Minnesota Sports Forum

I cant see anything from Ant's rookie year to make me think the guy isnt a competitor. The court is all that matters to me. There have been lots of athletes that have been funny in interviews. Plus all of Ants jokes are about what a great athlete he is. Im pretty sure competitiveness and confidence are his dominant personality traits.

thedoper wrote:I cant see anything from Ant's rookie year to make me think the guy isnt a competitor. The court is all that matters to me. There have been lots of athletes that have been funny in interviews. Plus all of Ants jokes are about what a great athlete he is. Im pretty sure competitiveness and confidence are his dominant personality traits.

To be fair, his lack of effort defensively (highlighted on this board) could negate some of the "but he's super duper competitive" opinions.

We simply don't know yet. But I think all of us are hoping he can (1) be a star player (2) who cares about winning (3) and plays hard (4) in Minnesota.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

thedoper wrote:I cant see anything from Ant's rookie year to make me think the guy isnt a competitor. The court is all that matters to me. There have been lots of athletes that have been funny in interviews. Plus all of Ants jokes are about what a great athlete he is. Im pretty sure competitiveness and confidence are his dominant personality traits.

To be fair, his lack of effort defensively (highlighted on this board) could negate some of the "but he's super duper competitive" opinions.

We simply don't know yet. But I think all of us are hoping he can (1) be a star player (2) who cares about winning (3) and plays hard (4) in Minnesota.

Exactly. If these guys were real competitors, we'd see them busting their asses on defense. All of "the greats" knew how to buckle down on that side of the ball and all of the current stars with rings on their fingers (LeBron, Kawhi, even Durant and Curry) know how important it is to get stops. I haven't seen that yet from any of our top 3, including Ant. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt since he was just a young rookie, but it's defense that one's true mettle shows.

Playing well defensively is more than just effort or competitiveness. It's also IQ and awareness. I think you can also be highly competitive, but still fail to fully commit to the defensive end. Some highly competitive players seem to compartmentalize the two ends of the floor in their minds and sort of write off the defensive side of the ball.

My sense of KAT's defensive struggles is that they have resulted from a lack of defensive IQ and awareness, not lack of effort or competitiveness. In contrast, I think DLO's historically poor defense has largely reflected a lack of competitive zeal. It shows up with him on both ends of the floor, including the many times he gets lackadaisical with the ball. But it shows up more as a lack of effort or commitment to the defensive side of the ball. My sense of Edwards is that he's highly competitive, but hasn't yet accepted the importance of defense. In other words, he seems to have channeled his competitive nature into the offensive end and sort of compartmentalized the defensive end as something less important. I see KAT continuing to improve defensively as his awareness and IQ develop because he seems to have a strong competitive drive. I think it's critical to coach Edwards hard and push him to channel his competitive zeal towards the defensive end of the floor. That has to be a priority for Finch and Turner and I'm thinking that Beverley can help in that regard. Beverley pure joy in harassing and stopping opponents seems like something that will rub off on Edwards. And I hope that Beverly gets on Edwards if and when he's not putting forth the effort. I'm not sure what to think of DLO's prospects. I'm still hoping he becomes someone he doesn't appear to be. I remember DLO showing great defensive effort at the end of the win at Miami near the end of the 2019-20 season. You might remember he blocked what would have been a winning shot by Butler under the basket. So I still see hope for DLO as well.

lipoli390 wrote:Playing well defensively is more than just effort or competitiveness. It's also IQ and awareness. I think you can also be highly competitive, but still fail to fully commit to the defensive end. Some highly competitive players seem to compartmentalize the two ends of the floor in their minds and sort of write off the defensive side of the ball.

My sense of KAT's defensive struggles is that they have resulted from a lack of defensive IQ and awareness, not lack of effort or competitiveness. In contrast, I think DLO's historically poor defense has largely reflected a lack of competitive zeal. It shows up with him on both ends of the floor, including the many times he gets lackadaisical with the ball. But it shows up more as a lack of effort or commitment to the defensive side of the ball. My sense of Edwards is that he's highly competitive, but hasn't yet accepted the importance of defense. In other words, he seems to have channeled his competitive nature into the offensive end and sort of compartmentalized the defensive end as something less important. I see KAT continuing to improve defensively as his awareness and IQ develop because he seems to have a strong competitive drive. I think it's critical to coach Edwards hard and push him to channel his competitive zeal towards the defensive end of the floor. That has to be a priority for Finch and Turner and I'm thinking that Beverley can help in that regard. Beverley pure joy in harassing and stopping opponents seems like something that will rub off on Edwards. And I hope that Beverly gets on Edwards if and when he's not putting forth the effort. I'm not sure what to think of DLO's prospects. I'm still hoping he becomes someone he doesn't appear to be. I remember DLO showing great defensive effort at the end of the win at Miami near the end of the 2019-20 season. You might remember he blocked what would have been a winning shot by Butler under the basket. So I still see hope for DLO as well.

This doesn't mean being bad at defense is or should be excised but as Lip alludes to here some guys do seem to be talented defensively. KG was a supremely talented fed defensive player. Sure he played his ass off and had some extraordinary physical gifts but it's pretty clear he had something special that most players don't have.

