Who's got the GDT? - Pelicans at Wolves GDT

[Coolbreeze44]

What was controversial and far-fetched was your take that his off court behavior sexually equates to low IQ on the court, when there is ample evidence of past sports legends (and world class performers from other professions including your own admission on Elon Musk) that the two things are mutually exclusive. I don't recall anyone actually retorting that Ant's on court IQ was awesome and couldn't use improvement.

The other thing you declared was that he can't be the best player on a title team. That's hardly a bold statement when most NBA players never win titles to begin with. It's a league that has largely been dominated by dynasties over the years and there are plenty of great players that didn't/haven't won a title. Heck, the greatest player in a generation, Nikola Jokic, has only won one title. And the reality is he's the best we've got for right now and no matter what you think, the front office isn't trading him anytime soon.

It's not just the Ant takes you reference. We could talk about my takes on DLO, McDaniels, Clark, Towns, Butler, Mobley, Beverly, Brewer, Crawford, Culver, Dunn, Flynn, Hudson - I mean how many do you want me to name?

I never said the front office was going to trade Ant, just that it SHOULD be on the table. We could have Luka right now but smart guys like you and your paradigms won't allow for such thinking. And for the record, my take on Ant has less to do about his off court activities and more to do with his overall lack of intelligence and self awareness. I don't know exactly what it is, but he's missing something that the true greats possess.

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Well, Luka hasn't won a title yet either! Remember how he was relentlessly targeted last year by Boston in the Finals? He's a flawed player as well.

It's hard to detach your takes on Ant's on court decisions without your referencing his off court exploits since you made it very clear how you thought the two were linked.

And my paradigms aren't as fixed as you may think. There are all sorts of things that I might think make sense hypothetically but I don't think are realistic. One of them is trading Ant. I'll be proven wrong if he suddenly gets moved in the next year or two, but I doubt that's going to happen.

And finally, for all the patting yourself on the back you like to do, you get some things really wrong too just like the rest of us.

You're right that Ant isn't going to get traded, no disagreement there.

And yes, I'm wrong about a lot of things, no question about it. But I AM willing to stick my neck out and make declarations long before they become fashionable. All I'm asking is that people keep an open mind to these things and not immediately resort to flaming and telling me how ridiculous I am. I'm responding to you because you have challenged me on this here today. I don't necessarily include you in the group I'm talking about.

[Coolbreeze44]

I guess I'll chime in on Cool's behalf that I think it's more than the fact that some of us believe Ant can't be the best player on a championship team, it's that his lack of basketball acumen falls so far short of that of other teams' star players. He ranks with the best in the league in terms of pure athleticism, scoring and overall skill, but he ranks far behind in his understanding of what it takes to win. His comments like "there's nothing I can do if they double team me" or his comment last night that there is no problem with our end of game execution are more than just dumb...they demonstrate a lack of understanding of basic basketball strategy that then becomes tragically obvious in clutch situations. There's probably no way that the Wolves would ever consider trading Ant, but I find it far from a preposterous discussion topic. He's remarkably talented and a really exciting player to watch (at times...his top of the key ball hogging is not exciting), and there's always hope that a young player can still develop better court sense, but I have a lagging concern that continuing to go forward with Ant as our star might doom us to a decade of 42-48 win seasons. I hope I'm wrong.

I should add that while I have been enormously frustrated with our offense with games on the line and Ant in particular, as others have pointed out, there were other reasons for our loss last night. I would add to the list Ju's 6 turnovers, Jaden having zero rebounds (and only taking 4 shots), and Finchie only giving Clark 12 minutes when he was obviously someone causing the Pelicans fits at both ends of the court.

You make a good point about Jaden not getting rebounds and only 4 shots. But why is that? I can't speak for the bad rebounding night, I guess it happens, but he was so uninvolved with the offense early on that you could sense a night like this was coming. That man should not only get his share of looks, he should be a featured part of this offense. He was doing his part on defense with the blocks and being ignored on offense. And then he gets the hook at the 7 minute mark and I don't think he had even taken a shot. There is still an issue with the Ant-Ju dynamic that crops up from time to time. To me it all comes down to one thing - move the ball and make the extra pass - like Jaden does. There is enough for everyone to eat.

[60WinTim]

Well, Jaden’s biggest problem was picking up 2 early fouls, getting himself yanked…

[Phenom]

I have a hard time saying Ant can't do this or that at this point considering he was supposed to be a cross breed between Dion Waiters and Andrew Wiggins. We were all told he doesn't like the game but he has blown that out of the water. We were all told he isn't going to be a good shooter but he is. We were all told he isn't a winner since he never won anything before but he must be top 2 in wins for this franchise in their first 4 seasons.

As I'm typing this I'm starting to realize what is going on here. Let's keep pushing the narrative of what he can't do. I think I'm on board now.

