Minnesota Sports Forum

Is Thibs trying to get fired with this continued insubordination?

Things to keep in mind when we are making trades is that we only have 1 open roster spot. So we can do 2 for 1 trades or 3 for 2. But Tolliver, Deng, Nummley, Rose are ineligible to be traded also.

I wouldn't get too caught up in rumors of offers. Say what you will about Thibs, but this organization doesn't leak information. Everything we hear in the media will likely be skewed to the other teams POV.

sjm34 wrote:I wouldn't get too caught up in rumors of offers. Say what you will about Thibs, but this organization doesn't leak information. Everything we hear in the media will likely be skewed to the other teams POV.

Fair point. It's one thing Thibs is good at - not telling anyone anything. Unfortunately that extends to his players and front office colleagues.

Q12543 wrote:

sjm34 wrote:I wouldn't get too caught up in rumors of offers. Say what you will about Thibs, but this organization doesn't leak information. Everything we hear in the media will likely be skewed to the other teams POV.

Fair point. It's one thing Thibs is good at - not telling anyone anything. Unfortunately that extends to his players and front office colleagues.

Lol. Good one, Q. I'm not worried about Tibs leaking. I'm just worried about his judgment and decision-making. I would bet the Nets have offered Russell as part of a package fir Butler. Why wouldn't they? As for who leaked word of the Nets' offer, who knows. I just don't want the Wolves to accept it.

lipoli390 wrote:If the Nets are offering D'Angelo Russell as part of the package for Butler, I sure hope the Wolves say no. Even if he's matured beyond the lockerroom cancer he used to be, the arguments against trading for him are compelling:

1. Only 1 year left on his rookie deal, so he could turn out to be nothing more than a 1-year rental

2. He can't stay healthy. Last season he played in only 48 games while the previous season he played in only 63 games. That's a HUGE red flag for a guy in his early 20s.

3. He's not a good player. Perhaps I should have put this at the top. This guy just isn't good. He's a poor shooter as evidenced by his 41.4% FG and 32.4% 3-point shooting last season. He's not much of a playmaker, garnering 5.2 assists last season. And he's a poor defender.

If this report helps generate a better offer from some other team then fine. But because of who is running our front office, I'm concerned that a deal like this could happen.

I personally have interest in Russell despite the flaws and Saying that I think it's absolutely a gamble if we add him. You have to get something else worthwhile with him in a package. You laid out the stats and why there is some problems with him but it's worth noting that he averaged those 5.2 assists in less than 28mpg although with a high turnover rate and a high usage rate as well. The other problem is how much are we going to have to pay him next year? If for some reason he absolutely blows up and looks like a legit core piece...(not expecting that) great but there are a lot of scenarios of how much of a success (or failure) he has for how much he gets paid (or lose him for nothing) in between including another season where he misses like 20 games or more. Do you take a gamble on a guy like that or do you go with something safe? Ideally in a Nets deal you get some of both plus a future pick. I'm not suggesting this is my top option butim just admitting some intruige and also that it might be wildly misplaced and I'd rather having something I felt better about. One thing we can agree on Russell is likely available. :)

Here's an excerpt from Woj's latest espn report, released a few hours ago:

"Thibodeau and general manager Scott Layden, who is the point man for trade conversations, continue to leave rival executives and owners unclear about both the specific players and broader kinds of assets that the Wolves value in a deal, sources said. Even more doubt exists about whether there is even yet alignment between Taylor and Thibodeau on a structure and timetable for a deal, league sources told ESPN.

From starting the week insisting to other teams that Minnesota wouldn't trade Butler to slow-playing return phone calls and failing to share guidelines for the kind of deal that Minnesota wants to execute, Layden has graduated to the next phase of negotiations with teams: Asking for stars, starters, draft picks and salary-cap relief for the chance to acquire Butler, league sources said.

Thibodeau told reporters on Monday that, "We're not going to make a bad deal," and there is a belief among interested teams that Thibodeau is reluctant to bring strong offers to his owner for examination because he is still holding out hope to get Butler on the floor for Minnesota this season.

