Minnesota Sports Forum

mrhockey89 wrote:

I'm going to say this, after watching part of the officer body cam video and reading the full script of what was said by all parties involved, I believe it's unlikely that officer Chauvin will be convicted on the Murder 2 charge that Ellison is charging him with. I think they'll get him on a lesser charge but the 1st autopsy combined with the series of events (he was on drugs, in shock, complaining he couldn't breathe several times before he went to the ground, requested several times by the police to get in the police car and they would open the windows and turn on the a/c. He got out and requested to be on the ground instead. He was talking to his mom (who is dead), and clearly out of it. Completely inappropriate to put the knee on the neck which is why I think they'll get him on something, but the autopsy did not show affixation and you don't convict someone on behalf of a mob, but rather "beyond a reasonable doubt". I think there's reasonable doubt that the knee is not what caused him to die. I think it will no doubt lead to more riots and people suggesting this is proof of systemic racism. I hope I'm wrong simply because I think it will continue a dangerous narrative in this country and the officer wasn't in the right, but if I'm putting my money on one vs the other, I'm saying they don't get him convicted on murder 2, and even though the media and BLM will paint it as proof or racism, it will actually just be the way criminal law has to be proven in this country, and quite frankly, rightly so (that you need beyond reasonable doubt to convict that is).

Q12543 wrote:

mrhockey89 wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:Few things scare me as much as the media does today. The agendas and lack of objectivity tear apart the fiber of what this nation once was. Remember the old Soviet news agency TASS? Never thought that could happen here? Take a closer look.

The media has bias. The media has problems. The media are run by rich, powerful men. But the media are not quite the boogeymen that we're led to believe by a unrepentant, perpetual liar... to where we should be throwing out legitimate news stories because of a few questionable narratives.

The media is a problem. But it's not THE problem that we're being led to believe it is by a man who has marketed the media as such for his own self-serving ways. It's been a brilliant strategy by an absolutely genius-level branding wizard.

I used to disagree about the ultra-bias/fake news narrative until I started paying attention. When Trump originally brought it up I thought it wasn't nearly as bad as he suggested. I'm not sure if the media has gotten this much worse, or if I'm just really paying attention more now, but the media is arguably the biggest problem in America right now. If you read about the people quitting these companies, they're doing so because of the narrative that's being driven that don't allow for objective journalism. I vote about 50/50 on each side of the isle and it's really become embarrassing how CNN has been over these past few years since Trump has become President. Trump says a lot of stupid things, but what is the media's excuse? They intentionally report on the fringes because it drives ratings, but it doesn't give an accurate view of events. In fact, the very stories they choose to report on, the details that are left out, the twitter reaction culture, etc. It's not just scary, it's actually proven dangerous.

I'm going to say this, after watching part of the officer body cam video and reading the full script of what was said by all parties involved, I believe it's unlikely that officer Chauvin will be convicted on the Murder 2 charge that Ellison is charging him with. I think they'll get him on a lesser charge but the 1st autopsy combined with the series of events (he was on drugs, in shock, complaining he couldn't breathe several times before he went to the ground, requested several times by the police to get in the police car and they would open the windows and turn on the a/c. He got out and requested to be on the ground instead. He was talking to his mom (who is dead), and clearly out of it. Completely inappropriate to put the knee on the neck which is why I think they'll get him on something, but the autopsy did not show affixation and you don't convict someone on behalf of a mob, but rather "beyond a reasonable doubt". I think there's reasonable doubt that the knee is not what caused him to die. I think it will no doubt lead to more riots and people suggesting this is proof of systemic racism. I hope I'm wrong simply because I think it will continue a dangerous narrative in this country and the officer wasn't in the right, but if I'm putting my money on one vs the other, I'm saying they don't get him convicted on murder 2, and even though the media and BLM will paint it as proof or racism, it will actually just be the way criminal law has to be proven in this country, and quite frankly, rightly so (that you need beyond reasonable doubt to convict that is).

