Ayo is back!

[BeenLurkin]

Sorry, but this discussion is kind of nonsense when we've only seen the first 2 moves of the Wolves off-season with the draft yet to happen. Why are we judging this stuff in a vacuum that is missing a BIG part of the picture?

Some folks are only happy when the world is screwing them I guess. Or think they deserve to experience victory. Or think that only the trophy can bring true happiness.

The rest of us enjoy the process and the journey. Maybe there should be a naysayers thread so they can leave all the whining out of sight for those of us who are genuinely interested in the yearly cycle of renewed optimism that comes from pro sports.

[TheGrey08]

Some folks are only happy when the world is screwing them I guess. Or think they deserve to experience victory. Or think that only the trophy can bring true happiness.

The rest of us enjoy the process and the journey. Maybe there should be a naysayers thread so they can leave all the whining out of sight for those of us who are genuinely interested in the yearly cycle of renewed optimism that comes from pro sports.

Yeah, I usually just skip over that stuff, but just don't get complaints before we even see moves play out. It's completely fair to be concerned about the initial move, but it's just not worth judging it until we see it all play out in July. By all means if people hate the totality of moves by the, vent/complain about the decision making.

Good thing Ant is reportedly happy about the moves so far.

[Lipoli390]

It's about improving the roster. The roster is getting worse! Just look at the downtrend of it over the last two seasons.

Is any part of you willing to accept that it is possible that Jaden, Naz and Ayo are capable of stepping up and allowing the team to maintain a similar or better level of competitiveness?

It's odd that you're completely dug in on the idea that this isn't possible.

Don't get me wrong, there is still more work to be done, but they literally made the move that gives them space to do that without committing themselves to similarly bad value contracts.

It was untenable here with Randle, that is obvious now. Inconsistent defense and ball stopping offense that I'm sorry, a player of his caliber just doesn't warrant

Whos taking the fall for the blunder then? Finch, TC? Who is getting held accountable for screwing this up!!!

I agree with Lip that maybe we could be the 6th seed, maybe win a playoff round.

Give me the plan to how you are going to beat the Spurs and OKC, even the Knicks? How are you going to play on that level?

Hoping that Jaden becomes Kawhi Leonard in his prime isn't a sound strategy.

Yeah we can be a nice team to watch, but a loser in the end.

I agree with Grey that we can’t judge reliably until we see where we’re at when the season starts after the draft, free agency and possible further trades. I get your angst at the moment. I’m disappointed that we’re in this predicament, which ultimately ties back to what I still consider the highly ill-advised trade for Rudy. But it is what it is. Here are my thoughts right now on the concerns you’ve raised.

First, your question about who takes the fall if things don’t work has an easy, obvious answer — namely Tim Connelly. He’s ultimately responsible for all the moves this team has made since he inherited a team that won 46 games with a core of teenagers - Ant, Jaden and Naz - and KAT, along with role players like Beasley, Vando and Pat Bev. I still think TC can salvage things with our core of Ant, Jaden, Naz and Ayo along with the potential of Beringer, Rocco and TSJ and get this team in the vicinity of OKC and San Antonio, but the window is shrinking and he has to make all the right moves going forward.

Second, I can’t give you a specific plan to contend with the Spurs and Thunder, but that’s TC’s job and as I indicated above, I think he’s capable of doing it but we have to hope he’s already exceeded his share of screw-ups and that the law of averages favors him making a string of really savvy moves. I actually think the Randle deal last night was a somewhat savvy move. I’ll add that I don’t think we’re light years away from competing with those two teams or the Knicks. We were the 6th seed and beat the Nuggets in the first round with our best player either out or hurt that series. Beyond that, TC has quite a bit to work with this summer to improve the team next season and thereafter, including free agency with a full MLE and BAE along with a trade exception, the 33rd pick in this year’s draft and a possible strategic Rudy deal.

Third, no one is counting on Jaden becoming Kawhi Leonard. What some of us are talking about are small improvements from multiple players adding up to significant improvement in the team overall. All of our core players are young enough to exhibit at least small if not moderate improvements in the next couple years. Beringer, Rocco and TSJ could easily improve dramatically. There’s the overall team improvement resulting from the Randle deal’s addition-by-subtraction effect. And of course there are additions through free free agency and trades yet to come this summer.

