Minnesota Sports Forum

Posted: **Sun May 20, 2018 10:24 pm**

worldK wrote:Hypothetically. If sixers call and offer fultz and the 10th pick for jimmy. Will you go for it?

If they'd include Covington and take on Diengs contract I would.

Butler, Dieng and 48th pick for 10th pick, Fultz, Covington and Bayless.

Posted: **Sun May 20, 2018 10:58 pm**

I'd want Fultz, Saric and the rights to either of the Bridges in the draft.

Posted: **Sun May 20, 2018 11:07 pm**

kekgeek1 wrote:I think we should all remember even the great Warriors were not built in a day. I mean they won 23 games (where there fans were booing their own off the court) then they went out and added an All NBA center the next year in Bogut. They won 47 games (the same as the wolves this year), now this was without Draymond Green being nothing at as a rookie. But they started the winning culture, they went on to add Iggy via trade getting rid of all their bad contracts to obtain him. They took a mini step and won 51 games and lost in the 1st round of the playoffs. Then they took off and they fired Jackson and hired Kerr. They added Speights, Livingston and Barbosa for a combined 10 million.

They developed a winning culture 1st, they had nothing from Draymond in his 1st year and played 20 minutes in the 2nd year. Players developed internally while adding above average vet talent. They also were able to add role players on the cheap.

In the end the Wolves need to have their young guys need to continue to develop from KAT to Amile Jefferson. Adding our vets helps with the winning culture and should give the Wolves guys experiences on what they need to work on. Maybe Thibs is the Mark Jackson in this situation, but I would rather be in the situation we are in now where players are learning how to win than hoping 5 other young guys figure out how to win in the waste land of lottery pick after lottery pick.

Adding Bogut had little or nothing to do with the Warriors jump from 23 wins to 47 wins. What was the difference? Curry went from playing in only 23 games to playing in 74. Bingo, that's the difference. Oh, and they added Draymond Green the season they won 47 games. And guess how many games Bogut played in that 47-win season? Answer: 32. So no, Bogut had next to nothing to do with the Warriors success that season or thereafter. It was smart drafting of players like Curry, Thompson and Green and their patience as they developed them and stuck with Curry in spite of his ankle problems.

Posted: **Sun May 20, 2018 11:10 pm**

CoolBreeze44 wrote:The best organizations find the right players. It doesn't matter to me as a fan how you do it, just that you do it. I don't care who was predicted over whom by what experts. The scoreboard says the Jazz found Gobert and Mitchell and we didn't. If you want to apologize for your front office (Like Minnesota sports fans have been doing for decades) that's within your right as a fan. But it's my right to critique the job our GM's do after the fact, even if I didn't disclose the right path before it. I don't get paid to do that.

With Butler, Thibs has limited our potential to become a contender even though he is our best player. As i see it, his only chance is to turn Butler into multiple assets so we can continue to build around KAT. He shot for the moon too soon with Jimmy. It was the right idea but it came at a high cost and at the wrong time.

Well said, Cool. I agree with you completely on this. The best organizations find the right players -- usually primarily in the draft, but not exclusively. I'll add that the best organizations also hire the right head coach to develop and bring out the best in those players. It's clear that Thibs sees this team as built around Jimmy Butler. A team built around Butler isn't going to overtake the Warriors or even the Rockets in the next couple seasons. Jimmy's age, lack of durability and contract situation don't line up with becoming a title contender over the long haul. This team has to be built around the 23-year old KAT and possibly the 23-year old Wiggins. We need to continue developing those two guys as well as Tyus while also adding more young talent. I agree that the best move the Wolves can make this summer would be trading Butler. Unfortunately, that won't happen if Thibs remains in charge as he probably will.

Posted: **Sun May 20, 2018 11:22 pm**

KiwiMatt wrote:
worldK wrote:Hypothetically. If sixers call and offer fultz and the 10th pick for jimmy. Will you go for it?

If they'd include Covington and take on Diengs contract I would.

Butler, Dieng and 48th pick for 10th pick, Fultz, Covington and Bayless.

This sounds like a very reasonable deal. Philly is looking to add bron,pg or kawhi but are unlikely to get any of those 3. Jimmy is probably at the same tier as pg and a proven impact player.

Posted: **Sun May 20, 2018 11:24 pm**

worldK wrote:
KiwiMatt wrote:
worldK wrote:Hypothetically. If sixers call and offer fultz and the 10th pick for jimmy. Will you go for it?