[Coolbreeze44]

Well, Jaden’s biggest problem was picking up 2 early fouls, getting himself yanked…

This is true. And like Q said, sometimes he tries to commit a foul

[Coolbreeze44]

I have a hard time saying Ant can't do this or that at this point considering he was supposed to be a cross breed between Dion Waiters and Andrew Wiggins. We were all told he doesn't like the game but he has blown that out of the water. We were all told he isn't going to be a good shooter but he is. We were all told he isn't a winner since he never won anything before but he must be top 2 in wins for this franchise in their first 4 seasons.

As I'm typing this I'm starting to realize what is going on here. Let's keep pushing the narrative of what he can't do. I think I'm on board now.

He's a great basketball player and probably the best athlete in the league. It's really hard to land a guy like him. I'm not saying we SHOULD trade him, but I believe his trade value exceeds his real value. He would probably bring back a record return. Just food for thought.

[rapsuperstar31]

It's still too early to say anything definitive. Ant may lead us to that championship one day, and he might not. What he has consistently shown in the playoffs is that he has another gear that he can take his game. Last year was our first playoff win in 20 years..20 years! That is a long time to suffer. Could Ant net 10 first round picks and young players, probably. Could none of those picks hit, absolutely. Utah has gotten worse and worse every year despite the players they got from both us and Cleveland and all those picks they got. What Ant did in the playoffs last year was a once 20 year event for this franchise. Something someone 19 years old had never seen prior if they had been watching the Wolves their whole life. Maybe Ant doesn't bring us there again, hell Trae Young had a huge run one year to the ECF and it looked like Atlanta was set up for years of success. They've gotten worse every year since. Booker looked like the next superstar and brought his team to the Finals. His team has gotten worse every year since and now he's 28. Tatum was drafted to a team that had just been to the finals. You couldn't be drafted into a better spot, and it still took him 7 seasons to win a title being put on a dream team.

[thedoper]

Im going to go out on a limb here and support the 23 year old who has already lead us to the conference finals. You dont improve every year without basketball IQ. We finally made it out of the dark ages, lets not get too cute here and think we cant go back by trading our best player. The negative traits of a player will always get magnified when there is team struggle. Jordan was a ball hog, Lebron was not clutch, Jokic was fat and couldnt defend, Giannis couldnt shoot, this list could go on forever. If Ant ends up being this generation’s Barkley Im ok with that, he’s electric on the court. Hes also an ironman, which is rare in a generation of players looking for rest. Yes he should wear condoms, lot of them, just like Magic.

[Wolvesfan21]

Im going to go out on a limb here and support the 23 year old who has already lead us to the conference finals. You dont improve every year without basketball IQ. We finally made it out of the dark ages, lets not get too cute here and think we cant go back by trading our best player. The negative traits of a player will always get magnified when there is team struggle. Jordan was a ball hog, Lebron was not clutch, Jokic was fat and couldnt defend, Giannis couldnt shoot, this list could go on forever. If Ant ends up being this generation’s Barkley Im ok with that, he’s electric on the court. Hes also an ironman, which is rare in a generation of players looking for rest. Yes he should wear condoms, lot of them, just like Magic.

Agreed, I remember when people where too harsh or highly critical of KG, especially for not winning in the playoffs most years. I think it's OK to be critical if fair because no player is perfect, (even LeBron or Jordan, Jordan missed a bunch of game winners too, especially earlier on, I remember people saying he couldn't win it all. Couldn't beat the Pistons!) thing is not to go overboard by saying we should trade them. You don't win big by trading your best young or prime superstar. We couldn't surround KG with enough talent and that was the downfall.

It's typically the others that are not pulling their own weight. Now a guy like KAT shrunk in the playoffs, his numbers went down, his effectiveness went down. Ant is the opposite. His numbers and effectiveness go up. He struggles on a random game 68 against a Pelican squad who is undermanned. He doesn't have the motivation. It's been a fair criticism.

But really, considering last years playoffs (bit sucky at home) and this years home record (again a bit sucky at home). Do we even care if they have home court or not? I don't think it matters for this team. They could be the 6 seed and I honestly don't think their chances to make the finals are any less.

Now let's see in the end if we can surround Ant with enough talent so he can also be ultimately successful.

I also agree with Q in that, you're not going out on a limb by saying Ant will never win a championship. Most players don't. SGA might not. Luka might not. Ant might not. But I'd rather have them on my team then some stupid dart throw draft picks. It took twenty years of dart throws till we got Ant. I am not looking to do that again anytime soon.

[Coolbreeze44]

I guess I have to repeat myself again. I'm not saying we should trade Ant just for the sake of getting rid of him. But if Dallas called and wanted Ant for Luka, hell yes I'm making that trade. If the Wizards get the number 1 pick and they want to trade us #1, Bill Sarr, and Bilal Coulibaly, yes I'm making that trade. I don't want to close my eyes to something that could make us better.