Finally, I’ll add that we may not be able to catch the Spurs or OKC. If that’s the case, then it’s time for a thorough rebuild. But I don’t believe that time is upon us yet.

[AussieWolf3]

It's about improving the roster. The roster is getting worse! Just look at the downtrend of it over the last two seasons.

Is any part of you willing to accept that it is possible that Jaden, Naz and Ayo are capable of stepping up and allowing the team to maintain a similar or better level of competitiveness?

It's odd that you're completely dug in on the idea that this isn't possible.

Don't get me wrong, there is still more work to be done, but they literally made the move that gives them space to do that without committing themselves to similarly bad value contracts.

It was untenable here with Randle, that is obvious now. Inconsistent defense and ball stopping offense that I'm sorry, a player of his caliber just doesn't warrant

Whos taking the fall for the blunder then? Finch, TC? Who is getting held accountable for screwing this up!!!

I agree with Lip that maybe we could be the 6th seed, maybe win a playoff round.

Give me the plan to how you are going to beat the Spurs and OKC, even the Knicks? How are you going to play on that level?

Hoping that Jaden becomes Kawhi Leonard in his prime isn't a sound strategy.

Yeah we can be a nice team to watch, but a loser in the end.

I sincerely don't know what you're asking. Take the fall? If you're asking if either of these gentleman should be fired, I'd say no but it wouldn't unwarranted if it had happened at the end of the season.

If you think this Randle trade was a "blunder" than I completely disagree. The best possibly scenario was for Brooklyn or Chicago to completely absorb his contract, that just seemed completely unlikely.

I'm not smart enough to pretend that I can "give you the plan" but if we're looking at where they were after game 6, then this was right direction to go and I'll continue to adjust my opinion as the summer moves forward.

Ugh ... I'm not asking for Jaden to do that. You have an opinion of his skill level and I have mine, I respect the differences, but let's be clear I don't think Jaden has to get any better for him to become more impactful. If he maintains the same level of skill that he has now but is given consistent usage and allowed to be a help side defender and not a POA one then I firmly believe he will impact the game at a higher level. I believe that because that is a role better suited to his skill level.

The biggest issue facing the roster as it currently exist is that there is still uncertainty bout where the playmaking is coming from and there aren't enough in, quantity or quality, POA defenders to put Jaden in the role I'm envisioning.

You don't agree with this, that's fine, but it's bizarre to me that there is, seemingly, no chance this is a positive step for the team in your eyes

[BeenLurkin]

Some folks are only happy when the world is screwing them I guess. Or think they deserve to experience victory. Or think that only the trophy can bring true happiness.

The rest of us enjoy the process and the journey. Maybe there should be a naysayers thread so they can leave all the whining out of sight for those of us who are genuinely interested in the yearly cycle of renewed optimism that comes from pro sports.

Yeah, I usually just skip over that stuff, but just don't get complaints before we even see moves play out. It's completely fair to be concerned about the initial move, but it's just not worth judging it until we see it all play out in July. By all means if people hate the totality of moves by the, vent/complain about the decision making.

Good thing Ant is reportedly happy about the moves so far.

As he should. It’s all been for him! Julius was sucking Ant dry like a vampire man. They never meshed. Julius just took. Every move the team has made since drafting Edwards has been to slow play and do this the right way organically and not rushed but making progressions. The only miss step so far has been Julius and there was real reason to think he would be a positive at the beginning. Two years of trial and yeah he was not gonna be part of the thing. The product is soooooo fun to watch when Julius wasn’t a part of it. When Naz is on the floor it’s good basketball. Ant can see this plain as day I am sure. He wants Naz and Jaden and him to be the trio that gets there and any comment about him being unsure of the roster could have been pertaining to why the holy hell is Julius still on it!

[Wolvesfan21]

Is any part of you willing to accept that it is possible that Jaden, Naz and Ayo are capable of stepping up and allowing the team to maintain a similar or better level of competitiveness?

It's odd that you're completely dug in on the idea that this isn't possible.

Don't get me wrong, there is still more work to be done, but they literally made the move that gives them space to do that without committing themselves to similarly bad value contracts.