I work in health insurance and I had my reservations on the Affordable Care Act (Obamacare) but was willing to hold reservation until we had data. Now that we have data I think it doesn't work well, but I think some good ideas stemmed from it (ACOs and no pre-existing conditions, for instance). With that said, my biggest disappointment with the Obama presidency is that he didn't stick up for the men in blue when he could have. I think it was the birth of what we're seeing right now. He had background, the voice, and the power to make a real difference on this conversation. Trump doesn't have that because he is much more polarizing. His fault? Mostly, but even when he does the right thing the media won't give him credit (and I can come up with example after example if asked).

***Edit, for clarification I consider intentionally misleading stories to be fake news, even if some of the content is accurate within it.***

Good stuff Hockey....

I had read somewhere that a few years ago MSNBC was thinking about doing straight up news in the evening time slots, but quickly realized that ratings would tank. Since then, they have become the #1 anti-Trump/Pro-Dem cheerleader (with CNN right behind them), and have jumped up to #2 in terms of evening cable ratings (after Fox), so part of this is a reflection of what people want. People want to get confirmation and reinforcement of their own worldview and become outraged by crazy things the "other side" is doing.

apollotsg wrote:While I think Wolvesfan21 is either trolling us or a 20 year old kid reading from a conspiracy website, but I wanted to comment on some of the board interactions.

apollotsg wrote:While I think Wolvesfan21 is either trolling us or a 20 year old kid reading from a conspiracy website, but I wanted to comment on some of the board interactions.

BizarroJerry wrote:Never thought I would hear "Trump" and "Brilliant" in the same sentence. You guys have heard him speak, right?

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

mrhockey89 wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:Few things scare me as much as the media does today. The agendas and lack of objectivity tear apart the fiber of what this nation once was. Remember the old Soviet news agency TASS? Never thought that could happen here? Take a closer look.

The media has bias. The media has problems. The media are run by rich, powerful men. But the media are not quite the boogeymen that we're led to believe by a unrepentant, perpetual liar... to where we should be throwing out legitimate news stories because of a few questionable narratives.

The media is a problem. But it's not THE problem that we're being led to believe it is by a man who has marketed the media as such for his own self-serving ways. It's been a brilliant strategy by an absolutely genius-level branding wizard.

I used to disagree about the ultra-bias/fake news narrative until I started paying attention. When Trump originally brought it up I thought it wasn't nearly as bad as he suggested. I'm not sure if the media has gotten this much worse, or if I'm just really paying attention more now, but the media is arguably the biggest problem in America right now. If you read about the people quitting these companies, they're doing so because of the narrative that's being driven that don't allow for objective journalism. I vote about 50/50 on each side of the isle and it's really become embarrassing how CNN has been over these past few years since Trump has become President. Trump says a lot of stupid things, but what is the media's excuse? They intentionally report on the fringes because it drives ratings, but it doesn't give an accurate view of events. In fact, the very stories they choose to report on, the details that are left out, the twitter reaction culture, etc. It's not just scary, it's actually proven dangerous.

I'm going to say this, after watching part of the officer body cam video and reading the full script of what was said by all parties involved, I believe it's unlikely that officer Chauvin will be convicted on the Murder 2 charge that Ellison is charging him with. I think they'll get him on a lesser charge but the 1st autopsy combined with the series of events (he was on drugs, in shock, complaining he couldn't breathe several times before he went to the ground, requested several times by the police to get in the police car and they would open the windows and turn on the a/c. He got out and requested to be on the ground instead. He was talking to his mom (who is dead), and clearly out of it. Completely inappropriate to put the knee on the neck which is why I think they'll get him on something, but the autopsy did not show affixation and you don't convict someone on behalf of a mob, but rather "beyond a reasonable doubt". I think there's reasonable doubt that the knee is not what caused him to die. I think it will no doubt lead to more riots and people suggesting this is proof of systemic racism. I hope I'm wrong simply because I think it will continue a dangerous narrative in this country and the officer wasn't in the right, but if I'm putting my money on one vs the other, I'm saying they don't get him convicted on murder 2, and even though the media and BLM will paint it as proof or racism, it will actually just be the way criminal law has to be proven in this country, and quite frankly, rightly so (that you need beyond reasonable doubt to convict that is).

