Ben Simmons Talk Revived

[Lipoli390]

Simmons has reportedly demanded a trade from the Sixers and it could simply be a matter of time before he gets traded to another team unless Philadelphia general manager Daryl Morey doesn't think any team can give him what he wants for Simmons. According to BetMGM, the Warriors are +300 to be Simmons' next team. "Ben Simmons has confirmed he wants to leave Philadelphia and many teams are in the mix to acquire the All-Star. Simmons has stated he would like to go to California, and with some trade assets available, the Warriors look to be in the driver's seat," BetMGM's Darren Darby said. - via Nick Bromberg @ Yahoo! Sports

Looks like the Warriors are emerging as a front-runner for Simmons. Apparently, Simmons want to play for a CA team. Between Golden State and Sacramento, I think he'll get his wish.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

Simmons has reportedly demanded a trade from the Sixers and it could simply be a matter of time before he gets traded to another team unless Philadelphia general manager Daryl Morey doesn't think any team can give him what he wants for Simmons. According to BetMGM, the Warriors are +300 to be Simmons' next team. "Ben Simmons has confirmed he wants to leave Philadelphia and many teams are in the mix to acquire the All-Star. Simmons has stated he would like to go to California, and with some trade assets available, the Warriors look to be in the driver's seat," BetMGM's Darren Darby said. - via Nick Bromberg @ Yahoo! Sports

Looks like the Warriors are emerging as a front-runner for Simmons. Apparently, Simmons want to play for a CA team. Between Golden State and Sacramento, I think he'll get his wish.

Anthony Slater's article in The Athletic this morning makes it sound like Golden State is unlikely to acquire Ben Simmons because they're very high on James Wiseman and Jonathan Kuminga. He says that Bob Myers would probably offer Andrew Wiggins and draft picks at this point and that's just not enough to beat other offers out there.

[Lipoli390]

Here are some excerpts from an article in "The Athletic" that casts doubt on Simmons ending up with the Warriors:

The Warriors front office isn't currently split on whether or not to accept a Ben Simmons trade offer from Philadelphia. There isn't -- and has never been -- a realistic one on the table for them to discuss. Talks can't be considered dead because they've never even really been alive, multiple sources confirm.

The Warriors were among the teams Daryl Morey called during his initial round of over-the-top inquiries. That came before the draft. As has been reported, he asked for a package of Andrew Wiggins, James Wiseman, the seventh and 14th picks and two future first-rounders. There was never bargaining. There was only a decline and a hang up.
Neither side has circled back. Morey certainly might at some point in September. The situation in Philadelphia is only getting more tense as the season creeps closer. If the Sixers slash their asking price significantly, it could warrant deeper discussion within the Warriors, from ownership to Bob Myers' staff on down to the opinionated and involved coaches and veteran players.

Different members of the Warriors organization, at all levels, have varying opinions on all those questions. But several factors make an eventual deal for Simmons unlikely to materialize.

1. The desperation isn't there on both sides. Unhappy stars unsettle situations. The Sixers have an anvil over their head less than a month before camp. The Warriors don't. They have 14 players under guaranteed contract control and those are the 14 that everyone internally is under the assumption will be there to open the season. That includes Curry, now locked into a long-term extension. His signature (and proceeding interview) was his vote of approval on the team's planned path. The Warriors aren't currently initiating any trade calls offering their young players for veterans, Simmons or otherwise. They have zero intention to do so in the coming weeks, sources confirm. Their phone still works. Morey could call and ignite discussions, but the ball doesn't get rolling if it isn't an obvious bargain for the Warriors. That's just the reality of business negotiations. The less desperate side is the one with more leverage.

2. Simmons and his representation will continue to turn up the heat on the Sixers, but if Morey has full autonomy in Philadelphia, he won't be one to make a panic deal, even if that means dragging it into camp or the season to extract proper value. He won't just take Wiggins and a future first-rounder or a Buddy Hield-Marvin Bagley combo because Simmons is a preseason no-show.

3. Joe Lacob isn't bluffing. He does not want to trade James Wiseman or Jonathan Kuminga. You can question his vision, but I wouldn't be skeptical of the transparency.

