Minnesota Sports Forum

I agree. The Prosas is clearly broken if they are not even reaching out to talk to him. Incredibly inept front office work.

Hicks123 wrote:

SameOldNudityDrew wrote:

Q12543 wrote:Don't forget that some of the existing stars today were at one point in time considered just "solid" prospects without a ton of upside - Kawhi Leonard, Jimmy Butler, Kyle Lowry to name a few.

Sure, but there are lots of guys who were considered solid prospects who busted too. Gotta go by what we know about these guys and pray for some luck. I like Haliburton a lot. I'd love him on our team. But it's fair to question what his ceiling is given his physical profile and lack of any truly elite skillsI like Haliburton a lot. I'd love him on our team. But it's fair to question what his ceiling is given his physical profile and lack of any truly elite skills, as much as we all love his intangibles, character, and two-way game. He'd be a great fit as a defender who can shoot and playmake too.

Bold section above is just flat out wrong! No elite skill?

Shot greater than 50% as a guard both college seasons (more than 1/2 shots are 3's) = ELITE
Shot greater than 40% from 3 both college seasons = ELITE (especially when you watch highlights, and many of these shots are easy NBA range)
Nearly 6 Rebounds per game.....from a PG = ELITE
2.5 Steals per game = ELITE
Playmaking ability = ELITE

The absolute ONLY thing not elite for this guy is his perceived athletic ceiling. And I will state, this is why he is not in running for #1 in this draft. If he had Ja Morants athleticism, he would be FAR AND AWAY the best prospect in this draft. And yes, this certainly impacts his prospects to be elite in the NBA. I just find it a bit off to say he has no elite skill. His elite skillset is in fact why he is coveted despite his lack of explosiveness as an athlete.

Yo, yo, yo. You're arguing with a guy who loves Haliburton. We're on the same side here, dude.

I think the phrase "elite" gets used too much. We can quibble about whether to say he's very good or elite. His stats are excellent, but when you watch how he got them, you see elite intelligence and character, but his physical play itself is more scrappy and opportunistic (which is something I admire!). The bottom line for me is that Wiseman and Edwards have both shown flashes that, if they pan out (which is a huge "if" and one of the reasons I often lean toward trading down), make them look like perennial All-Stars.

Haliburton, in terms of his play on the court, reminds me more of a guy like Khris Middleton or a smaller Tayshaun Prince with much better passing. Now don't get me wrong. Theoretically, a guy like Middleton or Prince are often essential. They are what you could call complementary stars. Guys who can do a bit of everything and bring a ton of intangibles. Smart guys who know what it takes to win and are often very efficient as a result. They'd fit seamlessly on any team they were on and definitely impact winning, maybe even more than a decent number of guys otherwise considered stars. AK47 in his prime kind of provided that as well. Shawn Marion if he were a point guard. Nic Batum showed flashes of maybe becoming this kind of guy at one point. I don't mean to demean Haliburton by mentioning him with these guys. He's a great, all-around, efficient player. And these guys I mentioned are all great, great NBA players. Plus Haliburton's charisma alone could help guys like KAT and DLO become better, which is immensely valuable.

It's just that when I see what Edwards can do as a scorer at his size and what Wiseman can do with his athleticism at his size, it just reminds me much more of what you see from traditional stars. Yes Haliburton outplayed those guys statistically in college for sure. And yes, physicality and athleticism are about the only knocks you can put on the guy. But physicality and athleticism count for something. The NBA is full of incredibly big, quick, athletic guys. Much more than in college. Edwards and Wiseman will make that physical/athletic transition much more easily. The skills they flashed, Edwards' step-back and pull-up 3s, and Wiseman's vertical dominance and potentially his other skills, are just the sorts of highlight plays you see from stars. Their questions are elsewhere, and there are many of them. But I think it's fair to suggest that that gives them a higher ceiling than Haliburton, even though the odds of Haliburton panning out are much higher.

crazysauce wrote:https://twitter.com/DaneMooreNBA/status/1328416866843430913?s=19

This says here that we havent even talked to Wiseman. If this is true than Rosas needs to be fired immediately. There is no excuse not to do you due diligence with all the top prospects. Why would you not talk to him. It makes no sense. This is the reason our franchise is a laughing stock of the league next to the Knicks. This is unacceptable.