I work in health insurance and I had my reservations on the Affordable Care Act (Obamacare) but was willing to hold reservation until we had data. Now that we have data I think it doesn't work well, but I think some good ideas stemmed from it (ACOs and no pre-existing conditions, for instance). With that said, my biggest disappointment with the Obama presidency is that he didn't stick up for the men in blue when he could have. I think it was the birth of what we're seeing right now. He had background, the voice, and the power to make a real difference on this conversation. Trump doesn't have that because he is much more polarizing. His fault? Mostly, but even when he does the right thing the media won't give him credit (and I can come up with example after example if asked).

***Edit, for clarification I consider intentionally misleading stories to be fake news, even if some of the content is accurate within it.***

Good stuff Hockey....

I had read somewhere that a few years ago MSNBC was thinking about doing straight up news in the evening time slots, but quickly realized that ratings would tank. Since then, they have become the #1 anti-Trump/Pro-Dem cheerleader (with CNN right behind them), and have jumped up to #2 in terms of evening cable ratings (after Fox), so part of this is a reflection of what people want. People want to get confirmation and reinforcement of their own worldview and become outraged by crazy things the "other side" is doing.

All that's fine. We know that the Maddows and Hannitys and their ilk are in it for the ratings... and their own pocketbooks. We all agree on this. They are NOT journalists. Personally, I don't watch tv news, and I'd never go to those sources for actual news.

But we've been instructed to group all news in with the entertainers and agenda op-ed folk. Specifically, even legitimately sourced and reported news. Why?

Because the champion behind that sentiment is in it for his own self-serving ways as well. Sow confusion... create more dissension... dismiss anything negative. True. False. Doesn't matter. As long as we can point at the "bad guys" when something goes wrong. It's working brilliantly. And I don't mean that dismissively. Trump has proven to be a brilliant strategist -- because he has picked up on the pulse of the American public in 2016 - ... and we're an angry lot. Anger and resentment are much greater motivators than anything else.

We all have varying opinions of him as president or even as a person... but there's no denying his brilliance.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

BizarroJerry wrote:Never thought I would hear "Trump" and "Brilliant" in the same sentence. You guys have heard him speak, right?

It's true. The man has preyed on the public while marketing himself over the past 40 years.

Look where he is based on how he can promote the Trump brand. A millionaire many times over. The POTUS. And a notable figure in the annals of history for centuries.

Is he a terrible speaker? A terrible person? Sure.

But he's "brilliant" at marketing himself and figuring out the pulse of tens of millions of Americans. That's undeniable.

Q12543 wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

mrhockey89 wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:Few things scare me as much as the media does today. The agendas and lack of objectivity tear apart the fiber of what this nation once was. Remember the old Soviet news agency TASS? Never thought that could happen here? Take a closer look.

The media has bias. The media has problems. The media are run by rich, powerful men. But the media are not quite the boogeymen that we're led to believe by a unrepentant, perpetual liar... to where we should be throwing out legitimate news stories because of a few questionable narratives.

The media is a problem. But it's not THE problem that we're being led to believe it is by a man who has marketed the media as such for his own self-serving ways. It's been a brilliant strategy by an absolutely genius-level branding wizard.

I used to disagree about the ultra-bias/fake news narrative until I started paying attention. When Trump originally brought it up I thought it wasn't nearly as bad as he suggested. I'm not sure if the media has gotten this much worse, or if I'm just really paying attention more now, but the media is arguably the biggest problem in America right now. If you read about the people quitting these companies, they're doing so because of the narrative that's being driven that don't allow for objective journalism. I vote about 50/50 on each side of the isle and it's really become embarrassing how CNN has been over these past few years since Trump has become President. Trump says a lot of stupid things, but what is the media's excuse? They intentionally report on the fringes because it drives ratings, but it doesn't give an accurate view of events. In fact, the very stories they choose to report on, the details that are left out, the twitter reaction culture, etc. It's not just scary, it's actually proven dangerous.

