Garbage Time - Magic at Wolves GDT

[Coolbreeze44]

First of all, let's stop with the narrative that Orlando is a bad team...they are not. They have the highest man games lost in the Association but they are healthy now, and their record since December 5 is 16-12...the Wolves are 17-15 during that stretch. Orlando is long, athletic and deep...some of their reserves would start for certain teams. Still, this was a game we could have won with a proper effort.

I was lucky to have good seats for the Golden State game (so close to ARod I could almost smell the steroids!), and it was the most fun I have at Target Center since Gam 7 against the Kings in 2002...what a game. So I am feeling especially salty after last night's loss. Watch out...here comes a downpour of negativity and sarcasm.

1) I don't want to hear any positive comments about DLo's 4th quarter...just stop it. He was a -24 with 8 minutes left at the game and a major reason we shit the bed last night...his 6 turnovers just killed us. If his +15 in garbage time makes anyone feel better, that's fine. But I just see it as padding stats after the game is over. I have praised his defensive revival and 50-40-90 recent shooting as much as anyone, but tonight's game reinforced my belief that TC needs to get whatever he can get for him before Thursday.

2) Lost in the tragedy of last night's debacle was yet another example of the bravery of KAT. He could spent a few more days with his influencer girlfriend in California, but instead he risked life and limb in the treacherous "low chairs" of Target Center. It's a mystery to me why his courage didn't inspire his teammates more.

3) I don't think it ultimately changed the outcome of the game, but the decision of the referees after the brawl was complete BS. Jester is correct that Austin Rivers is a world class trash talker, and while we don't know what Bamba said to him after his missed corner three, there was no reason for him to be off the court in Mo's face while the game was on. Still, Bamba throwing a punch deserves a long suspension, and for the Wolves to end up with 3 ejections (when it appeared to me that Prince and Jaden were just peacemakers) and a free throw for the Magic is bizarre. Worst post-brawl call ever.

Beyond that I have nothing to say. I still love this team, but how many games do you expect to win when your starting backcourt turns the ball over 10 times? Unacceptable.

Great post LST

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

D'Angelo Russell's six turnovers last night were largely inexcusable and a waste of offensive possessions, no doubt, but they led to a whopping three points for the Magic -- Mo Bamba's three-point shot with 7:04 left to play in the first quarter. Five of his six turnovers came in the first half where he also had two steals. Saying his turnovers killed the Timberwolves isn't really a true statement or an objective overview of the game in totality, especially while dismissing the second half that he had. But that's what this board does. We overlook the good and harp on the bad.

I also think it's cute that we're still using traditional plus-minus for individual players in single games no less. Some of you have learned nothing from the discourse on here and are choosing to reference outdated measures. Let's bring back John Hollinger's Player Efficiency Rating (PER) while we're at it. I think we might need Jester to point out more "bazinga" box scores with misleading plus-minus values moving forward for it to really hit home. Shame.

And is it really "garbage time" if it's a two or three possession game with over a minute left to play? That's not the correct definition. The game didn't sound over on Orlando's broadcast either. I can tell you that. They were very anxious given Minnesota's hot shooting in the quarter. Again, weird to dismiss a close finish even in a disappointing game overall. Can't even hide those agendas anymore.

Can't talk basketball with everybody.

[Coolbreeze44]

D'Angelo Russell's six turnovers last night were largely inexcusable and a waste of offensive possessions, no doubt, but they led to a whopping three points for the Magic -- Mo Bamba's three-point shot with 7:04 left to play in the first quarter. Five of his six turnovers came in the first half where he also had two steals. Saying his turnovers killed the Timberwolves isn't really a true statement or an objective overview of the game in totality, especially while dismissing the second half that he had. But that's what this board does. We overlook the good and harp on the bad.

I also think it's cute that we're still using traditional plus-minus for individual players in single games no less. Some of you have learned nothing from the discourse on here and are choosing to reference outdated measures. Let's bring back John Hollinger's Player Efficiency Rating (PER) while we're at it. I think we might need Jester to point out more "bazinga" box scores with misleading plus-minus values moving forward for it to really hit home. Shame.

And is it really "garbage time" if it's a two or three possession game with over a minute left to play? That's not the correct definition. The game didn't sound over on Orlando's broadcast either. I can tell you that. They were very anxious given Minnesota's hot shooting in the quarter. Again, weird to dismiss a close finish even in a disappointing game overall. Can't even hide those agendas anymore.

Can't talk basketball with everybody.

Not sure I've ever seen a more blatant example of hypocrisy in my life. I'm amazed that a person like you really exists.

[AbeVigodaLive]

I would agree that D'Angelo Russell was sloppy and lackadaisical in the first half -- along with most of the Timberwolves who had played to that point -- but he was also the only player that really showed up in the second half for Minnesota besides Luka Garza and Matt Ryan late. Call me crazy, but I think you have to judge a game of basketball while looking at both halves of play.

They whittled the deficit down to seven with 1:14 left in the game primarily due to hot shooting and scrambling defense. It was still very much a contest at that point and the guys that were on the floor deserve credit for bringing it that close, especially Garza and Ryan considering they came off the bench cold.

