Minnesota Sports Forum

TheFuture wrote:

Camden0916 wrote:

TheFuture wrote:

Camden0916 wrote:Timberwolves: Ben Simmons

Sixers: Bradley Beal, No. 17

Wizards: Jarrett Culver, James Johnson (player option), Josh Okogie, Jarred Vanderbilt, No. 1, Minnesota's 2023 first-round pick (unprotected, conditional upon 2021 obligation to Golden State)

- Bleacher Report suggested this trade in a recent article. This is a very good example of what I had alluded to not too long ago on here. That would be tremendous.

Edit: It certainly is a lot to give up on Minnesota's end, but you're receiving a lot in Ben Simmons as well. He's also a great fit with Karl-Anthony Towns and D'Angelo Russell, and with what the front office appears to want to do. You gut the roster a bit, but you'd still be able to re-sign Malik Beasley and Jordan McLaughlin. Jake Layman when healthy is a serviceable rotation player. I'd imagine Juan Hernangomez would also be re-signed in this case. Naz Reid should be playable if not legitimately solid. And then you use the MLE on a defensive-minded wing to replace what you lost with Josh Okogie and Jarrett Culver.

To be honest, I wouldn't do it. Simmons is a fine player, but he requires a team fitted to him. I like the flexibility we currently have with KAT and DLO as our best players. Trading for Simmons means placing both of their skillsets on the backburner.

Your assessment is correct that Ben Simmons requires a team fitted to him, but Karl-Anthony Towns and D'Angelo Russell are arguably the exact pieces -- or molds of players -- you'd want to surround him with. Another primary ball-handler that can also play off the ball and make threes. A stretch-five -- the best shooting big of all-time for my money -- that can shoulder the offensive load and clean the glass. We'd still need that versatile defensive wing, but man, I think those three's strengths and weaknesses balance each other really well.

I dont disagree wholeheartedly. I just see much more tweaking capabilities surrounding KAT and DLO.

What does the defense do when we need a bucket and KAT should be down low to go get it? They'll double him off of Simmons.

Simmons would make our defense better, but not enough to offset the offensive gain. My opinion.

When we need a bucket in the 4th we're gonna be running Russell/KAT PnR's with Simmons in a corner ready to crash the boards when his guy cheats off him to play help defense. You don't have to be held hostage by Simmons. Philly just has never had any other ball handlers to go with him that they can go to for stretches of the game. We have Russell which solves that issue when games come down to the wire. Also Simmons is a very smart basketball player. He's not gonna just stand around like Wiggins off the ball. If there's a lane for him to cut he's gonna take it and finish at the rim when Russell gets him the ball.

TheFuture wrote:

Camden0916 wrote:

TheFuture wrote:

Camden0916 wrote:Timberwolves: Ben Simmons

Sixers: Bradley Beal, No. 17

Wizards: Jarrett Culver, James Johnson (player option), Josh Okogie, Jarred Vanderbilt, No. 1, Minnesota's 2023 first-round pick (unprotected, conditional upon 2021 obligation to Golden State)

- Bleacher Report suggested this trade in a recent article. This is a very good example of what I had alluded to not too long ago on here. That would be tremendous.

Edit: It certainly is a lot to give up on Minnesota's end, but you're receiving a lot in Ben Simmons as well. He's also a great fit with Karl-Anthony Towns and D'Angelo Russell, and with what the front office appears to want to do. You gut the roster a bit, but you'd still be able to re-sign Malik Beasley and Jordan McLaughlin. Jake Layman when healthy is a serviceable rotation player. I'd imagine Juan Hernangomez would also be re-signed in this case. Naz Reid should be playable if not legitimately solid. And then you use the MLE on a defensive-minded wing to replace what you lost with Josh Okogie and Jarrett Culver.

To be honest, I wouldn't do it. Simmons is a fine player, but he requires a team fitted to him. I like the flexibility we currently have with KAT and DLO as our best players. Trading for Simmons means placing both of their skillsets on the backburner.

Your assessment is correct that Ben Simmons requires a team fitted to him, but Karl-Anthony Towns and D'Angelo Russell are arguably the exact pieces -- or molds of players -- you'd want to surround him with. Another primary ball-handler that can also play off the ball and make threes. A stretch-five -- the best shooting big of all-time for my money -- that can shoulder the offensive load and clean the glass. We'd still need that versatile defensive wing, but man, I think those three's strengths and weaknesses balance each other really well.

I dont disagree wholeheartedly. I just see much more tweaking capabilities surrounding KAT and DLO.

What does the defense do when we need a bucket and KAT should be down low to go get it? They'll double him off of Simmons.

Simmons would make our defense better, but not enough to offset the offensive gain. My opinion.