I'm going to say this, after watching part of the officer body cam video and reading the full script of what was said by all parties involved, I believe it's unlikely that officer Chauvin will be convicted on the Murder 2 charge that Ellison is charging him with. I think they'll get him on a lesser charge but the 1st autopsy combined with the series of events (he was on drugs, in shock, complaining he couldn't breathe several times before he went to the ground, requested several times by the police to get in the police car and they would open the windows and turn on the a/c. He got out and requested to be on the ground instead. He was talking to his mom (who is dead), and clearly out of it. Completely inappropriate to put the knee on the neck which is why I think they'll get him on something, but the autopsy did not show affixation and you don't convict someone on behalf of a mob, but rather "beyond a reasonable doubt". I think there's reasonable doubt that the knee is not what caused him to die. I think it will no doubt lead to more riots and people suggesting this is proof of systemic racism. I hope I'm wrong simply because I think it will continue a dangerous narrative in this country and the officer wasn't in the right, but if I'm putting my money on one vs the other, I'm saying they don't get him convicted on murder 2, and even though the media and BLM will paint it as proof or racism, it will actually just be the way criminal law has to be proven in this country, and quite frankly, rightly so (that you need beyond reasonable doubt to convict that is).

I work in health insurance and I had my reservations on the Affordable Care Act (Obamacare) but was willing to hold reservation until we had data. Now that we have data I think it doesn't work well, but I think some good ideas stemmed from it (ACOs and no pre-existing conditions, for instance). With that said, my biggest disappointment with the Obama presidency is that he didn't stick up for the men in blue when he could have. I think it was the birth of what we're seeing right now. He had background, the voice, and the power to make a real difference on this conversation. Trump doesn't have that because he is much more polarizing. His fault? Mostly, but even when he does the right thing the media won't give him credit (and I can come up with example after example if asked).

***Edit, for clarification I consider intentionally misleading stories to be fake news, even if some of the content is accurate within it.***

Good stuff Hockey....

I had read somewhere that a few years ago MSNBC was thinking about doing straight up news in the evening time slots, but quickly realized that ratings would tank. Since then, they have become the #1 anti-Trump/Pro-Dem cheerleader (with CNN right behind them), and have jumped up to #2 in terms of evening cable ratings (after Fox), so part of this is a reflection of what people want. People want to get confirmation and reinforcement of their own worldview and become outraged by crazy things the "other side" is doing.

All that's fine. We know that the Maddows and Hannitys and their ilk are in it for the ratings... and their own pocketbooks. We all agree on this. They are NOT journalists. Personally, I don't watch tv news, and I'd never go to those sources for actual news.

But we've been instructed to group all news in with the entertainers and agenda op-ed folk. Specifically, even legitimately sourced and reported news. Why?

Because the champion behind that sentiment is in it for his own self-serving ways as well. Sow confusion... create more dissension... dismiss anything negative. True. False. Doesn't matter. As long as we can point at the "bad guys" when something goes wrong. It's working brilliantly. And I don't mean that dismissively. Trump has proven to be a brilliant strategist -- because he has picked up on the pulse of the American public in 2016 - ... and we're an angry lot. Anger and resentment are much greater motivators than anything else.

We all have varying opinions of him as president or even as a person... but there's no denying his brilliance.

I think I addressed my view of this earlier in the thread. The issue on the hard news side of these cable channels or written publications is what is chosen to be covered and investigated and what is not or how prominently to feature it. That's just as much of an issue as shoddy and lazy reporting.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

BizarroJerry wrote:Never thought I would hear "Trump" and "Brilliant" in the same sentence. You guys have heard him speak, right?

It's true. The man has preyed on the public while marketing himself over the past 40 years.

Look where he is based on how he can promote the Trump brand. A millionaire many times over. The POTUS. And a notable figure in the annals of history for centuries.

Is he a terrible speaker? A terrible person? Sure.

But he's "brilliant" at marketing himself and figuring out the pulse of tens of millions of Americans. That's undeniable.