It was untenable here with Randle, that is obvious now. Inconsistent defense and ball stopping offense that I'm sorry, a player of his caliber just doesn't warrant

Whos taking the fall for the blunder then? Finch, TC? Who is getting held accountable for screwing this up!!!

I agree with Lip that maybe we could be the 6th seed, maybe win a playoff round.

Give me the plan to how you are going to beat the Spurs and OKC, even the Knicks? How are you going to play on that level?

Hoping that Jaden becomes Kawhi Leonard in his prime isn't a sound strategy.

Yeah we can be a nice team to watch, but a loser in the end.

Why does someone need to take the fall for four straight playoff appearances entering your star players prime!?!? You’re delusional man

For not winning a championship is why someone or multiple people need to take the fall. That is what winning fanbases and organizations require.

Our standard here is not championships obviously.

[BeenLurkin]

Whos taking the fall for the blunder then? Finch, TC? Who is getting held accountable for screwing this up!!!

I agree with Lip that maybe we could be the 6th seed, maybe win a playoff round.

Give me the plan to how you are going to beat the Spurs and OKC, even the Knicks? How are you going to play on that level?

Hoping that Jaden becomes Kawhi Leonard in his prime isn't a sound strategy.

Yeah we can be a nice team to watch, but a loser in the end.

Why does someone need to take the fall for four straight playoff appearances entering your star players prime!?!? You’re delusional man

For not winning a championship is why someone or multiple people need to take the fall. That is what winning fanbases and organizations require.

Our standard here is not championships obviously.

….1991…championships haven’t been the standard for 35 years my guy…and looking back past that…87…and then nothing….ever…

Your paradigm is the problem. Maybe you should just buy Knicks merch and pretend you were right all along? If you require a championship you’re already lost.

[Wolvesfan21]

Is any part of you willing to accept that it is possible that Jaden, Naz and Ayo are capable of stepping up and allowing the team to maintain a similar or better level of competitiveness?

It's odd that you're completely dug in on the idea that this isn't possible.

Don't get me wrong, there is still more work to be done, but they literally made the move that gives them space to do that without committing themselves to similarly bad value contracts.

It was untenable here with Randle, that is obvious now. Inconsistent defense and ball stopping offense that I'm sorry, a player of his caliber just doesn't warrant

Whos taking the fall for the blunder then? Finch, TC? Who is getting held accountable for screwing this up!!!

I agree with Lip that maybe we could be the 6th seed, maybe win a playoff round.

Give me the plan to how you are going to beat the Spurs and OKC, even the Knicks? How are you going to play on that level?

Hoping that Jaden becomes Kawhi Leonard in his prime isn't a sound strategy.

Yeah we can be a nice team to watch, but a loser in the end.

I sincerely don't know what you're asking. Take the fall? If you're asking if either of these gentleman should be fired, I'd say no but it wouldn't unwarranted if it had happened at the end of the season.

If you think this Randle trade was a "blunder" than I completely disagree. The best possibly scenario was for Brooklyn or Chicago to completely absorb his contract, that just seemed completely unlikely.

I'm not smart enough to pretend that I can "give you the plan" but if we're looking at where they were after game 6, then this was right direction to go and I'll continue to adjust my opinion as the summer moves forward.

Ugh ... I'm not asking for Jaden to do that. You have an opinion of his skill level and I have mine, I respect the differences, but let's be clear I don't think Jaden has to get any better for him to become more impactful. If he maintains the same level of skill that he has now but is given consistent usage and allowed to be a help side defender and not a POA one then I firmly believe he will impact the game at a higher level. I believe that because that is a role better suited to his skill level.

The biggest issue facing the roster as it currently exist is that there is still uncertainty bout where the playmaking is coming from and there aren't enough in, quantity or quality, POA defenders to put Jaden in the role I'm envisioning.

You don't agree with this, that's fine, but it's bizarre to me that there is, seemingly, no chance this is a positive step for the team in your eyes

The blunder was the KAT trade by not incorporating Julius somehow to make the trade work out positively (OR the trade was a failure and thats on TC). It's one or the other.

