Minnesota Sports Forum

Just when you thought it was over...

The Wolves have added undrafted guard Ashton Hagans out of Kentucky on a two-way deal.

mrhockey89 wrote:Additionally, 4 of the last 9 1st overall picks have Anthony in their first names. This was destined.

Interesting side note!

mrhockey89 wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

mrhockey89 wrote:Why does noone even want to give some sort of benefit of the doubt to our front office when they literally broke down not only the analytics for months, but watched every minute of game tape from each of these guys, and surely more than all of us. Like I said, wasn't my dream draft, but we're talking as if we already know the result of all of their careers. Step back from the cliff gentlemen.

Pretty sure there were a lot of people excited about Derrick Williams, pissed at trading OJ Mayo for Love+Mike Miller, and on cloud 9 when we were able to land Maple Jordan for Love. With that said, while I think it's fair to feel disappointment right now if they didn't draft your guy, that doesn't mean they won't end up being the right guys. Right now we should be in the "what will the team look like" mode, and get some anticipation going for the upcoming season.

Sure. You might be right. And I've fully admitted I'm no draft expert. And since I know the usual draft odds of hitting on picks... I'll be happy if any of them turn out to be a solid starter.

But I do have a certain type of player I like to watch. And none of the guys the Wolves picked are the type of NBA players I'm attracted to.

And... Vecenie and Hollinger are also guys who get paid to do this stuff. So I wouldn't dismiss their takes as much as most of us yahoos on here.

Abe, change your face.

And FWIW, Jaden McDaniels was #1 on Jay Bilas' big board when the Wolves picked him.

The raw numbers: 13.0 points, 5.8 rebounds, 2.1 assists and 3.2 turnovers per game, 3.3 fouls per game... with 40.5 percent shooting overall and 33.9 percent efficiency from 3-point range.

6 technical fouls.

Benched from a team that was 5 - 17 in the Pac 10.

Some people see the rankings and the athleticism and the high school rankings... I see production. I see guys who know HOW to play.

Some people see the promise... I see enigmas who we have to "hope" decide to work their hardest while earning millions.
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Remember, there's a very real reason Rashad McCants is my all-time LEAST favorite NBA player. And there are reasons why I never liked Wiggins.

As noted... I just hope one of these guys pan out.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

mrhockey89 wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

mrhockey89 wrote:Why does noone even want to give some sort of benefit of the doubt to our front office when they literally broke down not only the analytics for months, but watched every minute of game tape from each of these guys, and surely more than all of us. Like I said, wasn't my dream draft, but we're talking as if we already know the result of all of their careers. Step back from the cliff gentlemen.

Pretty sure there were a lot of people excited about Derrick Williams, pissed at trading OJ Mayo for Love+Mike Miller, and on cloud 9 when we were able to land Maple Jordan for Love. With that said, while I think it's fair to feel disappointment right now if they didn't draft your guy, that doesn't mean they won't end up being the right guys. Right now we should be in the "what will the team look like" mode, and get some anticipation going for the upcoming season.

Sure. You might be right. And I've fully admitted I'm no draft expert. And since I know the usual draft odds of hitting on picks... I'll be happy if any of them turn out to be a solid starter.

But I do have a certain type of player I like to watch. And none of the guys the Wolves picked are the type of NBA players I'm attracted to.

And... Vecenie and Hollinger are also guys who get paid to do this stuff. So I wouldn't dismiss their takes as much as most of us yahoos on here.

Abe, change your face.

And FWIW, Jaden McDaniels was #1 on Jay Bilas' big board when the Wolves picked him.

The raw numbers: 13.0 points, 5.8 rebounds, 2.1 assists and 3.2 turnovers per game, 3.3 fouls per game... with 40.5 percent shooting overall and 33.9 percent efficiency from 3-point range.

6 technical fouls.

Benched from a team that was 5 - 17 in the Pac 10.

Some people see the rankings and the athleticism and the high school rankings... I see production. I see guys who know HOW to play.

