Minnesota Sports Forum

I gotta agree with Cam here...let's not include Jeter in the Kobe discussion. It's hard for me to be objective about Jeter because he is one of my favorite athletes of all time, but I don't think he is overrated. Jeter is the perfect example for why stats don't always tell the whole story. Defensive stats say that he didn't have average range at SS, but I remember so many breathtaking stops in big situations (how about in the first inning of this year's all star game?). And even though his offensive stats are impressive, they also don't tell the whole story...he always seemed to come up with the big hit at the most critical time. Many people (including me) admire Kobe as a basketball player, but don't particularly like him. Most baseball fans admire Jeter both as a baseball player and as a man. Baseball will miss him.

Like him or hate him, Kobe Bryant is one of the 5 greatest players of all time. Don't tell me he wasn't a #1.

I wouldn't be surprised if there defense doesn't improve dramatically. KG went to Boston and set a defensive tempo that everyone bought it into and I would have to believe Lebron knowing what it takes to win championships will come in with the same tone.

Will they become better defenders all of sudden, of course not but I bet the effort will be there. Kyrie has the ability to be a plus defender and with the supporting cast he wont have to the excuse of needing the energy for offense. I don't think Love will get away with not getting back and missing back side rotations.

The Wolves last year and Cavs I'm sure too lacked the leadership, accountability for everyone to buy in.

As for the thread topic, I have a hard time believing he'll be the best #2 if you really go back but with Kyrie running the point I think Love's post up situations will be dramatically reduced and will get most his offense generated off of Lebron and Kyrie almost making him more of a #3. He'll probably finish 2nd on the team in scoring but as far getting touches I wouldn't be surprised if its Lebron and Kyrie (by default as a scoring point) ahead of him.

CoolBreeze44 wrote:Like him or hate him, Kobe Bryant is one of the 5 greatest players of all time. Don't tell me he wasn't a #1.

1. Michael Jordan
2. Magic Johnson
3. Larry Bird
4. Tim Duncan
5. Shaquille O'Neal
6. LeBron James
7. Kobe Bryant

So while I don't agree with Kobe Bryant being one of the greatest five players ever, I do think he was a No. 1 guy. I see your point.

1. MJ
2. Magic
3. Kobe
4. Lebron
5. Wilt

CoolBreeze44 wrote:1. MJ
2. Magic
3. Kobe
4. Lebron
5. Wilt

...Might be the first top-five I've ever seen that doesn't have Bird included.

How is Shaq not better than Kobe? I don't want to change the course of the thread, but I do not agree on that one at all. Shaq might be the most dominating force in basketball history; even more-so than Jordan because of physical tools (size, strength and athleticism). Kobe's playoff numbers are great for the most part, but Shaq's are even better. Was the main guy on those Laker teams. Would like to hear a short response to that, if you would.

As for Wilt (and Russell), that gets tricky for me. They were playing against guys significantly shorter than them for the most part. Also, the league didn't have nearly as many teams back then. To me, it sort of lessens their greatness. The truly great players would be great in any era, and personally, I don't think Wilt or Russell (I realize you didn't say him, but he's in the same category) would have been as successful in any other era.

I've heard more arguments by basketball historians about whether Kobe can surpass Jordan, than whether Shaq was better than Kobe. Kobe won multiple titles without Shaq. You might be able to argue that Shaq was better in a short window, but Kobe's consistency and longevity will leave him considered the better player by most.

Bird was great of course, but who do you take out of that top 5 to put him in? Nothing wrong with being a top 10 player all time. This is all subjective of course, and I don't begrudge anyone having a different opinion than my own.

Love is great, but he doesn't deserve to be on the list of top #2 in history.

I fullly consider Kobe the #2 behind Shaq in all of Shaq's years in LA. Shaq was the perfect big man for the triangle offense and while Kobe was great, he wasn't the straw that stirred that drink, it was Shaq because he was unguardable and was a great passer. Regardless of who you think was the #1 or #2 though, both Shaq and Kobe were better than Love.

Wade was also clearly better than Love in LeBron's first couple years with the Heat. Wade was a top 3 superstar.

Pippen was better all-time than Love too, and I'd be pretty shocked if Love ever surpassed him. Pippen even won the All-Star game MVP right after Jordan left (yep, I know it's just an All-Star game, but it does go to show that he wasn't just a secondary type player).

I try not to comment too much on players that were before my time (I'm 35).

mrhockey89 wrote:Love is great, but he doesn't deserve to be on the list of top #2 in history.

I fullly consider Kobe the #2 behind Shaq in all of Shaq's years in LA. Shaq was the perfect big man for the triangle offense and while Kobe was great, he wasn't the straw that stirred that drink, it was Shaq because he was unguardable and was a great passer. Regardless of who you think was the #1 or #2 though, both Shaq and Kobe were better than Love.

Wade was also clearly better than Love in LeBron's first couple years with the Heat. Wade was a top 3 superstar.

Pippen was better all-time than Love too, and I'd be pretty shocked if Love ever surpassed him. Pippen even won the All-Star game MVP right after Jordan left (yep, I know it's just an All-Star game, but it does go to show that he wasn't just a secondary type player).

I try not to comment too much on players that were before my time (I'm 35).

That's funny, you and the Grey are the same age. :)

I didn't read his take (because I've got a fantasy football draft I need to prepare for that I'm hosting tonight), but that makes sense since we're the same person.