Minnesota Sports Forum

Good questions posed here Kek.

One thing I always think about is the journey Milwaukee went on. If you look at the time they begun their ascent from a basement dwelling team to the time they won a title, there were only two players there the whole time: Giannis and Middleton. After their first year together where they won only 15 games (Giannis was a rookie and Middleton was in his second year), they spent the next 4 seasons together winning 41, 33, 42, and 44 games before they took another leap. And then it took another three seasons before they won the title. That was a long, hard slog compared to Phoenix!

Throughout their journey, the front office kept churning the players around them. And churning. And churning. They kept doing this even after going from 44 wins in '17-18 to 60 in '18-19. Only Giannis, Middleton, Pat Connaughton and Brook Lopez were on both the '18-19 60-win team AND the title team last season. Every other roster spot changed.

You've cited the win-loss record when both DLO and KAT play going back to last year. That win % basically gets us into the playoffs every year. The Net Rating of the DLO-KAT-Edwards trio when on the floor together (regardless of who the other two players are) is +13.6 this season.

Bottom-line....as long as we don't go off the rails the rest of this season, I think the front office has to stick with what's working and work like hell to shore up the complimentary pieces, which might mean churning a big chunk of the roster this offseason.

Q-was-here wrote:Good questions posed here Kek.

One thing I always think about is the journey Milwaukee went on. If you look at the time they begun their ascent from a basement dwelling team to the time they won a title, there were only two players there the whole time: Giannis and Middleton. After their first year together where they won only 15 games (Giannis was a rookie and Middleton was in his second year), they spent the next 4 seasons together winning 41, 33, 42, and 44 games before they took another leap. And then it took another three seasons before they won the title. That was a long, hard slog compared to Phoenix!

Throughout their journey, the front office kept churning the players around them. And churning. And churning. They kept doing this even after going from 44 wins in '17-18 to 60 in '18-19. Only Giannis, Middleton, Pat Connaughton and Brook Lopez were on both the '18-19 60-win team AND the title team last season. Every other roster spot changed.

You've cited the win-loss record when both DLO and KAT play going back to last year. That win % basically gets us into the playoffs every year. The Net Rating of the DLO-KAT-Edwards trio when on the floor together (regardless of who the other two players are) is +13.6 this season.

Bottom-line....as long as we don't go off the rails the rest of this season, I think the front office has to stick with what's working and work like hell to shore up the complimentary pieces, which might mean churning a big chunk of the roster this offseason.

I agree completely, Q. This team needs some continuity and so far this season the core of this team looks like they're worth continuing to build around. DLO and KAT have had a hard time staying healthy before this season and I'll add that Anthony Edwards is just scratching the surface of his abilities as a 20-year old 2nd year player. So we haven't really seen the best of what our core three players can do. DLO will be the most interesting wild card for all the reasons Kek gave. I'm still intrigued by the thought of swapping DLO for Simmons, but I really like what we've seen from DLO this season in spite of his odd shooting woes. I don't think there's a team in the League that would balk at giving KAT a super-max contract. He remains the single most important player on this team until Ant proves otherwise, in which case KAT would become an incredible second-best player. I want to see this team go forward with KAT, Ant, DLO, Beverley and Vanderbilt. Those are the five key guys in my view. I also like Nowell and McDaniels. And I continue to value Bealey's three-point shooting prowess in spite of his struggles so far this season.

Per Brian Whindhorst the Wolves have offered every trade package possible to acquire Simmons outside of including Towns and Ant

kekgeek1 wrote:Per Brian Whindhorst the Wolves have offered every trade package possible to acquire Simmons outside of including Towns and Ant

I think almost all of us have given up on this dream, but there is still a trade out there that would move both teams up in the standings: DLo and Beasley for Simmons and filler. KAT/Vando/Simmons/Ant/PatBev would rank among the best defensive starting fives and ensure a playoff appearance for the Wolves...and not just a play-in. And even though Maxey is playing quite well in Philly, DLo clearly improves their starting five and Maxey/Beasley greatly improves their bench. Makes sense for both teams.

We all know it's not going to happen though. While most of us appreciate DLo's value this year, he still isn't appreciated around the league. A recent Philly fan article ranked Maxey as the 22nd best PG in the league and DLo 24th! And Beasley's summer behind bars and poor shooting this season have diminished his value in the eyes of suitors.

I'm happy that Gupta is still trying, but I still don't see how it happens.

kekgeek1 wrote:Per Brian Whindhorst the Wolves have offered every trade package possible to acquire Simmons outside of including Towns and Ant

Wow, I'm surprised by that. And no Philly, we don't want Tobias Harris!

