Minnesota Sports Forum

Camden wrote:What if, by some chance, the Wolves have Obi Toppin as their top talent? You wouldn't expect them to simply take them at number one. And you certainly could trade down to three with Charlotte, but you wouldn't expect them to take Toppin at three either. So, trade down again to get your guy plus more. I'm using Toppin as an example here, but you get the point. If you can get the guy you want several picks later and accumulate more on the way down via trade, then you could also turn out to be smarter than the rest and your reputation would account for that.

I'm not saying Gersson Rosas should trade out of the top spot, but if he does it once I think he should double down on his front office's assessment. Is Anthony Edwards or LaMelo Ball really a better haul than Devin Vassell and maybe a future protected first-round pick?

I agree, Cam. If the Wolves trade down to #3, it could make sense to trade down again for more assets. Of course, whether it makes sense to trade down a second time depends on who the Wolves are targeting in the draft as well as the value of the additional assets they'd get in the second deal. If it were me, my target would be Okongwu, so I would only trade down a second time if I was certain he'd be available. I suspect the Wolves are targeting Toppin, so your hypothetical seems pretty real to me and I don't see the Wolves trading down a second time unless they're sure he'd be available.

I think Okongwu and Toppin will both be available at #3, although there's a chance the Warriors might take him at #2. But mock drafts have these two guys all over the map in the top 9. I think they'll both be taken in the top 6.

lipoli390 wrote:

Camden wrote:What if, by some chance, the Wolves have Obi Toppin as their top talent? You wouldn't expect them to simply take them at number one. And you certainly could trade down to three with Charlotte, but you wouldn't expect them to take Toppin at three either. So, trade down again to get your guy plus more. I'm using Toppin as an example here, but you get the point. If you can get the guy you want several picks later and accumulate more on the way down via trade, then you could also turn out to be smarter than the rest and your reputation would account for that.

I'm not saying Gersson Rosas should trade out of the top spot, but if he does it once I think he should double down on his front office's assessment. Is Anthony Edwards or LaMelo Ball really a better haul than Devin Vassell and maybe a future protected first-round pick?

I agree, Cam. If the Wolves trade down to #3, it could make sense to trade down again for more assets. Of course, whether it makes sense to trade down a second time depends on who the Wolves are targeting in the draft as well as the value of the additional assets they'd get in the second deal. If it were me, my target would be Okongwu, so I would only trade down a second time if I was certain he'd be available. I suspect the Wolves are targeting Toppin, so your hypothetical seems pretty real to me and I don't see the Wolves trading down a second time unless they're sure he'd be available.

I think Okongwu and Toppin will both be available at #3, although there's a chance the Warriors might take him at #2. But mock drafts have these two guys all over the map in the top 9. I think they'll both be taken in the top 6.

Good thoughts, Lip. As for the bolded, let's look at the draft order.

1. Minnesota Timberwolves - Needs a 4/5
2. Golden State Warriors - Needs a 4/5
3. Charlotte Hornets - Needs a 4/5
4. Chicago Bulls - Doesn't need a 4/5
5. Cleveland Cavaliers - Doesn't need a 4/5
6. Atlanta Hawks - Doesn't need a 4/5

It's certainly possible that one of Okongwu and Toppin goes in the top three -- along with Wiseman -- though that would be a surprise to most of us. After the top three, I just don't see those teams taking a big when they have more glaring needs elsewhere. That also makes a potential trade down into those slots a bigger possibility since they all could have a great deal of interest in Edwards or Ball.

Camden wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

Camden wrote:What if, by some chance, the Wolves have Obi Toppin as their top talent? You wouldn't expect them to simply take them at number one. And you certainly could trade down to three with Charlotte, but you wouldn't expect them to take Toppin at three either. So, trade down again to get your guy plus more. I'm using Toppin as an example here, but you get the point. If you can get the guy you want several picks later and accumulate more on the way down via trade, then you could also turn out to be smarter than the rest and your reputation would account for that.

I'm not saying Gersson Rosas should trade out of the top spot, but if he does it once I think he should double down on his front office's assessment. Is Anthony Edwards or LaMelo Ball really a better haul than Devin Vassell and maybe a future protected first-round pick?

I agree, Cam. If the Wolves trade down to #3, it could make sense to trade down again for more assets. Of course, whether it makes sense to trade down a second time depends on who the Wolves are targeting in the draft as well as the value of the additional assets they'd get in the second deal. If it were me, my target would be Okongwu, so I would only trade down a second time if I was certain he'd be available. I suspect the Wolves are targeting Toppin, so your hypothetical seems pretty real to me and I don't see the Wolves trading down a second time unless they're sure he'd be available.

I think Okongwu and Toppin will both be available at #3, although there's a chance the Warriors might take him at #2. But mock drafts have these two guys all over the map in the top 9. I think they'll both be taken in the top 6.