Some people see the promise... I see enigmas who we have to "hope" decide to work their hardest while earning millions.
-----

Remember, there's a very real reason Rashad McCants is my all-time LEAST favorite NBA player. And there are reasons why I never liked Wiggins.

Heh. Wait until you read about his history off the court. He's not a likable kid either.

Hockey - I'm in the "what will this team look like mode." And what I see is really ugly. As I said in a post yesterday or the day before, all the preparation, process and information in the world won't matter without good judgment. The discussion posted above between Vecenie and Hollinger is telling. There is no glossing over or ignoring the reality that Edwards and McDaniel both repeatedly displayed lack of competitive drive and a poor feel for the game. Then trading up for Balmaro, another poor-shooting guard, with all the other talent on the board at that point is mystifying.

Yes, I was actually excited about Derrick Williams. I was enticed by his combination of size and athleticism. But he turned out to be a player with a low-rev motor who loved the NBA lifestyle more than he loved the NBA game. I don't know how or why Kahn missed that or maybe he knew and ignored Derrick's motor issues the way he brushed those issues aside when he gave Darko a long-term contract. In this case, the lack of competitive drive and work ethic associated with both Edwards and McDaniel were obvious and recognized by every single respected draft analyst. Edwards himself pretty much told us about his lack of passion for the game and poor work ethic. And his teams have lost at every level he's played.

Edwards and/or McDaniel might prove me and others wrong about them. That would be great. But the evidence is so overwhelming that I don't see that happening. Rosas screwed up last year's draft in the most elemental way, trading up for a player under the mistaken believe he would be there for the taking. He then drafted a poor shooter at the same time he intended to ramp up the team's three-point shooting. Tonight, Rosas picked up where he left off and screwed up this draft by ignoring obvious and serious red flags. He used the top pick in the draft and another first round pick to take two of the three players in the entire draft who were most notorious for their lack of competitiveness, work ethic and basketball IQ. Moreover, as a team that expects to live and die by the three-point shot, they oddly used all three of their picks on poor shooters -- all this on the heels of last year's draft when they took another poor shooter with their one first round pick at #6. Tonight was worse than taking Dunn over either Murray or Hield and worse than taking Patton over Collins or Anunoby. It was even worse than taking Flynn over Curry because Curry was a fierce competitor and talented player who probably would have been very successful if not for a serious hip injury in his second season.

Seriously, what Rosas did tonight was one of the worst displays of amateurism and poor judgment I've ever seen from an NBA franchise on draft night. And that's amazing given that I'm a Wolves fan.

Hey we made it to page 69. Nice

Camden0916 wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

mrhockey89 wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

mrhockey89 wrote:Why does noone even want to give some sort of benefit of the doubt to our front office when they literally broke down not only the analytics for months, but watched every minute of game tape from each of these guys, and surely more than all of us. Like I said, wasn't my dream draft, but we're talking as if we already know the result of all of their careers. Step back from the cliff gentlemen.

Pretty sure there were a lot of people excited about Derrick Williams, pissed at trading OJ Mayo for Love+Mike Miller, and on cloud 9 when we were able to land Maple Jordan for Love. With that said, while I think it's fair to feel disappointment right now if they didn't draft your guy, that doesn't mean they won't end up being the right guys. Right now we should be in the "what will the team look like" mode, and get some anticipation going for the upcoming season.

Sure. You might be right. And I've fully admitted I'm no draft expert. And since I know the usual draft odds of hitting on picks... I'll be happy if any of them turn out to be a solid starter.

But I do have a certain type of player I like to watch. And none of the guys the Wolves picked are the type of NBA players I'm attracted to.

And... Vecenie and Hollinger are also guys who get paid to do this stuff. So I wouldn't dismiss their takes as much as most of us yahoos on here.

Abe, change your face.

And FWIW, Jaden McDaniels was #1 on Jay Bilas' big board when the Wolves picked him.

