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Re: KAT
Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 7:46 am
by Camden [enjin:6601484]
We definitely need Patton and/or this upcoming draft pick to become really good players. This is even more important with the signs that Wiggins is not going to be a star player in this league.
Re: KAT
Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 8:40 am
by Lipoli390
Mikkeman wrote:I think Wolves current situation looks pretty similar to 2013-14 Golden State. Golden State had just 'sacrifaced' their future by trading two first round picks for 29 year old Iggy and despite that trade they did improve only 4 games with Iggy playing only 63 games and having his lowest scoring average since his rookie season. At least Butler was still all star level player with Wolves and helped Wolves to get pla
I'm pretty sure nobody expected Golden State to make dramatic improvement for next season and many were questioning move that they had made for Iggy.
If Wolves youngsters will make similar improvement than Golden State players made next season, trade for Butler will look just great like even Iggy trade looked afterwards. If KAT will be MVP or at least bona fide MVP candidate like Curry was 2014-15, Wiggins one of the most efficient two way shooting guards like Thompson was and Tyus Jones surprise us by becoming upgrade compared to Teague as starter, like Green did, Wolves can make similar improvement than Warriors did. Of course it is not probable that above happens but if it would, our management and their moves would look just as brilliant as Golden State management looked.
I don't agree that the situation looks similar. The Warriors 47-win season in 2012-13 was propelled by their two young budding stars in their early 20s, Curry and Thompson -- mainly Curry. The Wolves 47-win season was propelled primarily by the soon-to-be 29 year old Butler and 33-year old Gibson in addition to our young budding star, KAT.
However, you make a good point about how things could turn out well if KAT, Wiggins and Tyus develop and reach what many believe to be their full potential. But those are some pretty big "ifs" there. Further, Butler's about to command a veteran max deal and would never accept a complementary role like Iggy's. In addition, we have cap issues the Warriors did not have back then and we don't have the young assets like Barnes, Ezeli. So I just don't see many good parallels between the Wolves situation today and the Warriors back then.
Re: KAT
Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 8:48 am
by AbeVigodaLive
monsterpile wrote:lipoli390 wrote:kekgeek1 wrote:
.
Also drafting Harrison Barnes, Ezeli and adding a solid vets Like Carl Landry and Jarrett Jack certainly didn't hurt things either. Ironically Bogut played the same amount of games as
Ellis played the previous year. What we now know is that in a number of ways it was an addition by subtraction and Jerry west is a freaking genius.
This was an important moment in the Golden State championship journey.
Monta Ellis was not a bad player (22/3/6) that season... (24/4/6) the previous season. But he was a really bad fit next to Curry. The team had to decide which guy to run with. Obviously, they chose correctly, but it wasn't exactly a slam dunk at the time and the Bogut trade was considered a toss-up, too. Part of the "addition by subtraction" piece was that Golden State had a bigger SG and infinitely better shooter (Curry complement) in Klay Thompson ready and waiting for a bigger role.
So not only did the move put the ball in Curry's hands... it put Klay Thompson on the court.
[Note: By the way, the 23-win Warriors season was in the Lockout season (66 games).]
Re: KAT
Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 6:05 pm
by Lipoli390
AbeVigodaLive wrote:monsterpile wrote:lipoli390 wrote:kekgeek1 wrote:
.
Also drafting Harrison Barnes, Ezeli and adding a solid vets Like Carl Landry and Jarrett Jack certainly didn't hurt things either. Ironically Bogut played the same amount of games as
Ellis played the previous year. What we now know is that in a number of ways it was an addition by subtraction and Jerry west is a freaking genius.
This was an important moment in the Golden State championship journey.
Monta Ellis was not a bad player (22/3/6) that season... (24/4/6) the previous season. But he was a really bad fit next to Curry. The team had to decide which guy to run with. Obviously, they chose correctly, but it wasn't exactly a slam dunk at the time and the Bogut trade was considered a toss-up, too. Part of the "addition by subtraction" piece was that Golden State had a bigger SG and infinitely better shooter (Curry complement) in Klay Thompson ready and waiting for a bigger role.
So not only did the move put the ball in Curry's hands... it put Klay Thompson on the court.
[Note: By the way, the 23-win Warriors season was in the Lockout season (66 games).]
Good remainder that those 23 wins were in a lockout season, so that season wasn't quite as bad as it otherwise looks. Anyway, when you cut through the fog, it's clear that the bulk of the improvement the following season was due to having Curry for a full season, Thompson with a year of NBA experience under his belt and giving them both more touches by trading Ellis. Adding Landry was perhaps analogous to the Wolves adding Gibson this past season. But otherwise, the Warriors improvement from 23 to 47 wins isn't really comparable to the Wolves improvement last season. Two very different paths to a similar level of improvement.
Re: KAT
Posted: Tue May 22, 2018 12:38 pm
by WildWolf2813
kekgeek1 wrote:I think we should all remember even the great Warriors were not built in a day. I mean they won 23 games (where there fans were booing their own off the court) then they went out and added an All NBA center the next year in Bogut. They won 47 games (the same as the wolves this year), now this was without Draymond Green being nothing at as a rookie. But they started the winning culture, they went on to add Iggy via trade getting rid of all their bad contracts to obtain him. They took a mini step and won 51 games and lost in the 1st round of the playoffs. Then they took off and they fired Jackson and hired Kerr. They added Speights, Livingston and Barbosa for a combined 10 million.
They developed a winning culture 1st, they had nothing from Draymond in his 1st year and played 20 minutes in the 2nd year. Players developed internally while adding above average vet talent. They also were able to add role players on the cheap.
In the end the Wolves need to have their young guys need to continue to develop from KAT to Amile Jefferson. Adding our vets helps with the winning culture and should give the Wolves guys experiences on what they need to work on. Maybe Thibs is the Mark Jackson in this situation, but I would rather be in the situation we are in now where players are learning how to win than hoping 5 other young guys figure out how to win in the waste land of lottery pick after lottery pick.
They also sold the team to an owner who gave a damn.
Re: KAT
Posted: Tue May 22, 2018 12:46 pm
by WildWolf2813
CoolBreeze44 wrote:Yes, is it worth maintaining a winning culture if you never get out of the first round? It's not for me. I would always be maneuvering with championship contention as the goal.
Given this franchise it seems like the only two choices are: lose with frightening consistency or make the playoffs and lose in the first round.
Re: KAT
Posted: Wed May 23, 2018 10:43 am
by kurrdog53 [enjin:7013678]
No one is mentioning the role the 3pt shot is playing for GSW, Houston and to a lesser degree, Boston and Cleveland. Kawai Leonard would not fix that, Butler doesnt fix that, Wiggins doesnt help. If this team goes another direction (would have to be without Thibs) there would have to be a new emphasis on the 3pt shot. KAT and Butler could work in an offense together with some good shooters.
The only way we can do this with Thibs and company is to trade Wiggs (even at 80 cents on the dollar) for shooters. Would we be interested in sending Teague/Gorgui/Wiggs to Portland for McCollum/Turner or some sort?
Re: KAT
Posted: Wed May 23, 2018 2:01 pm
by TAFKASP
I'd trade KAT and throw in the entire Wild organization in exchange for the Golden Knights organization! Who's with me here?
Re: KAT
Posted: Thu May 24, 2018 5:45 pm
by TAFKASP
^^^^^^
So I take it nobody is with me here. :-o
Re: KAT
Posted: Thu May 24, 2018 7:49 pm
by Coolbreeze44
TheSP wrote:^^^^^^
So I take it nobody is with me here. :-o
Do we get all their draft picks too?