If you want to hear someone talk about competitiveness go ahead and watch/listen to the recent Metta World Peace interview I posted a couple days ago there is a ton of interesting stuff in there. At one point Shannon Sharpe asked him if he was in his prime again and he could be on any team in the NBA right now who would it be. MWP said he wouldn't be joining any top players he would want to beat all those guys. Lol

Perhaps I see things a bit differently. I'd describe the Wolves' star players as follows:

Karl-Anthony Towns: competitive, immature, emotional

D'Angelo Russell: competitive, confident, lackadaisical

Anthony Edwards: competitive, cocky, inefficient

I see all three being competitive and ultra-talented to boot. They've shown more than enough individually to deserve that. But they each have their own flaws that hinder their games at this point. Towns lets his own emotions check himself out of the game mentally. Russell can be careless with the ball and less than determined defensively. Edwards has all the physical tools of a superstar, but hasn't used them to their maximum abilities yet.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

thedoper wrote:I cant see anything from Ant's rookie year to make me think the guy isnt a competitor. The court is all that matters to me. There have been lots of athletes that have been funny in interviews. Plus all of Ants jokes are about what a great athlete he is. Im pretty sure competitiveness and confidence are his dominant personality traits.

To be fair, his lack of effort defensively (highlighted on this board) could negate some of the "but he's super duper competitive" opinions.

We simply don't know yet. But I think all of us are hoping he can (1) be a star player (2) who cares about winning (3) and plays hard (4) in Minnesota.

I dont think its unfair to say he sucked a defense at times. I personally think its really hard to know your spots in NBA defenses. He also made lots of competitive plays on D out of sheer athleticism last year. Im with Cam in saying he hasnt realized his gifts. He may never and this is the wolves. But I dont think being bad at NBA D as a rookie inherently means a lack of competitive nature.

I'm going to change my prediction on where Simmons ends up. I no longer think he will be traded to the Wolves. The Wolves are not going to trade KAT or Ant for him. So the key becomes DLO. And let's be honest, Morey is too smart to accept a deal based around Russell, and Rosas is too dumb to consider offering those deals. And I'm 100% certain the Wolves don't have enough other assets to get Morey to agree to a deal. I could see Morey holding on to Simmons, waiting until something goes wrong in DC or Portland. Or maybe some other star becomes available after the season begins to take shape. He's just not going to make his team weaker when they are ready to win right now. The only way we are getting Simmons is if we put Ant on the table. I would seriously consider it, but I doubt Rosas would.

Cleveland makes some sense, as do Toronto, Sacramento, OKC, and some others. They all can make better offers than we can. But I think this will play out for quite a while yet. The mistake people are making is not accounting for the resolve of Morey.

CoolBreeze44 wrote:I'm going to change my prediction on where Simmons ends up. I no longer think he will be traded to the Wolves. The Wolves are not going to trade KAT or Ant for him. So the key becomes DLO. And let's be honest, Morey is too smart to accept a deal based around Russell, and Rosas is too dumb to consider offering those deals. And I'm 100% certain the Wolves don't have enough other assets to get Morey to agree to a deal. I could see Morey holding on to Simmons, waiting until something goes wrong in DC or Portland. Or maybe some other star becomes available after the season begins to take shape. He's just not going to make his team weaker when they are ready to win right now. The only way we are getting Simmons is if we put Ant on the table. I would seriously consider it, but I doubt Rosas would.

Cleveland makes some sense, as do Toronto, Sacramento, OKC, and some others. They all can make better offers than we can. But I think this will play out for quite a while yet. The mistake people are making is not accounting for the resolve of Morey.

What's the best package Rosas could offer for Simmons without giving up KAT or Edwards and without completely gutting the team's perimeter scoring, which the team would with the shot-challenged Simmons? I think the best package would be Russell, McDaniels and multiple 1st-round picks. Now, let's compare that package with what I would consider realistic offers from the other teams you mentioned and one other:

1. Toronto: VanVleet & Anunoby + multiple 1st-round picks. (Seems better than the DLO package)

2. Sacramento: Haliburton & Hield + multiple 1st-round picks (Closer, but I still think it's better than the DLO package)

3. OKC: Lots of 1st-round picks (most of them protected) + some marginal players. (The DLO package seems a lot better for Philly than anything OKC can offer. I don't think OKC is a serious contender for Simmons)

4. Cleveland: Sexton, Ricky & Okoro + a couple future 1st-round picks (This seems better than the DLO package)

That's the long way of saying that I agree with you, Cool. :)

Camden wrote:Perhaps I see things a bit differently. I'd describe the Wolves' star players as follows:

Karl-Anthony Towns: competitive, immature, emotional

D'Angelo Russell: competitive, confident, lackadaisical

Anthony Edwards: competitive, cocky, inefficient

I see all three being competitive and ultra-talented to boot. They've shown more than enough individually to deserve that. But they each have their own flaws that hinder their games at this point. Towns lets his own emotions check himself out of the game mentally. Russell can be careless with the ball and less than determined defensively. Edwards has all the physical tools of a superstar, but hasn't used them to their maximum abilities yet.

I'm not sure what your bar for "competitive" is, but the fact all of these guys worked hard enough to now be part of the .0001% playing in the NBA, then sure, they're competitive compared to your average YMCA schmuck like our good friend Abe here.

But I define it relative to their peer group, i.e., other NBA players. And I sure as hell don't think DLO is competitive by that standard. Skilled? Absolutely. Competitive? Nope. Ant is TBD on competitiveness IMO. KAT is competitive, but yes, immature and emotional. So I think you definitely nailed KAT.