League execs might view Wiseman and Kuminga as intriguing but unproven young players who sweeten the pot a bit around Wiggins' negative value contract. But they'd be talking to a front office that collectively remains higher on both their futures than the general consensus and Lacob, an ambitious venture capitalist, who has dreams of the two in their early primes connecting on 2026 playoff lobs in front of a packed Chase Center.

I'm not saying the Warriors can't be talked out of trading either. I'm saying it'd be extraordinarily difficult and would probably take some internal pressure. Lacob has called Kuminga and Wiseman (and Jordan Poole and Moses Moody) the organization's "bridge" to the future and he doesn't seem intent on burning it, even for a mid-tier star like Simmons who immediately upgrades the team, but is already on his second contract, a max, and comes attached to legit questions about his game and fit...

The bolded last paragraph above is probably similar to Gersson's thinking when considering Ant and/or McDaniels in any Simmons trade scenario. Edwards and McDaniels are the Wolves bridge to the future if the KAT/DLO tandem doesn't pan out. But Edwards and McDaniels are clearly ahead of Wiseman and Kuminga in their development, which means they have higher current value than Golden State's young duo. That paragraph is also instructive in its characterization of Simmons as a "mid-tier star" with "legit questions about his game and fit."

Overall, this article further underscores the point Cam has been making about Simmons' relatively low market value right now. And that's why Minnesota has a legitimate shot at getting him. But Rosas has to be resolute and not cave to anything other than a substantial bargain price for Simmons. At this point, Morey would be fortunate to get DLO plus Layman and a couple 2nd-round picks for Simmons. In my view, that should be Minnesota's ceiling price to get Simmons.

[AbeVigodaLive]

It's pretty unlikely the Warriors hit it big with all three (or even two) of its recent draft picks.

What's more likely... is that it makes sense to talk them up as much as possible in case a trade for an intriguing player who can help a team that has its three best players over 30 becomes available.

[Monster]

Minnesota: Ben Simmons

Philadelphia: Malcolm Brogdon, Malik Beasley, 2024 first-round pick (via Minnesota), and 2026 first-round pick (via Minnesota)

Indiana: Tyrese Maxey, Taurean Prince, 2022 first-round pick (via Minnesota)

This is what I had in mind for a three-team trade involving the Pacers. I think all teams come out of this relatively happy -- or as happy as Philadelphia could be given the circumstances.

Indiana was apparently willing to offer Brogdon for Simmons. I don't see them giving up Brogdon for Maxey, Prince and a 2022 1st-round pick. Maybe the Wolves can become a third team to facilitate Simmons going to Indiana for Brogdon by sending Beasley and a 2023 1st-round pick to Philly, sending Naz Reid along with 2022 2nd-round pick to Indiana, and getting Myles Turner. Indiana could deal their own 2022 or 2023 1st-round pick to Philly as well. Indiana gets the best player in the deal and the player they were trying to get earlier in exchange for Brogdon. Philly gets a sharp-shooting SG along with Brogdan and a couple of 1st round picks. Minnesota gets the defensive, rim-protected big they need next to KAT in exchange for Beasley and a future protected first. Seems like a fair deal all around.

Minnesota sends Malik Beasley, Naz Reid, a 2023 first-round pick, and a 2022 second-round pick to Indiana and Philadelphia for Myles Turner? That would be an awful trade for the Wolves in my view so I truly hope that's not even being discussed.

Well, the Wolves aren't going to get Simmons for those assets. And Myles Turner, if healthy, would be a huge upgrade for the Wolves up front. He's an elite defender and rim-protector who can also hit threes. The first-round pick would be lottery protected in 2023 and the 2nd rounder is one of three 2nd-round picks the Wolves have next year. So the only significant asset the Wolves would be giving up would be Beasley. I don't think that's a terrible deal for the Wolves unless you believe that Turner won't stay healthy, which would be a legitimate concern and a reason why I might not make that deal. But I hardly think that deal would be "awful" for the Wolves.

