Minnesota Sports Forum

thedoper wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

thedoper wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

thedoper wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

thedoper wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

thedoper wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

thedoper wrote:

mrhockey89 wrote:Cool, you're in Portland? Sorry to hear given the climate there.

doper, like the others said, it's about consistency. Like Q said, if you replace the word "white" with "black" and reverse who is saying it, I think we all know it would have been front page news in the NBA for a while, and would have been called out as super racist, not even using the slang term that you were originally suggesting.

I don't think any of us care too much about the term white boy, but we also agree that the intent is to be condescending, and it's a race-based condescending term. If we've learned anything in 2020, it doesn't have to be the majority that are offended by something, it can be the minority. As others mentioned, the Adams comment was years ago when we were in a different world as it pertains to political correctness on words.

On China the NBA definitely shows themselves to be total hypocrites. From the Hong Kong incident to the NBA China training academies where abuse of young children was taking place, the NBA not only didn't take a firm stance condemning it, but also tried to quiet the reporters reporting about it. They don't want bad press. It's all about the money, as always. It's also much of the reason I haven't watched a minute of playoff basketball this season.

I guess overall my expectation is that the NBA should be either taking a proactive stance as they pretend they are, and make sure they're applying their stance equally across all creeds or take a passive stance and avoid the topic altogether and let the players talk their trash and not dramamaticize every moment.

I get it. Its outrage about hypothetical consistency.
I'm thankful that most white players in the nba understand that language has context and typically dont make racial slurs. Like I already said, Im not going to get angry about a scenario that could potentially happen to a white player. I think that is a silly, make believe, straw man position. There is no politically correct boogeyman coming to strip white males of their rights.

With the violent intimidation tactics being used by some BLM activists I wouldn't be so sure. Familiarize yourself with 1930's Berlin and learn how the brownshirts were a precursor to the Nazi's rise to power. Some of the stuff I'm seeing today looks awfully familiar to what happened back then. The Germans never thought it could happen in their country either.

Wow cool. Please don't equate BLM with Nazi's at least to me. I am very familiar with 1930s Berlin. I lost much of my family in the Holocaust and definitely believe it cheapens any real debate about what is going on in the US right now to make any parallel to either side of US politics and one of the great evils of history. BLM definitely has challenging elements, but I think you are showing a tact and any real knowledge of history by trying to equate the real struggle of blacks as a minority at present to the white majority in Berlin blaming Jews for their economic hardship.

I'm not equating the real struggle of African Americans to anything. It's real and change is needed. I fully support the concept of BLM. What I have a problem with is certain parts of the movement. When i see innocent people being intimidated, threatened, and in many cases harmed, that's what i have a problem with. Some of these tactics are nearly exactly what the stormtroopers used when they were running around Germany strong arming people. And I'm not saying they are Nazi-like, I specifically said the brownshirts who were a precursor to the Nazi regime.

Please don't double down on your mistake. With the brownshirts it wasn't "certain parts of the movement" the whole movement was dedicated to terror, racism, and evil. The bad apples of BLM don't represent the movement as a whole and therefore any comparison to them and the Brownshirts is as stupid as comparing police in the USA to Brownshirts because of bad cops.

Doper, you're one of my favorite posters on this site. But you're crossing the line a bit there. Disagreeing with you doesn't mean I'm stupid or have made a mistake. I specifically told you what i had a problem with. I didn't generalize it into the whole movement. I said certain factions were using tactics that are very similar to what happened in Berlin. You're demonstrating some of the ignorance you're accusing me of.

No you did make a mistake. See my added edit to my previous post. Brownshirts were Nazis. They were created by the Nazi party. I don't think you're stupid. I think that drawing a line from Nazis to BLM is a stupid thing to do. We all have made mistakes like you are now. Feel free to correct yourself if you want. But calling me ignorant because of your pride isn't going to change anything.

