Minnesota Sports Forum

thedoper wrote:Is Dantoni and Paul the whiniest coach/player duo in NBA history? Everyone is bad now but those two are so over the top.

Agreed, although I'd say the Old Doc Rivers - Blake Griffin combo was worse.

Horford and gasol just lock things up on the defensive end.

Marc was really good on embiid.

crazy-canuck wrote:Horford and gasol just lock things up on the defensive end.

Marc was really good on embiid.

Yeah so much of good D from bigs is in the mind rather than the pure physical attributes. Horford and Gasol come across as slower and more plotting but are super effective with positioning and timing. Hope KAT is paying attention.

thedoper wrote:

crazy-canuck wrote:Horford and gasol just lock things up on the defensive end.

Marc was really good on embiid.

Yeah so much of good D from bigs is in the mind rather than the pure physical attributes. Horford and Gasol come across as slower and more plotting but are super effective with positioning and timing. Hope KAT is paying attention.

Don't get those hopes too high Wolves fan

thedoper wrote:

crazy-canuck wrote:Horford and gasol just lock things up on the defensive end.

Marc was really good on embiid.

Yeah so much of good D from bigs is in the mind rather than the pure physical attributes. Horford and Gasol come across as slower and more plotting but are super effective with positioning and timing. Hope KAT is paying attention.

Kat and dieng have similar issues on that end. They both chase blocks and rebounds at the expense of positioning. I think thats one of the major reasons denver can get away with jokic in the paint; he just stands his ground. Jokic wont anchor your defense, but he doesnt kill you either. KAT/Dieng also seem to be unsure of where to be/help most of the time. Imo, seems like mostly a coaching issue of just not knowing 100% for what to do. I think also might have to do with a carousel of coaches that minny likes to burn through. Having great perimeter defenders will help, but I dont think it will fix our defensive woes.

crazy-canuck wrote:

thedoper wrote:

crazy-canuck wrote:Horford and gasol just lock things up on the defensive end.

Marc was really good on embiid.

Yeah so much of good D from bigs is in the mind rather than the pure physical attributes. Horford and Gasol come across as slower and more plotting but are super effective with positioning and timing. Hope KAT is paying attention.

Kat and dieng have similar issues on that end. They both chase blocks and rebounds at the expense of positioning. I think thats one of the major reasons denver can get away with jokic in the paint; he just stands his ground. Jokic wont anchor your defense, but he doesnt kill you either. KAT/Dieng also seem to be unsure of where to be/help most of the time. Imo, seems like mostly a coaching issue of just not knowing 100% for what to do. I think also might have to do with a carousel of coaches that minny likes to burn through. Having great perimeter defenders will help, but I dont think it will fix our defensive woes.

This conversation about playing smart defense reminds me more of Saric than it does of Towns.

crazy-canuck wrote:

thedoper wrote:

crazy-canuck wrote:Horford and gasol just lock things up on the defensive end.

Marc was really good on embiid.

Yeah so much of good D from bigs is in the mind rather than the pure physical attributes. Horford and Gasol come across as slower and more plotting but are super effective with positioning and timing. Hope KAT is paying attention.

Kat and dieng have similar issues on that end. They both chase blocks and rebounds at the expense of positioning. I think thats one of the major reasons denver can get away with jokic in the paint; he just stands his ground. Jokic wont anchor your defense, but he doesnt kill you either. KAT/Dieng also seem to be unsure of where to be/help most of the time. Imo, seems like mostly a coaching issue of just not knowing 100% for what to do. I think also might have to do with a carousel of coaches that minny likes to burn through. Having great perimeter defenders will help, but I dont think it will fix our defensive woes.

Yup, something I've been harping on for years. Guys like Horford and and Gasol almost never leave their feet and they jostle you just enough to make things uncomfortable, but without fouling. The other thing those two have is a really strong base, something Dieng has never had and KAT seems to struggle with too. They just don't move much if you put a shoulder into them, whereas Dieng is on the ground or taken out of the play. KAT has skinny-leg syndrome as well.