Lip you gave up a 1st, a 2nd, Beasley and Naz Reid for Turner. 2 of those assets (ok throw in the 2nd rounder or not) fine but all 4? With Turner's injury history that's a bad trade. Might as well throw in a couple more assets and get Simmons. The reality is both guys I pause about giving up the assets required to get them because of their injury history. Turner is certainly more worrisome of the 2 but I do have some pause about Simmons.

I hear you, Monster. I look at the 2nd-round pick as meaningless from our standpoint given that the Wolves have three of them next year. So it's basically Beasley, Naz Reid and our 2023 lottery-protected 1st for Myles Turner. That's a lot less than the assets people are talking about giving up for Simmons. I think that's a reasonable deal for the Wolves if Myles can stay healthy. However, I understand that' a pretty big if. How would you feel about the trade if Naz were taken out of it? Beasley and a 2023 lottery-protected 1st? Seems reasonable to me, although I'm not sure I'd pull the trigger on it myself. My main point was that Minnesota's involvement in a three-team with Philly and Indiana would make more sense as a way for Indiana to get Simmons than for Minnesota to get him.

I wouldn't do the trade (even removing Naz) because I simply question Turner even staying healthy which we have discussed before. What doesn't make sense is why we need this deal to be a 3 team deal. I would think maybe the Wolves could get Turner for more of a discount...kinda like what happened with Portland basically upgrading from Jones Jr to Nance for only a first round pick. You seemed to have added assets over what you have suggested before to get him. I'm sorry but 3 legit chances at a worthwhile player for 1 good player that might not be able to stay healthy sorry Lip I can't do that. 2 chances? I can see the merit in that although I wouldn't do it.

[Monster]

FWIW the one game I saw Kunings play in SL I actually thought he looked pretty good. I'm not suggesting he should be off the table for a player like Simmons but I can see why the Warriors really like him.

[Lipoli390]

Minnesota: Ben Simmons

Philadelphia: Malcolm Brogdon, Malik Beasley, 2024 first-round pick (via Minnesota), and 2026 first-round pick (via Minnesota)

Indiana: Tyrese Maxey, Taurean Prince, 2022 first-round pick (via Minnesota)

This is what I had in mind for a three-team trade involving the Pacers. I think all teams come out of this relatively happy -- or as happy as Philadelphia could be given the circumstances.

Indiana was apparently willing to offer Brogdon for Simmons. I don't see them giving up Brogdon for Maxey, Prince and a 2022 1st-round pick. Maybe the Wolves can become a third team to facilitate Simmons going to Indiana for Brogdon by sending Beasley and a 2023 1st-round pick to Philly, sending Naz Reid along with 2022 2nd-round pick to Indiana, and getting Myles Turner. Indiana could deal their own 2022 or 2023 1st-round pick to Philly as well. Indiana gets the best player in the deal and the player they were trying to get earlier in exchange for Brogdon. Philly gets a sharp-shooting SG along with Brogdan and a couple of 1st round picks. Minnesota gets the defensive, rim-protected big they need next to KAT in exchange for Beasley and a future protected first. Seems like a fair deal all around.

Minnesota sends Malik Beasley, Naz Reid, a 2023 first-round pick, and a 2022 second-round pick to Indiana and Philadelphia for Myles Turner? That would be an awful trade for the Wolves in my view so I truly hope that's not even being discussed.

Well, the Wolves aren't going to get Simmons for those assets. And Myles Turner, if healthy, would be a huge upgrade for the Wolves up front. He's an elite defender and rim-protector who can also hit threes. The first-round pick would be lottery protected in 2023 and the 2nd rounder is one of three 2nd-round picks the Wolves have next year. So the only significant asset the Wolves would be giving up would be Beasley. I don't think that's a terrible deal for the Wolves unless you believe that Turner won't stay healthy, which would be a legitimate concern and a reason why I might not make that deal. But I hardly think that deal would be "awful" for the Wolves.

Lip you gave up a 1st, a 2nd, Beasley and Naz Reid for Turner. 2 of those assets (ok throw in the 2nd rounder or not) fine but all 4? With Turner's injury history that's a bad trade. Might as well throw in a couple more assets and get Simmons. The reality is both guys I pause about giving up the assets required to get them because of their injury history. Turner is certainly more worrisome of the 2 but I do have some pause about Simmons.