Oh my goodness. No matter what I say, the fact you're convinced I'm equating BLM to Nazi Germany is going to get us no where. I'm not going to try and explain myself again, but to be clear, that is not what I was doing.

Here is what I do believe. An ignorant population is the DNC's greatest asset.

Cool you started this saying I should study history of the 1930s where you said Brownshirts were a precursor to Nazis. This is an incorrect telling of history and the premise for your position is based on false information. Brownshirts were Nazi's party members, formed by the official Nazi party in 1922. So whether you knowingly did it or not or intended to do it, you made a comparison to the behavior of people in BLM to Nazis. I told you that doing that is not cool, then you tried to double down and reiterated the false fact that Brownshirts were precursors to Nazis. You were the one insinuating that I should study history from the beginning. Again, bringing up Nazis in a discussion about BLM in any sort of comparative fashion is not cool in my opinion. You can bring up the challenges of BLM without talking about Nazis, especially if the historical information you are using to make your point is inaccurate.

I'm glad you weren't trying to equate BLM to Nazi's, but perhaps your language and historical research could have been a bit better presented so that you weren't so easy to misinterpret?

I'm clearly not as well versed on the subject as you are. Would it have made more sense if I had used the term SA instead of Brownshirts? But my intent wasn't to debate you and have us decide on a winner at the end of it. You're a smart guy and i fully believe you understand the basis to what i was trying to say. But you're trying so hard to get over on me I think we lost the spirited intent of having a back and forth discussion with proper comprehension on each side. You seemed to "add to" what i was actually saying and in some cases it changed the overall context. At the end of the day this is a basketball forum and we should probably take something like this to the General Discussion Forum.

Hey Cool. All I am asking is simple.

1. Lets try as hard as possible to resist the impulse to compare elements of current American politics to Nazis

2. If we feel that we absolutely have to make that comparison, lets be accurate


Im sorry if I made this out into something more than it was. I am sensitive to these comparisons and feel its been thrown around way too loosely by the left and right at present. My personal connection to the issue makes it a personal point of sensitivity. I respect your opinion and intelligence and am more than happy to put this all way behind us. Go Wolves.

This is basically it. We all know by now any comparisons to nazis with current American politics is a strawman or dog whistle tactic online.

It's just a public service announcement to stay clear of it or look like a fool online.

Now. We're all good. Cool can go back to browbeating posters in angry tones about hoops again.

BizarroJerry wrote:

TheSP wrote:

BizarroJerry wrote:Absolutely agree Doper. False equivalency by a long shot. Let's also not forget the US soldiers that fought in WWII were anti-fascists, antifa, as they're so affectionately called by conservatives.

So Antifa calling themselves anti-fascists while using fascist tactics doesn't make them fascists? Pretending Antifa are a well intentioned group of people because they call themselves anti-fascists is like saying it wasn't rape because the rapist said he was making love to his victim.

I cannot get over how many people are willing to stick their heads in the sand and accept that this group of anarchists are working for good even though their actions are violent, but hey, they call themselves anti-fascists so we'll look the other way.

What exactly is a fascist tactic? Trump labels them a terrorist organization and continues to support white supremacist groups. And way to work in a rape comparison. Classy.

Fascists were known for using intimidation and violence to silence those who opposed them in the same way so many of these "mostly peaceful" BLM and Antifa activists do and spreads cancel culture where anyone not willing to bend the knee gets harassed and has their lives destroyed.

As for rape, it was a simple analogy, if that offends you I'm not sure what to say. When did it become another word we're not allowed to speak?

TheSP wrote:

BizarroJerry wrote:

TheSP wrote:

BizarroJerry wrote:Absolutely agree Doper. False equivalency by a long shot. Let's also not forget the US soldiers that fought in WWII were anti-fascists, antifa, as they're so affectionately called by conservatives.

So Antifa calling themselves anti-fascists while using fascist tactics doesn't make them fascists? Pretending Antifa are a well intentioned group of people because they call themselves anti-fascists is like saying it wasn't rape because the rapist said he was making love to his victim.