The Wolves haven't had much trouble scoring since Karl-Anthony Towns has been here. I would imagine that they could get really creative with different sets and lineups to attack the defense in multiple ways. D-Lo running P&R with Simmons setting screens and Towns spotted up. Simmons running P&R with Towns and D-Lo spotted up. D-Lo running HORNS with both Towns and Simmons directly involved. There's also Beasley spotted up somewhere in every one of those situations. I just don't see how a defense could double Towns without giving up an open look to three other efficient scorers.

https://www.canishoopus.com/2020/10/29/21536895/2020-nba-draft-latest-news-rumors-and-buzz-offseason-rumors

Nothing particularly new here. It talks about the reports that Charlotte is zeroing in on Wiseman and might be a candidate for swapping picks with the Wolves. It mentions the deal I suggested in an earlier post where the Wolves would get the 3rd pick and Miles Bridges in exchange for our pick and the rights to Wiseman.

lipoli390 wrote:https://www.canishoopus.com/2020/10/29/21536895/2020-nba-draft-latest-news-rumors-and-buzz-offseason-rumors

Nothing particularly new here. It talks about the reports that Charlotte is zeroing in on Wiseman and might be a candidate for swapping picks with the Wolves. It mentions the deal I suggested in an earlier post where the Wolves would get the 3rd pick and Miles Bridges in exchange for our pick and the rights to Wiseman.

Lip would you do that deal? I feel like I'd want more.

monsterpile wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:https://www.canishoopus.com/2020/10/29/21536895/2020-nba-draft-latest-news-rumors-and-buzz-offseason-rumors

Nothing particularly new here. It talks about the reports that Charlotte is zeroing in on Wiseman and might be a candidate for swapping picks with the Wolves. It mentions the deal I suggested in an earlier post where the Wolves would get the 3rd pick and Miles Bridges in exchange for our pick and the rights to Wiseman.

Lip would you do that deal? I feel like I'd want more.

Good question, Monster. I just posted in another thread that I'm not terribly excited about Miles, so I'm not sure I'd do the deal. How about you?

Here are some comments on Wiseman by former NBA player, Larry Hughes:

"I've seen him since he was in 8th or 9th grade," said Hughes referring to James Wiseman. "He's one of those hybrid guys whose always been kind of a thin guy but was the guy who was on the block because he was really tall and really skilled. Now I see that he's putting on some weight and really growing into his body."

Hughes believes that we weren't able to see all that Wiseman has to offer during his limited time at Memphis. On the youth circuit he was able to fully demonstrate the unique skills he offers for someone his size.

"You expect him to step out on the floor and pull a bigger guy out on the floor and go around the bigger guy or be able to make a play," said Hughes. "And then if you get that 1-4 switch of a point guard or a two-guard on him, you would expect him to be able to go to the block or the mid-post to make a play. He's as skilled as any big kid that I've seen and he's only getting better."

"He's very intelligent, very well-spoken," said Hughes. "And I think that helps these young kids as they get into the NBA because they can quickly understand terminology. A lot of the game is played between the ears and I think that's a quality guy. His name has been mentioned for a lot of years in terms of being one of those top draft picks."

Hughes was talking about Wiseman in the context the Wizards possibly trading up to get him. Do the Wizards have anything or anyone other than Beal who would be worth trading down for from #1 to #9?

These comments from Hughes are yet another example of the building momentum for Wiseman as the top pick. I know longer look at the draft as having a top three tier.

I now see Wiseman having the top tier all to himself.

My second tier includes Edwards, Ball, Okongwu, Toppin and Deni. Of these five, Ball has the biggest bust potential with Edwards coming in second in that dubious department - although I have far more confidence in Edwards than I do in Ball. I think Edwards and Ball are tied for the highest upside in this group. Okongwu and Toppin have the highest floors and seem the most bust-proof. I also see them having very high upsides, which is why I have them in my second tier. Okongwu's weakness is offense while Toppin's weakness is defense. I think both can improve their weaknesses, although I have more confidence in Okongwu developing offensively than I do in Toppin improving defensively. Deni is interesting. His playmaking skills and basketball IQ at his size, combined with his competitive edge, give him a very high upside in my view. But his questionable shooting percentage from the free-throw line give me pause.

My third tier consists of Halliburton, Vassell, Okoro, Patrick Williams and Killian Hayes. Halliburton and Vassell are two guys you can count on to be good two-way NBA players. The only reason they're not in my tier 2 is because I don't see them having huge all-star caliber upsides. I think Williams has the biggest upside in this group and he almost made my tier 2 on that basis. But he's just too raw right now for me to place him in that category. Okoro is intriguing. By all accounts, he's an excellent defender. I like his ability to get to the rim and score as evidenced by his 50% FG shooting. But his perimeter shooting is highly questionable based on his sub-par 3-point and free-throw shooting. I'm also underwhelmed by his rebounding and steal stats in college. Nevertheless, he seems like a guy who can be counted on as a high-caliber NBA defender.

Speaking of Okoro, here's some analysis of him:

"At various points during this process, sources have compared Okoro to Jaylen Brown and Andre Iguodala.

In his lone season at Cal, Brown shot 43.1% from the field, 29.4% on 3s and 65.4% from the foul line. Those numbers look similar, don't they? Brown has progressed nicely in the NBA. After a few years of development, he's one of the best young two-way players in the Eastern Conference.