Here is a thought...what if all the people that have said that Wiseman's camp has not wanted him to go to MN is true? What if they have not engaged with MN and withheld his medical records etc? Do you REALLY believe the Wolves and Rosas who comes from an aggressive background working for Morey hasn't tried to do his homework on Wiseman? Which of these options seems more plausible? The quote from Wiseman was something like "Minnesota gave recommendations and stuff." That doesn't sound like a guy that's really making a case to be MN pick. He did say he is cool with whoever picks him but...yeah.

monsterpile wrote:

crazysauce wrote:https://twitter.com/DaneMooreNBA/status/1328416866843430913?s=19

This says here that we havent even talked to Wiseman. If this is true than Rosas needs to be fired immediately. There is no excuse not to do you due diligence with all the top prospects. Why would you not talk to him. It makes no sense. This is the reason our franchise is a laughing stock of the league next to the Knicks. This is unacceptable.

Here is a thought...what if all the people that have said that Wiseman's camp has not wanted him to go to MN is true? What if they have not engaged with MN and withheld his medical records etc? Do you REALLY believe the Wolves and Rosas who comes from an aggressive background working for Morey hasn't tried to do his homework on Wiseman? Which of these options seems more plausible? The quote from Wiseman was something like "Minnesota gave recommendations and stuff." That doesn't sound like a guy that's really making a case to be MN pick. He did say he is cool with whoever picks him but...yeah.

Um, nobody wants to come here. Take Wiseman for spite and then do a Webber-Penny trade.

Can someone explain to me why Okongwu is a fit here but Wiseman is not. I dont get it.

monsterpile wrote:

crazysauce wrote:https://twitter.com/DaneMooreNBA/status/1328416866843430913?s=19

This says here that we havent even talked to Wiseman. If this is true than Rosas needs to be fired immediately. There is no excuse not to do you due diligence with all the top prospects. Why would you not talk to him. It makes no sense. This is the reason our franchise is a laughing stock of the league next to the Knicks. This is unacceptable.

Here is a thought...what if all the people that have said that Wiseman's camp has not wanted him to go to MN is true? What if they have not engaged with MN and withheld his medical records etc? Do you REALLY believe the Wolves and Rosas who comes from an aggressive background working for Morey hasn't tried to do his homework on Wiseman? Which of these options seems more plausible? The quote from Wiseman was something like "Minnesota gave recommendations and stuff." That doesn't sound like a guy that's really making a case to be MN pick. He did say he is cool with whoever picks him but...yeah.

I'd still argue that it's Gersson Rosas' fault. Part of his job to make the franchise more attractive and appealing for players they're interested in. Either the front office just wasn't interested in James Wiseman from the start, which is egregious mismanagement, or they failed to pitch their vision with him involved to his camp. Not even a single meeting? That's absurd.

I agree Cam but this does sound like hes been dodging us. Doogie just said we wanted to meet with him but it never happened. I agree that Rosas needs to sell what the plan is here and make this a destination. I am starting to have a really bad feeling about this draft.

I could care less if Wiseman yells an expletive into the phone and hangs up on Rosas, it should have absolutely ZERO bearing on whether we take him or not. None. We're the only franchise that ever seems to get scared off by these kinds of strategies.

Having said that, based on all the smoke in this situation, including all of the actual professional draftnick mocks out there, it seems unlikely we'll take him first. And that's a shame.

Camden0916 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

crazysauce wrote:https://twitter.com/DaneMooreNBA/status/1328416866843430913?s=19

This says here that we havent even talked to Wiseman. If this is true than Rosas needs to be fired immediately. There is no excuse not to do you due diligence with all the top prospects. Why would you not talk to him. It makes no sense. This is the reason our franchise is a laughing stock of the league next to the Knicks. This is unacceptable.

Here is a thought...what if all the people that have said that Wiseman's camp has not wanted him to go to MN is true? What if they have not engaged with MN and withheld his medical records etc? Do you REALLY believe the Wolves and Rosas who comes from an aggressive background working for Morey hasn't tried to do his homework on Wiseman? Which of these options seems more plausible? The quote from Wiseman was something like "Minnesota gave recommendations and stuff." That doesn't sound like a guy that's really making a case to be MN pick. He did say he is cool with whoever picks him but...yeah.

I'd still argue that it's Gersson Rosas' fault. Part of his job to make the franchise more attractive and appealing for players they're interested in. Either the front office just wasn't interested in James Wiseman from the start, which is egregious mismanagement, or they failed to pitch their vision with him involved to his camp. Not even a single meeting? That's absurd.

You can try all you want, but we're asking Rosas to look like an absolute hypocrite so that he can draft a guy we want. It's hard to pitch an offense with 2 centers there when both sides know that's not what you want. It's hard to sell Wiseman as a centerpiece when both sides know you're hell bent on trading for that third star. It's hard to sell Wiseman as a center at all when both sides know you don't wanna use KAT as a 4.


I'd love to see Wiseman here, but that was unrealistic for what their vision is. I think their vision sucks, but this is the bed they made. Also, I've always believed that this team just refuses to go after guys they don't meet with and I think that comes from Glen.

Double post again wth