Good thoughts, Lip. As for the bolded, let's look at the draft order.

1. Minnesota Timberwolves - Needs a 4/5
2. Golden State Warriors - Needs a 4/5
3. Charlotte Hornets - Needs a 4/5
4. Chicago Bulls - Doesn't need a 4/5
5. Cleveland Cavaliers - Doesn't need a 4/5
6. Atlanta Hawks - Doesn't need a 4/5

It's certainly possible that one of Okongwu and Toppin goes in the top three -- along with Wiseman -- though that would be a surprise to most of us. After the top three, I just don't see those teams taking a big when they have more glaring needs elsewhere. That also makes a potential trade down into those slots a bigger possibility since they all could have a great deal of interest in Edwards or Ball.

I agree your assessment of team needs. However, any of the three teams in the 4-6 range might stick to the best player available principle, in which case Toppin and Okongwu would both be viable candidates in that range. If those three teams don't have a clear BPA in mind, then it's likely that Okongwu, Toppin or both could be available at 7 or 8. If Charlotte were to trade up with us for Wiseman, it's possible that the Warriors would select Okongwu or Toppin and either keep or trade him, which would in turn impact whether the Wolves execute a second deal.

In a trade down scenario with the hornets. I would want a #1, #17 evans and spellman for #3 and Pj Washington and 2021 protected first from the hornets. Il do the deal if Edwards is availble at 3. Edwards is my clear cut number 2 guy in the draft so if we could get him and washington and a future draft asset then Im doing the deal.

Bridges is a neutral asset for me and im not high on him. Washington would fit nicely on the team. We may be asking for too much but this is the deal I would consider. Otherwise, just draft and keep wiseman@1.

If I were to rank Charlotte's tradable assets from most valuable to least valuable, this is what I would come up with.

1. No. 3 overall pick
2. P.J. Washington
3. 2021 first-round pick
4. 2022 first-round pick
5. Miles Bridges

Obviously, you'd ask for more than you thought you could get and work from there, but the absolute least that I would take in a trade down is No. 3 overall and Miles Bridges in the event that James Wiseman is a no-go.

I think the strongest-yet-realistic deal in value for Minnesota would be No. 1, Omari Spellman, and Jacob Evans III -- clearing roster spots and guaranteed money -- for No. 3 and Washington. Washington would instantly be the best forward on this team and another very good three-point shooter on the roster. He'd also make Juan Hernangomez even more expendable than he already is, or at the least it gives the Wolves some real leverage in contract negotiations.

There's also the chance that the Hornets counter with a proposal that swaps out Washington with a protected 2021 first-round pick, and assuming the protection is reasonable like top-five or top-seven, then I'd also like that deal for the Wolves.

Camden wrote:If I were to rank Charlotte's tradable assets from most valuable to least valuable, this is what I would come up with.

1. No. 3 overall pick
2. P.J. Washington
3. 2021 first-round pick
4. 2022 first-round pick
5. Miles Bridges

Obviously, you'd ask for more than you thought you could get and work from there, but the absolute least that I would take in a trade down is No. 3 overall and Miles Bridges in the event that James Wiseman is a no-go.

I think the strongest-yet-realistic deal in value for Minnesota would be No. 1, Omari Spellman, and Jacob Evans III -- clearing roster spots and guaranteed money -- for No. 3 and Washington. Washington would instantly be the best forward on this team and another very good three-point shooter on the roster. He'd also make Juan Hernangomez even more expendable than he already is, or at the least it gives the Wolves some real leverage in contract negotiations.

There's also the chance that the Hornets counter with a proposal that swaps out Washington with a protected 2021 first-round pick, and assuming the protection is reasonable like top-five or top-seven, then I'd also like that deal for the Wolves.

Yes, #1, Spellman and Evans for #3 and PJ Washington would be a good deal for the Wolves and I think it's realistic. I'd still do the deal even if it were a mildly protected first in 2021 or 2022 instead of PJ. I'd insist on no more than top 5 protection, eventually becoming unprotected. I wouldn't include #17 or 33 to get PJ as part of the deal. If that's what it would take, then I'd just pick and keep Wiseman. The Wolves can't approach this draft as if they have to do a deal. I've had doubts about Wiseman and still do. But I see him having a pretty high floor simply because of his combination of length and athleticism. And I also see a lot of upside somewhere in the vicinity of Chris Bosh and Joel Embiid. Sam Mitchell a college basketball analyst on NBA radio described Wiseman's upside as a more athletic David Robinson. Of course, I still see Okgongwu with a good chance of being another Bam Adebayo and that's why I'm interested in swapping picks with Charlotte.

lipoli390 wrote:

Camden wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

Camden wrote:What if, by some chance, the Wolves have Obi Toppin as their top talent? You wouldn't expect them to simply take them at number one. And you certainly could trade down to three with Charlotte, but you wouldn't expect them to take Toppin at three either. So, trade down again to get your guy plus more. I'm using Toppin as an example here, but you get the point. If you can get the guy you want several picks later and accumulate more on the way down via trade, then you could also turn out to be smarter than the rest and your reputation would account for that.