If they'd include Covington and take on Diengs contract I would.

Butler, Dieng and 48th pick for 10th pick, Fultz, Covington and Bayless.

This sounds like a very reasonable deal. Philly is looking to add bron,pg or kawhi but are unlikely to get any of those 3. Jimmy is probably at the same tier as pg and a proven impact player.

I agree. I see this deal as a good one for the Wolves and a realistic one. I'd prefer Saric over Covington though. But I'm not sure if that's as realistic.

Posted: **Sun May 20, 2018 11:27 pm**

lipoli390 wrote:
kekgeek1 wrote:I think we should all remember even the great Warriors were not built in a day. I mean they won 23 games (where there fans were booing their own off the court) then they went out and added an All NBA center the next year in Bogut. They won 47 games (the same as the wolves this year), now this was without Draymond Green being nothing at as a rookie. But they started the winning culture, they went on to add Iggy via trade getting rid of all their bad contracts to obtain him. They took a mini step and won 51 games and lost in the 1st round of the playoffs. Then they took off and they fired Jackson and hired Kerr. They added Speights, Livingston and Barbosa for a combined 10 million.

They developed a winning culture 1st, they had nothing from Draymond in his 1st year and played 20 minutes in the 2nd year. Players developed internally while adding above average vet talent. They also were able to add role players on the cheap.

In the end the Wolves need to have their young guys need to continue to develop from KAT to Amile Jefferson. Adding our vets helps with the winning culture and should give the Wolves guys experiences on what they need to work on. Maybe Thibs is the Mark Jackson in this situation, but I would rather be in the situation we are in now where players are learning how to win than hoping 5 other young guys figure out how to win in the waste land of lottery pick after lottery pick.

Adding Bogut had little or nothing to do with the Warriors jump from 23 wins to 47 wins. What was the difference? Curry went from playing in only 23 games to playing in 74. Bingo, that's the difference. Oh, and they added Draymond Green the season they won 47 games. And guess how many games Bogut played in that 47-win season? Answer: 32. So no, Bogut had next to nothing to do with the Warriors success that season or thereafter. It was smart drafting of players like Curry, Thompson and Green and their patience as they developed them and stuck with Curry in spite of his ankle problems.

Also drafting Harrison Barnes, Ezeli and adding a solid vets Like Carl Landry and Jarrett Jack certainly didn't hurt things either. Ironically Bogut played the same amount of games as Ellis played the previous year. What we now know is that in a number of ways it was an addition by subtraction and Jerry west is a freaking genius.

Lip you alluded to what was a bigtime factor in the jump to 47 wins and that's health. The previous year Klay was the high guy in games played with 66. The 47 win season they had 8 guys that played 78 games or more including 3 rookies. Their 4th rookie on that team was Kent Bazemore. Unbelievable rookie class they had and the crazy thing is only one of those guys is left. Man they screwed that up right? :) jk Regardless they added some pretty nice talent to that team both with young guys and vets.

Posted: **Sun May 20, 2018 11:45 pm**

lipoli390 wrote:
worldK wrote:
KiwiMatt wrote:
worldK wrote:Hypothetically. If sixers call and offer fultz and the 10th pick for jimmy. Will you go for it?

If they'd include Covington and take on Diengs contract I would.

Butler, Dieng and 48th pick for 10th pick, Fultz, Covington and Bayless.

This sounds like a very reasonable deal. Philly is looking to add bron,pg or kawhi but are unlikely to get any of those 3. Jimmy is probably at the same tier as pg and a proven impact player.

I agree. I see this deal as a good one for the Wolves and a realistic one. I'd prefer Saric over Covington though. But I'm not sure if that's as realistic.

Most of us would prefer saric. It is unrealistic though as the sixers love him and he is a perfect fit next to embiid and playing off simmons. Im not as enamored with covington as some here are but he is legit nba rotation player on a pretty decent salary. He is actually signed to more years than dieng is at a more manageable deal but he wont be a deal breaker for me.

The main asset is fultz and the 10th pick. Fultz wont be a bust unless he suffered a major career ending injury. He is a very high reward/low risk player in my view. We probably went from being a sure playoff team next year with jimmy to being a team that falls anywhere from 6th worst to a possible surprised playoff team ala utah this year.(That is if kat and wig took giant steps forward and fultz had the impact a ben simmons had this year). Of course all this is only a possibility if thibs get fired soon.

