Minnesota Sports Forum

I wouldn't over think this too much. If The NCAA didn't have such bullshit rules and Wiseman played all year he'd be the runaway #1 pick, it wouldn't even be close.

If he is there, you take him. DLO and Wiseman on the fast break and rim runs would be a lot of fun to watch. You can stagger KAT and Wiseman a bit so there is always an elite rebounder on the floor. I like the offensive and defensive mix with DLO/Beasley/ Okogie or Culver/ KAT / Wiseman.

Outside of him, it is a total crapshoot so you trust Rosas. I'd look for trades, first a decent controlled 3/4 vet (hey RoCo!), otherwise trade back to mid first and getting a future first would be suitable as well. At this point, a team shoukd probably look at getting 2022 or 2023 firsts as there might not even be a college season.

TheFuture wrote:I wouldn't over think this too much. If The NCAA didn't have such bullshit rules and Wiseman played all year he'd be the runaway #1 pick, it wouldn't even be close.

If he is there, you take him.

Outside of him, it is a total crapshoot so you trust Rosas. I'd look for trades, first a decent controlled 3/4 vet (hey RoCo!), otherwise trade back to mid first and getting a future first would be suitable as well. At this point, a team shoukd probably look at getting 2022 or 2023 firsts as there might not even be a college season.

There have been other guys that were supposed to be locks for top 5 picks and...they ended up not being that good so I think there is some fair skepticism. Meanwhile I read a mock draft from someone that wrote for a legit media outlet that had Wisemen dropping all the way to the Kings at 13. Do I think that mock draft was well done? Not particularly. Do I think Wiseman will drop that far? No. Do I think he is the best player in this draft? No...but I don't really have a good sense about this draft Near the top either. Some like you think Wiseman is the clear guy to take. I'm not knocking your opinion just saying I can absolutely see the other side. Once upon a time Nerlens Noel was supposed to the best player in his draft. He dropped and that looked like a steal and now he is basically a nice rotational big that can't seem to be good enough to start. Wiseman is more physically gifted but just sayin.

The Ringer had an article that said this draft doesn't suck it just doesn't have the star power. They said teams can likely get excellent players to help built around their star players. They think it's deep in guys that will be worthwhile for years. Good teams have players like that and it's required to get them at some point. We do still need another high level player but we also need guys to build around Towns and Russell and those guys are players that can help you trade for another high level player. I like swinging for the fences but if we can get a couple worthwhile guys on base I'd take it. We have 3 of the top 30 something picks. That should give us some good chances of adding to the talent of this team if Rosas and company are just reasonably competent which should be reasonable to hope for but this is the Wolves... lol

It might be more difficult to see the BPA making sense like it has in the past. It might be more like the NFL where teams pick much more than NBA based on system and traits they really like. There might be a big bin of guys that are roughly equally talented but you have to pick the guy you think fits your team the best. Because of that it may still lead to some teams being willing to make deals or they think they see something special in a particular player and are willing to go up and get them. I have a hard time wanting to spend too much time assessing talent in this draft especially since I don't even know when it will take place.

monsterpile wrote:

TheFuture wrote:I wouldn't over think this too much. If The NCAA didn't have such bullshit rules and Wiseman played all year he'd be the runaway #1 pick, it wouldn't even be close.

If he is there, you take him.

Outside of him, it is a total crapshoot so you trust Rosas. I'd look for trades, first a decent controlled 3/4 vet (hey RoCo!), otherwise trade back to mid first and getting a future first would be suitable as well. At this point, a team shoukd probably look at getting 2022 or 2023 firsts as there might not even be a college season.

There have been other guys that were supposed to be locks for top 5 picks and...they ended up not being that good so I think there is some fair skepticism. Meanwhile I read a mock draft from someone that wrote for a legit media outlet that had Wisemen dropping all the way to the Kings at 13. Do I think that mock draft was well done? Not particularly. Do I think Wiseman will drop that far? No. Do I think he is the best player in this draft? No...but I don't really have a good sense about this draft Near the top either. Some like you think Wiseman is the clear guy to take. I'm not knocking your opinion just saying I can absolutely see the other side. Once upon a time Nerlens Noel was supposed to the best player in his draft. He dropped and that looked like a steal and now he is basically a nice rotational big that can't seem to be good enough to start. Wiseman is more physically gifted but just sayin.