The raw numbers: 13.0 points, 5.8 rebounds, 2.1 assists and 3.2 turnovers per game, 3.3 fouls per game... with 40.5 percent shooting overall and 33.9 percent efficiency from 3-point range.

6 technical fouls.

Benched from a team that was 5 - 17 in the Pac 10.

Some people see the rankings and the athleticism and the high school rankings... I see production. I see guys who know HOW to play.

Some people see the promise... I see enigmas who we have to "hope" decide to work their hardest while earning millions.
-----

Remember, there's a very real reason Rashad McCants is my all-time LEAST favorite NBA player. And there are reasons why I never liked Wiggins.

Heh. Wait until you read about his history off the court. He's not a likable kid either.

Like I always say, this team overvalues character. How much of Jarrett Culver's character did you enjoy when he was clanking 60% of his free throws? Rubio is a great guy. Didn't stop you guys from whining about his acquisition tonight. This is an unlikable organization, but you still root for them.

Just don't watch them with emotional attachment. Just wait and see from afar. If you allow this team to keep angering you, it's your fault.

mrhockey89 wrote:Why does noone even want to give some sort of benefit of the doubt to our front office when they literally broke down not only the analytics for months, but watched every minute of game tape from each of these guys, and surely more than all of us. Like I said, wasn't my dream draft, but we're talking as if we already know the result of all of their careers. Step back from the cliff gentlemen.

Pretty sure there were a lot of people excited about Derrick Williams, pissed at trading OJ Mayo for Love+Mike Miller, and on cloud 9 when we were able to land Maple Jordan for Love. With that said, while I think it's fair to feel disappointment right now if they didn't draft your guy, that doesn't mean they won't end up being the right guys. Right now we should be in the "what will the team look like" mode, and get some anticipation going for the upcoming season.

Ricky/Russel/Edwards/Culver/Okogie/J Mac. You got 96 minutes for 6 players at their best positions. Could you play some of them at the 3? Maybe, but you are creating a mismatch for the other team just as much as you are trying to create one playing with 3 guards on the floor at a time. It will work some of the time and probably get torched just as much as well. Even if you just played that group exclusively 1-3 while ignoring the rest of the roster, some guys would be missing out on minutes.

Our frontcourt situation is actually just a fucking disaster of a dumpster fire right now. We have Towns and literally nobody else who's proven on the roster to be decent. Naz will back him up and the traditional 3 and 4 spots are completely wide open for anyone to take because most of the options are just bad. Oh and by the way those happen to be the 2 most important positions for small ball to work that require the most talented and versatile players in the league to play at a championship level. Small ball works when Lebron and Kawhi and Giannis and KD play the 4. Will it work when Edwards is guarding the 3/4's because he has the best size to matchup with those guys? Will it work with Juan or Vanderbuilt or McDaniels at those spots? We're trying to bake a cake building this team and we are missing the most important ingredients that make the cake good.

And we just neutered a lot of our trade leverage to land one of those important players because nobody is going to trade an all-star for 3 guards and one of our nobody 4's that would be buried on the bench on a good team. We're pretty much all in on Rubio/Russell/Edwards/Towns being good enough to be a contender because we just have total scraps to offer to get them quality help.

Rosas has moved an awful lot of furniture in his time here which makes it difficult to believe he is successfully carrying out his vision and instead is just throwing a bunch of fucking darts at a board blindfolded and hoping something saves his ass. I know I'd 100% rather be playing out this season with Russell/Edwards/Covington/FA/Towns as our starters than Ricky/Russel/Culver/Edwards/Towns.

WildWolf2813 wrote:

Camden0916 wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

mrhockey89 wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

mrhockey89 wrote:Why does noone even want to give some sort of benefit of the doubt to our front office when they literally broke down not only the analytics for months, but watched every minute of game tape from each of these guys, and surely more than all of us. Like I said, wasn't my dream draft, but we're talking as if we already know the result of all of their careers. Step back from the cliff gentlemen.