I cannot get over how many people are willing to stick their heads in the sand and accept that this group of anarchists are working for good even though their actions are violent, but hey, they call themselves anti-fascists so we'll look the other way.

What exactly is a fascist tactic? Trump labels them a terrorist organization and continues to support white supremacist groups. And way to work in a rape comparison. Classy.

Fascists were known for using intimidation and violence to silence those who opposed them in the same way so many of these "mostly peaceful" BLM and Antifa activists do and spreads cancel culture where anyone not willing to bend the knee gets harassed and has their lives destroyed.

As for rape, it was a simple analogy, if that offends you I'm not sure what to say. When did it become another word we're not allowed to speak?

So mostly BLM activists are peaceful and that's just good enough. Well Police are mostly doing their jobs right as well, and often times when they fail it's in split second decisions. Activists fail only when they choose to do so.

Pretty fiery stuff going on here! One thing I do like about this board is that even though some of us disagree vehemently on certain hot-button issues, we can cool it down and will go back to talking hoops as normal on the very next thread while respecting each other.

I think it's safe to say everyone on this board would agree with a general statement that black lives matter. I also think most people in America would actually agree with that statement (probably even half the internet trolls). I don't really like that we have to make a statement like this before talking about the actual BLM group itself. I said months ago that BLM is Black Lives Matter in name only. They disappear when a black life is taken within the community, they have donations of hundreds of millions to billions of dollars, yet I've yet to hear about an actual life they've saved, or community they've helped build. Everything is about tearing things down, get rid of the police (even though that would make it more dangerous for those they pretend to be fighting for).

I think it's also safe to say that BLM's overarching message is to promote socialism. Equality in results, not equality in opportunity, is what they want. In their own mission statement that Abe so kindly posted, they reference the Ferguson, MO as being one of their foundational justice marches. Justice in the case meant putting the officer who killed Michael Brown in prison forever, and that the facts of the case don't actually matter. The Obama appointed DOJ was able to come to the conclusion that the evidence pointed to the cops version of events, and that many "eyewitness" accounts suggesting Brown was giving himself up, which weren't supported by the facts, were due to being afraid of repercussion for outing someone in their own community for a cop. Even Brown's best friend reversed his statement and admitted he was lying early on. BLM combines with other anti-government fringe groups to incite terror in many of the cities, knock down statues, burn buildings, etc, all in the name of equality and tearing down the systematic problems of our country's history. They're being emboldened by weak local leaders that are afraid to speak against it, and supported by the embarrassingly racist/progressive DA's. I drive through Uptown, Minneapolis at least once a week and see the ACAB signs, amongst others, basically a promotion to disrespect police. In any other society in the world, not only would it be taken down immediately, but in most, they would be jailed and perhaps killed.

Whether you choose to celebrate our history or be ashamed of it, this is the history of man, not just America. Whites were not the only slave owners, nor are they the only slave owners in this country's history. In fact, as many as 35% of African Americans have a Caucasian in their family tree (some of which were slave owners). We can disagree about the past as well as how the system is set up currently, while still making positive changes to our systems. They have to come from a place of building up rather than a place of tearing down. Those, such as LeBron, who suggest this country hasn't improved at all since slavery ended, likely embarrass their own ancestors that had to endure segregation on busses, water fountains, schools, restaurants, as well as voting rights. It's a slap in the face to his own ancestors to be honest.

BizzaroJerry, I realize you appear to be fairly progressive in your views, but repeating that Trump supports the KKK doesn't make it true. I think you should fact-check yourself on that statement. If you do more research on the full context of that suggestion then you'll find it to be false.

Back to the original point I was making with thedoper. My entire point is that if the goal is equality, then you can't intentionally create a double-standard and label it equality. As they say...I was born on a Sunday, but I wasn't born last Sunday.