Thibodeau understands that the Wolves won't receive close to comparable talent back for Butler and that he could miss the playoffs for the second time in three years and lose his job."


Quite an article, but sadly not surprising at this point. The bolded phrases are the most troubling in a generally troubling but all too familiar drama playing out in the Wolves organization. Woj is a very reliable, accurate reporter. But even if this latest report from Woj is totally false, the case for firing Thibodeau is already overwhelming. Fact is, Thibodeau should have been fired the minute Butler demanded to be traded. It's crystal clear that Butler's discontent had been brewing for months and it's equally clear that Thibodeau knew or should have known about it. Thibodeau's brazen insubordination is just an exclamation point on the entire drama. I don't know what Glen is waiting for, but every day he delays firing Thibodeau is an insult to every Wolves fan and season ticket holder.

Jon k reported that the wolves were looking for a starting wing + rotation guy+ a 1st round pick.

Im not thibs' biggest fan, but i think some of these leaks are from opposing teams looking to lowball or from jimmys agent trying to dictate location.

crazy-canuck wrote:Jon k reported that the wolves were looking for a starting wing + rotation guy+ a 1st round pick.

Im not thibs' biggest fan, but i think some of these leaks are from opposing teams looking to lowball or from jimmys agent trying to dictate location.

I don't know where the leaks are coming from. But we've seen enough of Thibodeau over time to know the reports are probably true. Then again, even if the reports of insubordination are entirely untrue, Thibodeau should have been fired for allowing the drama to develop right under his nose in what has to be one of the most extraordinary examples of denial I've ever seen. He's a failed PBO and a mediocre head coach.

The deal parameters reported by Jon K provide additional cause to terminate Thibodeau and Layden. This is no time to establish rigid parameters like that for a deal. Instead, the Wolves approach should be fluid and flexible, focused on getting the best overall value in return with emphasis on getting younger talent and/or picks who can grow and develop with our 22/23 year old core. Maybe it's a starting wing, or maybe it's a starting stretch PF like Saric. Maybe it's a shot-blocking center or a young talented PG like Sexton. It should be all about the maximum long-term improvement to the team. One of the big problems with Thibodeau as PBO has always been his one-dimensional, pedestrian way of thinking. The deal parameters reported by Jon K are in line with what I'd expect from Thibodeau and it's unfortunate.

A couple things I've been considering today:

1. Something in all these reports doesn't seem quite right. Note this is the Thibs and Layden era where very little leaks out from their side. It's worth considering where these reports are coming from...not the Wolves. That is worth considering. I'm certainly not suggesting verything is fine or good or Thins and Layden and Glen are all doing great hanging out and doing Yoga together while working thephones but something just seems off. I have some homeristic hope that somehow something magical happens and things turn around here with Thibs still coaching. I'm not really bettting on it or really hoping for it except I'm sort of an optimistic person about things.

2. We are all smart people here and come from various walks of life with various legit forms of expertise or just solid sense. However I think sometimes we overestimate our knowledge of situations surrounding how these deals come together. I'm guilty as anyone. Shams says "these trades for star players take weeks to get worked out.." weeks? What?!? I mean I get it but I honestly don't. That being said I have to realize Shams does know more about this than I do. That doesn't mean my outside perspective or opinion or anyone Kara here doesn't have value. I all can agree that sometimes people's different perspectives (including fans like us somewhat outside the situation) can enlighten the conversation.

I guess what I am saying is maybe we should be asking more questions about what we don't know and in some cases maybe be careful about getting caught up in every report (mostly rumored trades although it's kinda fun). I'm saying this to myself as much as anyone.

Also one last thing people keep saying Thibs is doing things to save his job. You know how he can save his job? Make a great trade both for now and the future which could be enough to make this team pretty good and get into the playoffs and do a lot of the things we have been hoping for. There is a chance he can do just that. Again I'm not betting on this but the trade a lot of people want is exactly how Thibs could save his job.