Pretty sure there were a lot of people excited about Derrick Williams, pissed at trading OJ Mayo for Love+Mike Miller, and on cloud 9 when we were able to land Maple Jordan for Love. With that said, while I think it's fair to feel disappointment right now if they didn't draft your guy, that doesn't mean they won't end up being the right guys. Right now we should be in the "what will the team look like" mode, and get some anticipation going for the upcoming season.

Sure. You might be right. And I've fully admitted I'm no draft expert. And since I know the usual draft odds of hitting on picks... I'll be happy if any of them turn out to be a solid starter.

But I do have a certain type of player I like to watch. And none of the guys the Wolves picked are the type of NBA players I'm attracted to.

And... Vecenie and Hollinger are also guys who get paid to do this stuff. So I wouldn't dismiss their takes as much as most of us yahoos on here.

Abe, change your face.

And FWIW, Jaden McDaniels was #1 on Jay Bilas' big board when the Wolves picked him.

The raw numbers: 13.0 points, 5.8 rebounds, 2.1 assists and 3.2 turnovers per game, 3.3 fouls per game... with 40.5 percent shooting overall and 33.9 percent efficiency from 3-point range.

6 technical fouls.

Benched from a team that was 5 - 17 in the Pac 10.

Some people see the rankings and the athleticism and the high school rankings... I see production. I see guys who know HOW to play.

Some people see the promise... I see enigmas who we have to "hope" decide to work their hardest while earning millions.
-----

Remember, there's a very real reason Rashad McCants is my all-time LEAST favorite NBA player. And there are reasons why I never liked Wiggins.

Heh. Wait until you read about his history off the court. He's not a likable kid either.

Like I always say, this team overvalues character. How much of Jarrett Culver's character did you enjoy when he was clanking 60% of his free throws? Rubio is a great guy. Didn't stop you guys from whining about his acquisition tonight. This is an unlikable organization, but you still root for them.

Just don't watch them with emotional attachment. Just wait and see from afar. If you allow this team to keep angering you, it's your fault.

It's part of being a fan. You WANT to have reasons to root for players. Especially when it's literally the worst winning team in NBA history.

And I disagree about the Wolves overvaluing character. From McCants to Ricky Davis to Eddie Griffin to Beasley to Beasley... et al.

The Wolves have had plenty of knuckleheads. The problem has been that they've been knuckleheads who also have played lousy basketball.

Lip, I'm going to address your concerns with an alternative spin.

- Edwards was a top 3 pick in this draft no matter which teams were picking in the top 3, and positionally was the easiest fit with the current roster's top players. (again, not saying he was my selection either, but it's not like the pick was out of nowhere, and was #2 on Camden's big board the other day, so as disappointed as he was, the Wolves picked the #2 guy on his board, whom I know you respect the opinion of).

- I also shared your enthusiasm for Derrick Williams (I actually was hoping the Wolves would trade up for Kyrie that year when the Cavs suggested they'd be open to it).

- Although I share your concern about Edwards favorite sport actually being football, there was another NBA player who was pretty good that also seemed to like another sport at least as much, his name was Michael Jordan.

- I think Culver was the backup plan last year, but Culver did really turn it on as he gained confidence last year. He started out lost, and by the end of the shortened season, he was hitting 3's at a high clip if I recall, and defending at a solid level. Jury has to be still out on this kid.

- I'm going to fully disagree with you on Flynn. He sucked before, during, and after his injury. You, or anyone else, can point to an inflated stats line all you want, but he was pretty terrible. The reason he had some stats was because he dribbled the ball 90% of the time when the Wolves were on the offense. The last time he was effective in any positive way, he played in orange, a color that hasn't paid off for the Wolves (see Wes Johnson).

- I'm also a bit confused as to why you're suggesting Edwards is a poor shooter. That's not a knock on him, it's his shot selection that is in question. As a pure shooter, that shouldn't be a concern.