Q12543 wrote:

crazy-canuck wrote:

thedoper wrote:

crazy-canuck wrote:Horford and gasol just lock things up on the defensive end.

Marc was really good on embiid.

Yeah so much of good D from bigs is in the mind rather than the pure physical attributes. Horford and Gasol come across as slower and more plotting but are super effective with positioning and timing. Hope KAT is paying attention.

Kat and dieng have similar issues on that end. They both chase blocks and rebounds at the expense of positioning. I think thats one of the major reasons denver can get away with jokic in the paint; he just stands his ground. Jokic wont anchor your defense, but he doesnt kill you either. KAT/Dieng also seem to be unsure of where to be/help most of the time. Imo, seems like mostly a coaching issue of just not knowing 100% for what to do. I think also might have to do with a carousel of coaches that minny likes to burn through. Having great perimeter defenders will help, but I dont think it will fix our defensive woes.

Yup, something I've been harping on for years. Guys like Horford and and Gasol almost never leave their feet and they jostle you just enough to make things uncomfortable, but without fouling. The other thing those two have is a really strong base, something Dieng has never had and KAT seems to struggle with too. They just don't move much if you put a shoulder into them, whereas Dieng is on the ground or taken out of the play. KAT has skinny-leg syndrome as well.

I agree that both, especially Dieng, appear to lack a strong base needed to hold their ground down low. But I do like Dieng's fearlessness and toughness. Since Rubio left, he's the only player on this roster (except maybe Covington and Okogie) who will step in and take a charge. Towns has improved defensively this past season, but I don't know how much better he can get unless his gets stronger.

The KAT/Dieng defensive issue gets right back to the PBO issue. Thibodeau said he studied the Wolves on film and live for a year before taking the job here. Then he had a full training camp with the Wolves. Yet, he then gave Gorgui a big, long-term contract after plenty of opportunity to see and study the abilities of KAT and Dieng. Our next PBO needs to be able to quickly identify the strengths and weaknesses of the roster and understand how to build a team with the right blend of players.

Can with Wolves be a contender with KAT and Gorgui paired together? I don't know. Apparently Thibs initially thought so before changing his mind and signing Taj. Or how about KAT and Saric? I don't know either. It probably depends in part on the quality of our perimeter defenders. Some of it depends on how much offense we can get consistently out of either Dieng or Saric. Some of it depends on the quality of the head coach. And much of it depends on the kind of team the organization wants to have on the floor. Will it be a high octane offensive team or a more defensive-oriented team? It will be interesting to see who the Wolves hire as their new PBO and then see what that new person does with the roster.

I'm just gonna say it -- I don't want a big man who tries to take charges. Leave that for the guards and pesky forwards. I want a big man that will stand tall, stay on his feet and wall up against the offensive player(s). Dieng has NEVER been that player and Towns is inconsistent in this area.

Camden wrote:I'm just gonna say it -- I don't want a big man who tries to take charges. Leave that for the guards and pesky forwards. I want a big man that will stand tall, stay on his feet and wall up against the offensive player(s). Dieng has NEVER been that player and Towns is inconsistent in this area.

I agree with you, Cam. But Gorgui doesn't have the lower body strength to wall up in that way. My point was that he at least stands in and takes charges. He'll also block some shots. That's getting the most out of what he has. Ideally, I'd like to have a big who defends down low in the way you described. Unfortunately, that's not Gorgui or Saric and never will be. KAT has improved and will probably improve some more, but tough interior defense in the way you described will never be his strength. And as much as we all love Taj, he's not particularly good defensively down low either.

So I'd like to see us get the kind of big you described to pair with KAT. But I don't know who that could be. I'd also like to have some perimeter players who can stay in front of the guy they're guarding for more than a millisecond and who will do what Gorgui does -- i.e, step in and take a charge.