Why couldn't our coaches and players all get on the same page? You just gave him up for basically nothing. So in the end, it was a failure and no one is held accountable.

So who is at fault here? TC, Finch or the players?

[Wolvesfan21]

Why does someone need to take the fall for four straight playoff appearances entering your star players prime!?!? You’re delusional man

For not winning a championship is why someone or multiple people need to take the fall. That is what winning fanbases and organizations require.

Our standard here is not championships obviously.

….1991…championships haven’t been the standard for 35 years my guy…and looking back past that…87…and then nothing….ever…

Your paradigm is the problem. Maybe you should just buy Knicks merch and pretend you were right all along? If you require a championship you’re already lost.

Why is that? The fanbase doesn't require it. If we stopped buying tickets, quit watching the games, booed at piss poor play, things would need to change. The standard is created by the fans. I blame the MN softass fanbase.

[Wolvesfan21]

Is any part of you willing to accept that it is possible that Jaden, Naz and Ayo are capable of stepping up and allowing the team to maintain a similar or better level of competitiveness?

It's odd that you're completely dug in on the idea that this isn't possible.

Don't get me wrong, there is still more work to be done, but they literally made the move that gives them space to do that without committing themselves to similarly bad value contracts.

It was untenable here with Randle, that is obvious now. Inconsistent defense and ball stopping offense that I'm sorry, a player of his caliber just doesn't warrant

Whos taking the fall for the blunder then? Finch, TC? Who is getting held accountable for screwing this up!!!

I agree with Lip that maybe we could be the 6th seed, maybe win a playoff round.

Give me the plan to how you are going to beat the Spurs and OKC, even the Knicks? How are you going to play on that level?

Hoping that Jaden becomes Kawhi Leonard in his prime isn't a sound strategy.

Yeah we can be a nice team to watch, but a loser in the end.

I agree with Grey that we can’t judge reliably until we see where we’re at when the season starts after the draft, free agency and possible further trades. I get your angst at the moment. I’m disappointed that we’re in this predicament, which ultimately ties back to what I still consider the highly ill-advised trade for Rudy. But it is what it is. Here are my thoughts right now on the concerns you’ve raised.

First, your question about who takes the fall if things don’t work has an easy, obvious answer — namely Tim Connelly. He’s ultimately responsible for all the moves this team has made since he inherited a team that won 46 games with a core of teenagers - Ant, Jaden and Naz - and KAT, along with role players like Beasley, Vando and Pat Bev. I still think TC can salvage things with our core of Ant, Jaden, Naz and Ayo along with the potential of Beringer, Rocco and TSJ and get this team in the vicinity of OKC and San Antonio, but the window is shrinking and he has to make all the right moves going forward.

Second, I can’t give you a specific plan to contend with the Spurs and Thunder, but that’s TC’s job and as I indicated above, I think he’s capable of doing it but we have to hope he’s already exceeded his share of screw-ups and that the law of averages favors him making a string of really savvy moves. I actually think the Randle deal last night was a somewhat savvy move. I’ll add that I don’t think we’re light years away from competing with those two teams or the Knicks. We were the 6th seed and beat the Nuggets in the first round with our best player either out or hurt that series. Beyond that, TC has quite a bit to work with this summer to improve the team next season and thereafter, including free agency with a full MLE and BAE along with a trade exception, the 33rd pick in this year’s draft and a possible strategic Rudy deal.

Third, no one is counting on Jaden becoming Kawhi Leonard. What some of us are talking about are small improvements from multiple players adding up to significant improvement in the team overall. All of our core players are young enough to exhibit at least small if not moderate improvements in the next couple years. Beringer, Rocco and TSJ could easily improve dramatically. There’s the overall team improvement resulting from the Randle deal’s addition-by-subtraction effect. And of course there are additions through free free agency and trades yet to come this summer.

Finally, I’ll add that we may not be able to catch the Spurs or OKC. If that’s the case, then it’s time for a thorough rebuild. But I don’t believe that time is upon us yet.

Your stance is reasonable. I'm still angry that we are not making significant moves needed to potentially put us over the top. Maybe more so that no moves exist. Because your potential growth from Jaden and Naz won't compare to the major leaps coming from the Spurs players who were already in the Finals and age 22 or younger.