The Ringer had an article that said this draft doesn't suck it just doesn't have the star power. They said teams can likely get excellent players to help built around their star players. They think it's deep in guys that will be worthwhile for years. Good teams have players like that and it's required to get them at some point. We do still need another high level player but we also need guys to build around Towns and Russell and those guys are players that can help you trade for another high level player. I like swinging for the fences but if we can get a couple worthwhile guys on base I'd take it. We have 3 of the top 30 something picks. That should give us some good chances of adding to the talent of this team if Rosas and company are just reasonably competent which should be reasonable to hope for but this is the Wolves... lol

It might be more difficult to see the BPA making sense like it has in the past. It might be more like the NFL where teams pick much more than NBA based on system and traits they really like. There might be a big bin of guys that are roughly equally talented but you have to pick the guy you think fits your team the best. Because of that it may still lead to some teams being willing to make deals or they think they see something special in a particular player and are willing to go up and get them. I have a hard time wanting to spend too much time assessing talent in this draft especially since I don't even know when it will take place.

Assuming we keep both picks and maintain our position in the top 3, I go with the guy with the most upside - to me that is Wiseman, Lamelo and Edwards 2a/2b. None of them are perfect fits, but star power matters most. Does Wiseman have faults like all in this draft at the top end? Sure. But 7 foot, 7'6 wingspan, with a nice shooting form, pretty good anticipation at the rim defensively - that has potential to be very special. Noel was nowhere close offensively.

KAT has been very durable throughout his career, but look what we were rolling out as big men when he went down. We have nothing behind him or at PF. Plenty invested at PG/SG already.

I'd go for more of the fit route at the Brooklyn pick, hopefully Saddiq Bey then Aaron Nesmith. I'd use that 2nd round pick to try and move up a few spots to secure one of them.

One thing to factor in with a guy like Wiseman. If a guy like Clint Capela can get played off the floor and off the Rockets all together and he does everything that people hope Wiseman will do, how does Wiseman not just get played off the floor to close games for us? He doesn't stretch the floor at all so KAT is now sitting in a corner with Wiseman setting the screens or else Wiseman is completely worthless on offense. And when KAT posts up he has less space to work with. Wiseman is literally the opposite direction this team and organization is building for the future so I don't see how they take him to stay. Rosas and Ryan refused to play 2 bigs this year so what changes where that's the plan moving forward? People want KAT to get more touches on offense and the only way that happens is if you put guys on the perimeter around him or else he becomes one of those guys on the perimeter not touching the ball or being involved in the action every play. KAT is just gonna have to play defense. There's no way around it. If he doesn't he's not gonna win here nor on his next team. Offense only big men don't win in this league.

khans2k5 wrote:One thing to factor in with a guy like Wiseman. If a guy like Clint Capela can get played off the floor and off the Rockets all together and he does everything that people hope Wiseman will do, how does Wiseman not just get played off the floor to close games for us? He doesn't stretch the floor at all so KAT is now sitting in a corner with Wiseman setting the screens or else Wiseman is completely worthless on offense. And when KAT posts up he has less space to work with. Wiseman is literally the opposite direction this team and organization is building for the future so I don't see how they take him to stay. Rosas and Ryan refused to play 2 bigs this year so what changes where that's the plan moving forward? People want KAT to get more touches on offense and the only way that happens is if you put guys on the perimeter around him or else he becomes one of those guys on the perimeter not touching the ball or being involved in the action every play. KAT is just gonna have to play defense. There's no way around it. If he doesn't he's not gonna win here nor on his next team. Offense only big men don't win in this league.

This has been my take for a long time. Clint Capela and Rudy Gobert have been played off the floor in playoff games against the Rockets and Warriors. If you can't be a threat to shoot I don't know what value you bring as just rim rolling Center. I am not saying those players have no place in the league but I do think there is a cap on how valuable players like them can be and I don't want to use a high pick on a player like that where you can find a player that can do that for a lot cheaper. Also Kat was supposed to be an elite defender out of college, Wiggins was also suppose to be elite. So even though Wiseman has the defensive physical profile it is not guarantee that he can change the game.

Like you said Wolves showed no signs of ever playing 2 bigs together, I don't think that changes now, especially adding a guy who can't shoot. In the end Kahns is right Towns has to learn to play defense or the wolves are never going anywhere. That is on Towns. I hope he can at least be a league average defender because he has shown signs when the wolves are competitive but if he can't we will suck again.