Okoro is a winner with a terrific work ethic and relentless competitive drive. He's worth betting on."

lipoli390 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:https://www.canishoopus.com/2020/10/29/21536895/2020-nba-draft-latest-news-rumors-and-buzz-offseason-rumors

Nothing particularly new here. It talks about the reports that Charlotte is zeroing in on Wiseman and might be a candidate for swapping picks with the Wolves. It mentions the deal I suggested in an earlier post where the Wolves would get the 3rd pick and Miles Bridges in exchange for our pick and the rights to Wiseman.

Lip would you do that deal? I feel like I'd want more.

Good question, Monster. I just posted in another thread that I'm not terribly excited about Miles, so I'm not sure I'd do the deal. How about you?

Let's talk about that draft here and let's do it in terms of minimum we would take to drop those 2 slots. So let's say they are willing to give up Bridges and he has some positive value which makes sense as he is young has decent but not great stats and is under team control at reasonable salary for 2 more years. Like you mentioned in the other thread he isn't particularly long but he is built very strong which has some merit especially since he Wolves have a lot of skinny guys on the wing. As I said in the other thread could the Wolves deal Bridges for value at some point? Could he net a future first round pick? I think we can agree he is a positive asset worth acquiring.

Adding Bridges means we would be sending out salary. I'd assume that means sending them Evans and Spellman. Evans is worth nothing so we would get to dump his small salary. Everything I have heard is Spellman will not be with the Wolves and IMO he has some value. So you save some money and a roster spot by dumping Evans but give up a small cheap positive asset in Spellman.

So it seems now what else could the Hornets do to reasonably sweeten the deal? I suggested the Cavs #32 pick which in this draft could bring a pretty solid player but we already have #33. Could you trade up with one or both of those picks? If this was literally the best offer available and I was ok dropping down I might accept it if for no other reason it gives the Wolves 2 additional assets instead of just picking Wiseman. I also think dropping down to 3 might open up an opportunity to trade down first her maybe even with the Knicks...but I know you have the concern too that #8 might be too far down. Here are 8 guys that I think I'd be happy waking away with at 8 though if we got a future 1st round pick to make it worth our time.

Wiseman
Edwards
Ball
Okongwu
Toppin
Haliburton
Deni
Vassell

It's possible in this draft someone else or maybe even a couple guys (Hayes Okoro and Patrick Williams) jump above these guys and so there would be options. Some of those guys I may even be interested at #8 for the Wolves but I'd have to look into it more. I'll say here there are a lot of PG options in this draft.

Obviously if Charlotte was willing to part with a protected 1st that was reasonably likely to convey as even a lottery pick to move down I would like that. Still like ai said Bridges could be an asset to get a future pick at some point or he is still young he could be a guy for the Wolves moving forward as he likely still has some upside. Ultimately it may come down to how someone feels about Wiseman and the guys after him. I'd certainly feel better about selecting someone other than Wiseman at 3 while getting an asset than picking someone else at that spot. Toppin and Okongwu at 3 would be plenty intriguing for a move down or Deni. There are a lot of options and it's easy to start writing a lot. Lol

Monster - I like the way you've broken it down. As you said, we would likely include Evans and Spellman and that would free up roster space. I agree that Bridges should be viewed as an asset who could be traded and not solely as a player on the Wolves roster. And he still has some upside in my view. I'm intrigued by Cam's idea or trading down again from #3, but I wouldn't do it unless I knew I'd end up with Okongwu or Toppin. I better stop here or I'll end up writing more than you. :)

lipoli390 wrote:Monster - I like the way you've broken it down. As you said, we would likely include Evans and Spellman and that would free up roster space. I agree that Bridges should be viewed as an asset who could be traded and not solely as a player on the Wolves roster. And he still has some upside in my view. I'm intrigued by Cam's idea or trading down again from #3, but I wouldn't do it unless I knew I'd end up with Okongwu or Toppin. I better stop here or I'll end up writing more than you. :)

Lol if there are any trade downs it just opens up such a big rabbit hole. The next question would be what make it worth it to trade down the next time...whatever that would be. I've basically outlined I might be willing to trade down to #8 but I'll say this as someone who often loves to trade down...it would take some real balls from an NBA front office to trade down from #1 All the way to #8 unless you got some serious assets back and it still would be risky in a lot of ways even if to some extent you have some higher chances because you would likely get multiple bites at the Apple. Still the reason why many teams make deals they do is get a top pick...so...obviously even in this draft it's valuable and chances of getting a better player are...better.

What if, by some chance, the Wolves have Obi Toppin as their top talent? You wouldn't expect them to simply take them at number one. And you certainly could trade down to three with Charlotte, but you wouldn't expect them to take Toppin at three either. So, trade down again to get your guy plus more. I'm using Toppin as an example here, but you get the point. If you can get the guy you want several picks later and accumulate more on the way down via trade, then you could also turn out to be smarter than the rest and your reputation would account for that.

I'm not saying Gersson Rosas should trade out of the top spot, but if he does it once I think he should double down on his front office's assessment. Is Anthony Edwards or LaMelo Ball really a better haul than Devin Vassell and maybe a future protected first-round pick?