I'm not saying Gersson Rosas should trade out of the top spot, but if he does it once I think he should double down on his front office's assessment. Is Anthony Edwards or LaMelo Ball really a better haul than Devin Vassell and maybe a future protected first-round pick?

I agree, Cam. If the Wolves trade down to #3, it could make sense to trade down again for more assets. Of course, whether it makes sense to trade down a second time depends on who the Wolves are targeting in the draft as well as the value of the additional assets they'd get in the second deal. If it were me, my target would be Okongwu, so I would only trade down a second time if I was certain he'd be available. I suspect the Wolves are targeting Toppin, so your hypothetical seems pretty real to me and I don't see the Wolves trading down a second time unless they're sure he'd be available.

I think Okongwu and Toppin will both be available at #3, although there's a chance the Warriors might take him at #2. But mock drafts have these two guys all over the map in the top 9. I think they'll both be taken in the top 6.

Good thoughts, Lip. As for the bolded, let's look at the draft order.

1. Minnesota Timberwolves - Needs a 4/5
2. Golden State Warriors - Needs a 4/5
3. Charlotte Hornets - Needs a 4/5
4. Chicago Bulls - Doesn't need a 4/5
5. Cleveland Cavaliers - Doesn't need a 4/5
6. Atlanta Hawks - Doesn't need a 4/5

It's certainly possible that one of Okongwu and Toppin goes in the top three -- along with Wiseman -- though that would be a surprise to most of us. After the top three, I just don't see those teams taking a big when they have more glaring needs elsewhere. That also makes a potential trade down into those slots a bigger possibility since they all could have a great deal of interest in Edwards or Ball.

I agree your assessment of team needs. However, any of the three teams in the 4-6 range might stick to the best player available principle, in which case Toppin and Okongwu would both be viable candidates in that range. If those three teams don't have a clear BPA in mind, then it's likely that Okongwu, Toppin or both could be available at 7 or 8. If Charlotte were to trade up with us for Wiseman, it's possible that the Warriors would select Okongwu or Toppin and either keep or trade him, which would in turn impact whether the Wolves execute a second deal.

Personally I don't see the cavs current front court group being why I don't take a top pick that's a big. Kevin Love isn't gonna be around forever and Drummond is signed for just a year. Nance is 27. Obviously the cavs could use a SF but really what they need is a star player regardless of position.

I've seen some amazingly bad trade ideas on the Dunking With Wolves site. The latest is Dylan Jackson's suggested deal with the Knicks in which the Wolves swap #1 and Culver for #8 and RJ Barrett.

If I were the Wolves owner and Rosas came to me for permission to do that deal, my first response would be NO, followed immediately by "YOU'RE FIRED."

Trading down 7 spots from the top pick in this draft AND exchanging last year's #6 pick for last year's #3 makes no sense. I might understand it if Barrett had an impressive rookie season, but he didn't. In fact, Barrett and Culver had eerily similar stats, including poor shooting stats.

Reading ideas like this one on the Wolves blog site enhance my high regard for this message board and the high quality basketball minds of those who post here.

lipoli390 wrote:I've seen some amazingly bad trade ideas on the Dunking With Wolves site. The latest is Dylan Jackson's suggested deal with the Knicks in which the Wolves swap #1 and Culver for #8 and RJ Barrett.

If I were the Wolves owner and Rosas came to me for permission to do that deal, my first response would be NO, followed immediately by "YOU'RE FIRED."

Trading down 7 spots from the top pick in this draft AND exchanging last year's #6 pick for last year's #3 makes no sense. I might understand it if Barrett had an impressive rookie season, but he didn't. In fact, Barrett and Culver had eerily similar stats, including poor shooting stats.

Reading ideas like this one on the Wolves blog site enhance my high regard for this message board and the high quality basketball minds of those who post here.

I used to enjoy that site from time to time as it had some solid content but I think it was there I read an equally or maybe more ridiculous post about the Wolves last week. I haven't seen Barrett play but yeah his offense which was why he was drafted wasn't good and my guess is Culver was better on defense. Ok yeah that Trade idea might be a fireable offense. lol

RJ Barrett was supposed to be a bit of a jack-of-all trades type player coming out of Duke. He seems to have a similar profile to Justise Winslow, whereby he does everything average to good except shooting.

Unless he is elite defensively, I don't see the value there....

That Duke team was one of the most heralded recruiting classes of all time. But they couldn't shoot!