I am also going to say I don't agree with the point of we have used assets into the Guard position (Beasley, Okogie, Culver) we shouldn't draft another Gaurd. None of those guys have proven they can play in big games. Beasley best role is a gunslinger off the bench, Okogie is a defensive specialist right now (Improved as the year went on but he isn't good enough to not be replaced), Culver had a up and down rookie season with some read flags. If the wolves feel like the best player is a Guard you select the guard because our guards can easily be replaced

kekgeek1 wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:One thing to factor in with a guy like Wiseman. If a guy like Clint Capela can get played off the floor and off the Rockets all together and he does everything that people hope Wiseman will do, how does Wiseman not just get played off the floor to close games for us? He doesn't stretch the floor at all so KAT is now sitting in a corner with Wiseman setting the screens or else Wiseman is completely worthless on offense. And when KAT posts up he has less space to work with. Wiseman is literally the opposite direction this team and organization is building for the future so I don't see how they take him to stay. Rosas and Ryan refused to play 2 bigs this year so what changes where that's the plan moving forward? People want KAT to get more touches on offense and the only way that happens is if you put guys on the perimeter around him or else he becomes one of those guys on the perimeter not touching the ball or being involved in the action every play. KAT is just gonna have to play defense. There's no way around it. If he doesn't he's not gonna win here nor on his next team. Offense only big men don't win in this league.

This has been my take for a long time. Clint Capela and Rudy Gobert have been played off the floor in playoff games against the Rockets and Warriors. If you can't be a threat to shoot I don't know what value you bring as just rim rolling Center. I am not saying those players have no place in the league but I do think there is a cap on how valuable players like them can be and I don't want to use a high pick on a player like that where you can find a player that can do that for a lot cheaper. Also Kat was supposed to be an elite defender out of college, Wiggins was also suppose to be elite. So even though Wiseman has the defensive physical profile it is not guarantee that he can change the game.

Like you said Wolves showed no signs of ever playing 2 bigs together, I don't think that changes now, especially adding a guy who can't shoot. In the end Kahns is right Towns has to learn to play defense or the wolves are never going anywhere. That is on Towns. I hope he can at least be a league average defender because he has shown signs when the wolves are competitive but if he can't we will suck again.

I am also going to say I don't agree with the point of we have used assets into the Guard position (Beasley, Okogie, Culver) we shouldn't draft another Gaurd. None of those guys have proven they can play in big games. Beasley best role is a gunslinger off the bench, Okogie is a defensive specialist right now (Improved as the year went on but he isn't good enough to not be replaced), Culver had a up and down rookie season with some read flags. If the wolves feel like the best player is a Guard you select the guard because our guards can easily be replaced

Gobert is a once in a generation type defensive talent that's also better doing the things on offense that Capela does. There is no guarantee Wiseman will be able to be as good as either guy. There is guarantee for any of these prospects though obviously. I'd like to see how Wiseman actually measures out. Lip won't be impressed with a 9'3.5" standing reach (same as Dieng) he supposedly had a few months ago! :) obviously Wiseman could have grown and still be growing since then but...I've started to be skeptical until I see the actual numbers. They Also aren't the end all be all but they do matter.

Back to Capela getting played off the floor in the playoffs the Wolves should have gone at him even more than they did. Unfortunately the Wolves didn't space the floor well enough and didn't screen till they got the best matchup like they should have. I still say with enough space there was no way Capela could have stayed with even Teague and I'm a big fan of Capela.

I watched some highlights from college. I honestly didn't come away that impressed with him. His shot does look Somewhat promising though. It's possible the Wolves think he has a good enough shot they can make him into a modern big because he can shoot. I doubt it but it's not completely ridiculous either. Some of those fade away jumpers looked pretty nice...maybe not what you want to see but they looked nice. Lol

TheFuture wrote:I wouldn't over think this too much. If The NCAA didn't have such bullshit rules and Wiseman played all year he'd be the runaway #1 pick, it wouldn't even be close.

.

Are you sure of that? It's not like there's a lot of tape on a guy like Ball or anything.

I just heard this week Wiseman might drop as low as #7. Some teams simply don't value athletic rolling big men like they once did in this league. Things have changed.

Granted, I think his athletic gifts seem more of a sure thing than most of the crapshoots... but they simply may not be as valuable in the league today, precipitating him dropping some.



[Edit: I see others have chimed in with similar thoughts.]

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

TheFuture wrote:I wouldn't over think this too much. If The NCAA didn't have such bullshit rules and Wiseman played all year he'd be the runaway #1 pick, it wouldn't even be close.