I hear you, Monster. I look at the 2nd-round pick as meaningless from our standpoint given that the Wolves have three of them next year. So it's basically Beasley, Naz Reid and our 2023 lottery-protected 1st for Myles Turner. That's a lot less than the assets people are talking about giving up for Simmons. I think that's a reasonable deal for the Wolves if Myles can stay healthy. However, I understand that' a pretty big if. How would you feel about the trade if Naz were taken out of it? Beasley and a 2023 lottery-protected 1st? Seems reasonable to me, although I'm not sure I'd pull the trigger on it myself. My main point was that Minnesota's involvement in a three-team with Philly and Indiana would make more sense as a way for Indiana to get Simmons than for Minnesota to get him.

I wouldn't do the trade (even removing Naz) because I simply question Turner even staying healthy which we have discussed before. What doesn't make sense is why we need this deal to be a 3 team deal. I would think maybe the Wolves could get Turner for more of a discount...kinda like what happened with Portland basically upgrading from Jones Jr to Nance for only a first round pick. You seemed to have added assets over what you have suggested before to get him. I'm sorry but 3 legit chances at a worthwhile player for 1 good player that might not be able to stay healthy sorry Lip I can't do that. 2 chances? I can see the merit in that although I wouldn't do it.

Monster - Actually, we don't need a three-team to get Turner. I was just offering an example of a three-team with PhIlly and Indiana where we would help facilitate Indiana's acquisition of Simmons. That's all. We could help Indiana by adding Beasley to Brogdon. Indiana doesn't have a scoring guard of Beasley's caliber to pair with Brogdon. Just to be clear, this three-way would never happen because the Wolves don't need Indiana to get Myles and I question whether the Wolves have much interest in him anyway.

[Lipoli390]

It's pretty unlikely the Warriors hit it big with all three (or even two) of its recent draft picks.

What's more likely... is that it makes sense to talk them up as much as possible in case a trade for an intriguing player who can help a team that has its three best players over 30 becomes available.

No doubt there's a lot of posturing going on and the Warriors front office excels in that area. I don't believe for a minute that Kuminga and Wiseman are permanently off the table as part of a package for Simmons or some other all-star player who might become available. But I do believe the Warriors will drive a hard bargain in any deal they negotiate, whether it's for Simmons or someone else. Kuminga and Wiseman are talented young players with significant market value. I can see why the Warriors would want to keep them. I can also see the Warriors trading them. In the meantime, the Warriors front office will continue to use NBA reporters and various sources to pump up the perceived value of their assets.

[Monster]

Minnesota: Ben Simmons

Philadelphia: Malcolm Brogdon, Malik Beasley, 2024 first-round pick (via Minnesota), and 2026 first-round pick (via Minnesota)

Indiana: Tyrese Maxey, Taurean Prince, 2022 first-round pick (via Minnesota)

This is what I had in mind for a three-team trade involving the Pacers. I think all teams come out of this relatively happy -- or as happy as Philadelphia could be given the circumstances.

Indiana was apparently willing to offer Brogdon for Simmons. I don't see them giving up Brogdon for Maxey, Prince and a 2022 1st-round pick. Maybe the Wolves can become a third team to facilitate Simmons going to Indiana for Brogdon by sending Beasley and a 2023 1st-round pick to Philly, sending Naz Reid along with 2022 2nd-round pick to Indiana, and getting Myles Turner. Indiana could deal their own 2022 or 2023 1st-round pick to Philly as well. Indiana gets the best player in the deal and the player they were trying to get earlier in exchange for Brogdon. Philly gets a sharp-shooting SG along with Brogdan and a couple of 1st round picks. Minnesota gets the defensive, rim-protected big they need next to KAT in exchange for Beasley and a future protected first. Seems like a fair deal all around.

Minnesota sends Malik Beasley, Naz Reid, a 2023 first-round pick, and a 2022 second-round pick to Indiana and Philadelphia for Myles Turner? That would be an awful trade for the Wolves in my view so I truly hope that's not even being discussed.

