choked their playoff series away, Doc must suck. The Hawks got swept, they must suck. The Mavs wern't that good, Carlise must suck.
I'm sorry, but the correlations you make here are ridiculous. You're better than that.
well I guess it's no, "he'll run players outta town even though there's never been one such case" but I'll try better next time
Maybe start with talking about how Bud was going to be our 3rd offensive option at the beginning of the season last year. He couldn't even get on the court until the whole team was injured. Nice call.
He was the second half the year!
OMG, I was just waiting for you to say that. Memo to Alex: You were dead wrong. Deal with it.
Who cares. Should we go back in history to point out where everybody was wrong and continuously point it out to them?
If I gave a flying fuck, maybe I could scour your history. How did the Bud thing even enter this thread where we had a nice discussion going?
Go back and look at the dynamics of this thread. I will always be civil until someone doesn't offer me the same courtesy. If you get into my shit, or call me a name, or respond sarcastically or with hostility, all bets are off. That's what happened here, and that's why I responded with the Bud reference. Not sure what dog you have in the fight though. Other than you are constantly hunting for a reason to jump my junk.
Back to the point... which players did Thibodeau alienate?
But yet you have said multiple times that a reason why you're anti-Thibs is because you wouldn't want him to alienate our star player...
And he has no history of alienating players...
Actually, he has a history of the opposite. All-Star caliber players that have worked with Thibs have been vocal about how much they love and appreciate the guy.
So, me thinks you were talking out of your ass on that specific element of the topic. I can agree about his offensive shortcomings and SOME of the coaches you named that were better (Pop, Carlisle, Kerr, Bud; that's literally it), but the alienating thing is so far off base it's absurd.
To be fair to Cool there have been multiple media reports that Thibs alientates lots of people, players included. A good response is to say that players haven't done it publically, which seems to be true. But that would really go against the athlete's code. Where there's smoke there usually is some fire. Who knows how true it is.
I am not sold on any one coach being the savior of this franchise as we still have a talent problem. I think this is more about optics then anything. We have been defensively challenged for a while. Here comes the best systems based active defensive coach. I think Flip owes it to the fans to at least kick the tires or present a rationale as to why not and be proactive about it.
thedoper wrote:To be fair to Cool there have been multiple media reports that Thibs alientates lots of people, players included. A good response is to say that players haven't done it publically, which seems to be true. But that would really go against the athlete's code. Where there's smoke there usually is some fire. Who knows how true it is.
I am not sold on any one coach being the savior of this franchise as we still have a talent problem. I think this is more about optics then anything. We have been defensively challenged for a while. Here comes the best systems based active defensive coach. I think Flip owes it to the fans to at least kick the tires or present a rationale as to why not and be proactive about it.
There could be reports. So post them. It's not hard. That's what we do. We make claims... and they have more merit if you can back them up.
Plus, to be fair, were those reports leaked by Chicago management. You have to wonder about the leaked stories during the playoffs and the toll they took on the team.
[Note: I have to think that a coach that runs too many and too hard practices would have more of a negative reputation with players than he's had (reportedly). It will be interesting if more stories come out now that Thibodeau is gone. I wouldn't be surprised. I just don't think we can make those claims UNTIL there's something substantive behind them.]
khans2k5 wrote:It's simple. I don't care about the regular season. It's nice if you have a good team, but my ultimate goal is playoff success which the guy is proven to not have. You can blame injuries and Lebron for it. I think Thibs coaching style has a decent amount to do with the fact he never has a healthy team come the playoffs and quite frankly Lebron didn't play well in that series this year and Chicago still looked out matched. Defensively they have had the firepower to stop Lebron. It's their lack of offense that has always stopped them from beating Lebron and Thibs is the main culprit of that because he is a bad offensive coach. I'd be totally fine just making the postseason dance as a 6 or 7 seed and trying to do some damage than going all out in the regular season and have nothing left in the tank. The last thing I'll say is you don't get to give Lebron credit for carrying this team while simultaneously giving Thibs an out for losing to Lebron this year. 1 player can't win a series by himself so if Lebron is playing with garbage that makes Thibs look worse.
So your talking abut 4? current head coaches that have had more playoff success that he has? And your saying this as a fan from a franchise that has only advanced past the 1st round once in their entire history? Jesus what is wrong with you
He has a sub .500 record in the East playoffs during one of the worst spans of basketball that conference has ever produced. They've never had an easy series. Every single one has been close. I'm not going to apologize for wanting a better coach. If he's such a great coach why did he get fired? Because he wasn't good enough. We could have hired Karl if we just wanted to win regular season games and make it to the playoffs. Most of you were against that strategy so why is Thibs so different when everything he did was while coaching in one of the weakest conferences of all time?
So he lost to the Heat twice when they went on to win the title both times, lost to the Wiz when they had no healthy players, and the 76ers once when Rose went down? That's the standard you have to have for our next coach when we've had Rambis, Flip, Whitman in the past few years?
Just keep making excuses. Nothing is ever his fault. It was totally out of his control. It's not like Miami lost 2 of those 4 finals proving to be beatable.
khans2k5 wrote:It's simple. I don't care about the regular season. It's nice if you have a good team, but my ultimate goal is playoff success which the guy is proven to not have. You can blame injuries and Lebron for it. I think Thibs coaching style has a decent amount to do with the fact he never has a healthy team come the playoffs and quite frankly Lebron didn't play well in that series this year and Chicago still looked out matched. Defensively they have had the firepower to stop Lebron. It's their lack of offense that has always stopped them from beating Lebron and Thibs is the main culprit of that because he is a bad offensive coach. I'd be totally fine just making the postseason dance as a 6 or 7 seed and trying to do some damage than going all out in the regular season and have nothing left in the tank. The last thing I'll say is you don't get to give Lebron credit for carrying this team while simultaneously giving Thibs an out for losing to Lebron this year. 1 player can't win a series by himself so if Lebron is playing with garbage that makes Thibs look worse.
So your talking abut 4? current head coaches that have had more playoff success that he has? And your saying this as a fan from a franchise that has only advanced past the 1st round once in their entire history? Jesus what is wrong with you
He has a sub .500 record in the East playoffs during one of the worst spans of basketball that conference has ever produced. They've never had an easy series. Every single one has been close. I'm not going to apologize for wanting a better coach. If he's such a great coach why did he get fired? Because he wasn't good enough. We could have hired Karl if we just wanted to win regular season games and make it to the playoffs. Most of you were against that strategy so why is Thibs so different when everything he did was while coaching in one of the weakest conferences of all time?
So he lost to the Heat twice when they went on to win the title both times, lost to the Wiz when they had no healthy players, and the 76ers once when Rose went down? That's the standard you have to have for our next coach when we've had Rambis, Flip, Whitman in the past few years?
Just keep making excuses. Nothing is ever his fault. It was totally out of his control. It's not like Miami lost 2 of those 4 finals proving to be beatable.
I thought Miami was clearly the better team both of those years. Didn't you?
[Note: Yes. I realize that coaches, like players, need to transcend that to be an all-time great. But beating the more talented team with the league's best player is actually relatively rare in the playoffs. Likewise, I think Thibodeau and the Bulls went out very poorly in these playoffs, losing 3 straight when they were in the driver's seat.]]