.

Are you sure of that? It's not like there's a lot of tape on a guy like Ball or anything.

I just heard this week Wiseman might drop as low as #7. Some teams simply don't value athletic rolling big men like they once did in this league. Things have changed.

Granted, I think his athletic gifts seem more of a sure thing than most of the crapshoots... but they simply may not be as valuable in the league today, precipitating him dropping some.



[Edit: I see others have chimed in with similar thoughts.]

Let's assume there is no variance in the draft position, and no trades are of value. Wolves draft #3. Edwards and Ball are the consensus #1 and #2. Who do you take at the Wolves pick?

kekgeek1 wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:One thing to factor in with a guy like Wiseman. If a guy like Clint Capela can get played off the floor and off the Rockets all together and he does everything that people hope Wiseman will do, how does Wiseman not just get played off the floor to close games for us? He doesn't stretch the floor at all so KAT is now sitting in a corner with Wiseman setting the screens or else Wiseman is completely worthless on offense. And when KAT posts up he has less space to work with. Wiseman is literally the opposite direction this team and organization is building for the future so I don't see how they take him to stay. Rosas and Ryan refused to play 2 bigs this year so what changes where that's the plan moving forward? People want KAT to get more touches on offense and the only way that happens is if you put guys on the perimeter around him or else he becomes one of those guys on the perimeter not touching the ball or being involved in the action every play. KAT is just gonna have to play defense. There's no way around it. If he doesn't he's not gonna win here nor on his next team. Offense only big men don't win in this league.

This has been my take for a long time. Clint Capela and Rudy Gobert have been played off the floor in playoff games against the Rockets and Warriors. If you can't be a threat to shoot I don't know what value you bring as just rim rolling Center. I am not saying those players have no place in the league but I do think there is a cap on how valuable players like them can be and I don't want to use a high pick on a player like that where you can find a player that can do that for a lot cheaper. Also Kat was supposed to be an elite defender out of college, Wiggins was also suppose to be elite. So even though Wiseman has the defensive physical profile it is not guarantee that he can change the game.

Like you said Wolves showed no signs of ever playing 2 bigs together, I don't think that changes now, especially adding a guy who can't shoot. In the end Kahns is right Towns has to learn to play defense or the wolves are never going anywhere. That is on Towns. I hope he can at least be a league average defender because he has shown signs when the wolves are competitive but if he can't we will suck again.

I am also going to say I don't agree with the point of we have used assets into the Guard position (Beasley, Okogie, Culver) we shouldn't draft another Gaurd. None of those guys have proven they can play in big games. Beasley best role is a gunslinger off the bench, Okogie is a defensive specialist right now (Improved as the year went on but he isn't good enough to not be replaced), Culver had a up and down rookie season with some read flags. If the wolves feel like the best player is a Guard you select the guard because our guards can easily be replaced

First, Rosas and Saunders had no other option but to play one big. They pigeon holed themselves that way.

How did that go?

So does the organization want to add lottery picks and trades into the guard positions only to keep picking the same direction for years til they hit?

What's the issue with adding a super boom or bust big to the team that currently only has one?

He is far more talented than Capela or Gorgui or Whiteside at his age. Gobert is special, but he has zero shooting stroke. Wiseman does.

The wolves have been bottom feeders for so long, go boom or bust on the best talent.

TheFuture wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

TheFuture wrote:I wouldn't over think this too much. If The NCAA didn't have such bullshit rules and Wiseman played all year he'd be the runaway #1 pick, it wouldn't even be close.

.

Are you sure of that? It's not like there's a lot of tape on a guy like Ball or anything.

I just heard this week Wiseman might drop as low as #7. Some teams simply don't value athletic rolling big men like they once did in this league. Things have changed.

Granted, I think his athletic gifts seem more of a sure thing than most of the crapshoots... but they simply may not be as valuable in the league today, precipitating him dropping some.



[Edit: I see others have chimed in with similar thoughts.]

Let's assume there is no variance in the draft position, and no trades are of value. Wolves draft #3. Edwards and Ball are the consensus #1 and #2. Who do you take at the Wolves pick?

I have no idea. None.

I didn't do much research. Projecting draft pick stuff isn't really my bag.

Besides, I want to gloat about my Brandon Clarke scouting report from last year's draft for as long as I can. I rarely champion any draft picks publicly, so it's important to hold on to any possible victory when possible.