Posted: **Sun May 20, 2018 11:57 pm**

monsterpile wrote:
lipoli390 wrote:
kekgeek1 wrote:I think we should all remember even the great Warriors were not built in a day. I mean they won 23 games (where there fans were booing their own off the court) then they went out and added an All NBA center the next year in Bogut. They won 47 games (the same as the wolves this year), now this was without Draymond Green being nothing at as a rookie. But they started the winning culture, they went on to add Iggy via trade getting rid of all their bad contracts to obtain him. They took a mini step and won 51 games and lost in the 1st round of the playoffs. Then they took off and they fired Jackson and hired Kerr. They added Speights, Livingston and Barbosa for a combined 10 million.

They developed a winning culture 1st, they had nothing from Draymond in his 1st year and played 20 minutes in the 2nd year. Players developed internally while adding above average vet talent. They also were able to add role players on the cheap.

In the end the Wolves need to have their young guys need to continue to develop from KAT to Amile Jefferson. Adding our vets helps with the winning culture and should give the Wolves guys experiences on what they need to work on. Maybe Thibs is the Mark Jackson in this situation, but I would rather be in the situation we are in now where players are learning how to win than hoping 5 other young guys figure out how to win in the waste land of lottery pick after lottery pick.

Adding Bogut had little or nothing to do with the Warriors jump from 23 wins to 47 wins. What was the difference? Curry went from playing in only 23 games to playing in 74. Bingo, that's the difference. Oh, and they added Draymond Green the season they won 47 games. And guess how many games Bogut played in that 47-win season? Answer: 32. So no, Bogut had next to nothing to do with the Warriors success that season or thereafter. It was smart drafting of players like Curry, Thompson and Green and their patience as they developed them and stuck with Curry in spite of his ankle problems.

Also drafting Harrison Barnes, Ezeli and adding a solid vets Like Carl Landry and Jarrett Jack certainly didn't hurt things either. Ironically Bogut played the same amount of games as Ellis played the previous year. What we now know is that in a number of ways it was an addition by subtraction and Jerry west is a freaking genius.

Lip you alluded to what was a bigtime factor in the jump to 47 wins and that's health. The previous year Klay was the high guy in games played with 66. The 47 win season they had 8 guys that played 78 games or more including 3 rookies. Their 4th rookie on that team was Kent Bazemore. Unbelievable rookie class they had and the crazy thing is only one of those guys is left. Man they screwed that up right? :) jk Regardless they added some pretty nice talent to that team both with young guys and vets.

Landry was the vet who really made a difference that season as I recall. But the bottom line is that Curry went from playing 23 games to 74 games. Bogut was non-factor playing only 32 games. Landry and Jack helped at the margins, but no more than the added rookies Barnes and Ezeli. The notion that Landry and Jarrett Jack or Bogut in his 32 games created a "winning culture" is kind of silly. The team jumped to 47 games primarily because Curry returned from injury while the other two young budding allstars improved. And it's those three around whom the best team in the West for the last 4 years has been built. Those three along with the style of play and reputation of Steve Kerr provided the foundation for attracting Kevin Durant.

The Wolves jumped to 47 games mainly because of the additions of Butler and Gibson. In that sense, adding those two guys worked. But I agree with Cool that Butler and Gibson are not the answer long term.

Posted: **Mon May 21, 2018 7:34 am**

I think Wolves current situation looks pretty similar to 2013-14 Golden State. Golden State had just 'sacrifaced' their future by trading two first round picks for 29 year old Iggy and despite that trade they did improve only 4 games with Iggy playing only 63 games and having his lowest scoring average since his rookie season. At least Butler was still all star level player with Wolves and helped Wolves to get pla

I'm pretty sure nobody expected Golden State to make dramatic improvement for next season and many were questioning move that they had made for Iggy.

If Wolves youngsters will make similar improvement than Golden State players made next season, trade for Butler will look just great like even Iggy trade looked afterwards. If KAT will be MVP or at least bona fide MVP candidate like Curry was 2014-15, Wiggins one of the most efficient two way shooting guards like Thompson was and Tyus Jones surprise us by becoming upgrade compared to Teague as starter, like Green did, Wolves can make similar improvement than Warriors did. Of course it is not probable that above happens but if it would, our management and their moves would look just as brilliant as Golden State management looked.

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