Well, the Wolves aren't going to get Simmons for those assets. And Myles Turner, if healthy, would be a huge upgrade for the Wolves up front. He's an elite defender and rim-protector who can also hit threes. The first-round pick would be lottery protected in 2023 and the 2nd rounder is one of three 2nd-round picks the Wolves have next year. So the only significant asset the Wolves would be giving up would be Beasley. I don't think that's a terrible deal for the Wolves unless you believe that Turner won't stay healthy, which would be a legitimate concern and a reason why I might not make that deal. But I hardly think that deal would be "awful" for the Wolves.

Lip you gave up a 1st, a 2nd, Beasley and Naz Reid for Turner. 2 of those assets (ok throw in the 2nd rounder or not) fine but all 4? With Turner's injury history that's a bad trade. Might as well throw in a couple more assets and get Simmons. The reality is both guys I pause about giving up the assets required to get them because of their injury history. Turner is certainly more worrisome of the 2 but I do have some pause about Simmons.

I hear you, Monster. I look at the 2nd-round pick as meaningless from our standpoint given that the Wolves have three of them next year. So it's basically Beasley, Naz Reid and our 2023 lottery-protected 1st for Myles Turner. That's a lot less than the assets people are talking about giving up for Simmons. I think that's a reasonable deal for the Wolves if Myles can stay healthy. However, I understand that' a pretty big if. How would you feel about the trade if Naz were taken out of it? Beasley and a 2023 lottery-protected 1st? Seems reasonable to me, although I'm not sure I'd pull the trigger on it myself. My main point was that Minnesota's involvement in a three-team with Philly and Indiana would make more sense as a way for Indiana to get Simmons than for Minnesota to get him.

I wouldn't do the trade (even removing Naz) because I simply question Turner even staying healthy which we have discussed before. What doesn't make sense is why we need this deal to be a 3 team deal. I would think maybe the Wolves could get Turner for more of a discount...kinda like what happened with Portland basically upgrading from Jones Jr to Nance for only a first round pick. You seemed to have added assets over what you have suggested before to get him. I'm sorry but 3 legit chances at a worthwhile player for 1 good player that might not be able to stay healthy sorry Lip I can't do that. 2 chances? I can see the merit in that although I wouldn't do it.

Monster - Actually, we don't need a three-team to get Turner. I was just offering an example of a three-team with PhIlly and Indiana where we would help facilitate Indiana's acquisition of Simmons. That's all. We could help Indiana by adding Beasley to Brogdon. Indiana doesn't have a scoring guard of Beasley's caliber to pair with Brogdon. Just to be clear, this three-way would never happen because the Wolves don't need Indiana to get Myles and I'm question whether the Wolves have much interest in him anyway.

Did you forget that the Pacers have Lavert? Also looking at the Pacers I realized I forgot that TJ Warren basically missed the whole season with a foot injury. That was not a small loss. If they get him back that's going to help along with a HOF coach. If the Pacers can somehow stay healthy they could be a team that surprises people somewhat and maybe they make an in season move to add to their roster. They will miss McDermott but adding Craig was a solid move. They could be a really good defensive team with a number of guys that can score.

Edit: I should say that a 3 team deal does make sense with Beasley going to Indiana be use the assumption would be Brogdon would go to the Pacers and Beasley would fit in with Lavert and Simmons. Like I said to get excited about this would mean that the Wolves bet Turner for some worth of good deal which might be say Beasley (maybe Layman if Daley filler is needed) and a 2nd rounder. I would do that deal and take a chance on Turner's health. My guess is that the Pacers could find a better deal but of course maybe the Wolves could find someone willing to pay a nice amount in assets if they made Beasley available. Who knows. Thanks for the back and forth.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

In fairness to Lip, he never mentioned a three-team trade with Indiana until I shared my example that lands Ben Simmons in Minnesota by including Malcolm Brogdon to Philadelphia. I'm sure he doesn't think it's necessary to expand the trade just to acquire Myles Turner.

Whether or not my three-team deal is feasible is a different story. I think Brogdon could probably be had. I think the Sixers would have real interest. This was just one of the few three-team trade options that I see out there that could be possible.