FNG wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:Per Brian Whindhorst the Wolves have offered every trade package possible to acquire Simmons outside of including Towns and Ant

I think almost all of us have given up on this dream, but there is still a trade out there that would move both teams up in the standings: DLo and Beasley for Simmons and filler. KAT/Vando/Simmons/Ant/PatBevKAT/Vando/Simmons/Ant/PatBev would rank among the best defensive starting fives and ensure a playoff appearance for the Wolves...and not just a play-in. And even though Maxey is playing quite well in Philly, DLo clearly improves their starting five and Maxey/Beasley greatly improves their bench. Makes sense for both teams.

We all know it's not going to happen though. While most of us appreciate DLo's value this year, he still isn't appreciated around the league. A recent Philly fan article ranked Maxey as the 22nd best PG in the league and DLo 24th! And Beasley's summer behind bars and poor shooting this season have diminished his value in the eyes of suitors.

I'm happy that Gupta is still trying, but I still don't see how it happens.

Terrible spacing with that lineup though.

I'm ready to move on from Ben Simmons. We've offered everything, they've declined, move on.

I'm no longer interested in this team trading for Ben Simmons. Things have changed. Players have evolved. I don't think the Wolves need to be blinded in their pursuit of him any longer.

Camden wrote:I'm no longer interested in this team trading for Ben Simmons. Things have changed. Players have evolved. I don't think the Wolves need to be blinded in their pursuit of him any longer.

Cam, question for you. Would you trade DLO for Simmons? Straight swap, maybe a 2nd rounder going their way or heavily protected 1st.

KiwiMatt wrote:

Camden wrote:I'm no longer interested in this team trading for Ben Simmons. Things have changed. Players have evolved. I don't think the Wolves need to be blinded in their pursuit of him any longer.

Cam, question for you. Would you trade DLO for Simmons? Straight swap, maybe a 2nd rounder going their way or heavily protected 1st.

Good question, Kiwi. I've maintained from the start that I wouldn't break up the Karl-Anthony Towns, D'Angelo Russell, and Anthony Edwards trio to bring Ben Simmons to the team. I only had interest in adding him to create a big-four, so to speak.

It's been a couple months now, and I haven't changed my stance on that. If anything, I've dug myself in even deeper. Simply, I wouldn't trade D-Lo for Simmons right now. I also wouldn't continue to pursue Simmons. Much of what I wanted from Simmons as Minnesota's four is being contributed by Jarred Vanderbilt for just over four-million a year. Adding Simmons at this point lessens Vanderbilt's role/production without providing much else besides the obvious increase in ball-handling. And that's without factoring in the cost to acquire him.

The juice just isn't worth the squeeze to me anymore. This team is legitimately good as constructed. I would focus on tinkering with the supporting pieces before altering the core of the team. Let's see how this team operates with another quality wing, for instance.

Camden wrote:

KiwiMatt wrote:

Camden wrote:I'm no longer interested in this team trading for Ben Simmons. Things have changed. Players have evolved. I don't think the Wolves need to be blinded in their pursuit of him any longer.

Cam, question for you. Would you trade DLO for Simmons? Straight swap, maybe a 2nd rounder going their way or heavily protected 1st.

Good question, Kiwi. I've maintained from the start that I wouldn't break up the Karl-Anthony Towns, D'Angelo Russell, and Anthony Edwards trio to bring Ben Simmons to the team. I only had interest in adding him to create a big-four, so to speak.

It's been a couple months now, and I haven't changed my stance on that. If anything, I've dug myself in even deeper. Simply, I wouldn't trade D-Lo for Simmons right now. I also wouldn't continue to pursue Simmons. Much of what I wanted from Simmons as Minnesota's four is being contributed by Jarred Vanderbilt for just over four-million a year. Adding Simmons at this point lessens Vanderbilt's role/production without providing much else besides the obvious increase in ball-handling. And that's without factoring in the cost to acquire him.

The juice just isn't worth the squeeze to me anymore. This team is legitimately good as constructed. I would focus on tinkering with the supporting pieces before altering the core of the team. Let's see how this team operates with another quality wing, for instance.

Cam - You have been consistent from the start on your view of Simmons, how he'd fit here and what you'd be willing to give up to get him. I've had a different view and would have loved to deal DLO and a future 2nd round pick for Simmons. But I'm not sure I'd do that deal now. I honestly don't think we need to change up our core. If we can't make the playoffs this season and become a contender in a year or two with KAT, Ant and DLO, then I don't see us as a contender with KAT, Ant and Simmons. Based on what we've seen this season, I think it's clear that this team's problem is its bench. Our top three bench players --Beasley, McDaniels and Naz Reid -- aren't getting it done. I wouldn't make a panic deal this season. But if we can strengthen the bench significantly by dealing Naz Reid and Prince I'd do it. Naz Reid has value around the League as a player while Prince should have value as an expiring contract. I'd also dangle Beasley who has value as a player.