Hopefully they all show up against Denver on Sunday. They need to right the ship immediately and avoid letting losses build up consecutively. That should feel like a playoff game.

Getting to within 7 points late in an NBA game...

Nah. I'm not giving this team any credit after being down 21 to the Orlando Magic's 2nd unit... specifically because of a lack of effort.

Those types of feel-good faux comebacks are dime a dozen in the NBA... for losing teams. We've seen hundreds of them in Minnesota over the years. It's meaningless (except for the stat sheet for individual players).

This game was decided early and it led to a 21-point deficit. Russell needs to be one of the guys who takes the heat for that.

It's not about it being a feel-good game. That's not the case whatsoever, but that unit did make a legitimate comeback when it looked like it was over, and they do deserve credit for that when we talk about the game in totality. A couple of different bounces late and Minnesota may have stolen one that they didn't deserve to win specifically because of that unit's competitiveness, which absolutely includes D'Angelo Russell, for what it's worth. Fire that DVR back up and watch it since it appears that you cut it off early.

Better efforts were needed across the board. It's tough to win when your best player puts up a stinker. It's tough to win when you turn the ball over 20 times -- 10 of which came from the starting backcourt. It's tough to win when you allow 52-percent shooting from three, and lose the points in the paint battle by 12. There's blame everywhere to be had.

It seems odd that we can't or won't recognize all of that while also crediting several guys who made the game stealable in the closing minutes when they could have mailed it in after halftime like mostly everyone else.

Nope.

I'm been very clear that moral victories (for not totally quitting after loafing to a 22-point deficit) no longer cut it. I find it amusing people would give credit to a few guys for NOT mailing it in.

Cutting a big lead to 7 is so pedestrian in the NBA by the way.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

I would agree that D'Angelo Russell was sloppy and lackadaisical in the first half -- along with most of the Timberwolves who had played to that point -- but he was also the only player that really showed up in the second half for Minnesota besides Luka Garza and Matt Ryan late. Call me crazy, but I think you have to judge a game of basketball while looking at both halves of play.

They whittled the deficit down to seven with 1:14 left in the game primarily due to hot shooting and scrambling defense. It was still very much a contest at that point and the guys that were on the floor deserve credit for bringing it that close, especially Garza and Ryan considering they came off the bench cold.

Hopefully they all show up against Denver on Sunday. They need to right the ship immediately and avoid letting losses build up consecutively. That should feel like a playoff game.

Getting to within 7 points late in an NBA game...

Nah. I'm not giving this team any credit after being down 21 to the Orlando Magic's 2nd unit... specifically because of a lack of effort.

Those types of feel-good faux comebacks are dime a dozen in the NBA... for losing teams. We've seen hundreds of them in Minnesota over the years. It's meaningless (except for the stat sheet for individual players).

This game was decided early and it led to a 21-point deficit. Russell needs to be one of the guys who takes the heat for that.

It's not about it being a feel-good game. That's not the case whatsoever, but that unit did make a legitimate comeback when it looked like it was over, and they do deserve credit for that when we talk about the game in totality. A couple of different bounces late and Minnesota may have stolen one that they didn't deserve to win specifically because of that unit's competitiveness, which absolutely includes D'Angelo Russell, for what it's worth. Fire that DVR back up and watch it since it appears that you cut it off early.

Better efforts were needed across the board. It's tough to win when your best player puts up a stinker. It's tough to win when you turn the ball over 20 times -- 10 of which came from the starting backcourt. It's tough to win when you allow 52-percent shooting from three, and lose the points in the paint battle by 12. There's blame everywhere to be had.

It seems odd that we can't or won't recognize all of that while also crediting several guys who made the game stealable in the closing minutes when they could have mailed it in after halftime like mostly everyone else.

Nope.

I'm been very clear that moral victories (for not totally quitting after loafing to a 22-point deficit) no longer cut it. I find it amusing people would give credit to a few guys for NOT mailing it in.

Cutting a big lead to 7 is so pedestrian in the NBA by the way.

It's not a moral victory. It's not a feel-good game. You watched the first half or so, turned the game off in disgust, and the rest of what happened doesn't actually matter to you. Seems peculiar to me to simply ignore a half of basketball and then have strong feelings about the game overall, but whatever. Do your thing.

[AbeVigodaLive]

I would agree that D'Angelo Russell was sloppy and lackadaisical in the first half -- along with most of the Timberwolves who had played to that point -- but he was also the only player that really showed up in the second half for Minnesota besides Luka Garza and Matt Ryan late. Call me crazy, but I think you have to judge a game of basketball while looking at both halves of play.

They whittled the deficit down to seven with 1:14 left in the game primarily due to hot shooting and scrambling defense. It was still very much a contest at that point and the guys that were on the floor deserve credit for bringing it that close, especially Garza and Ryan considering they came off the bench cold.

Hopefully they all show up against Denver on Sunday. They need to right the ship immediately and avoid letting losses build up consecutively. That should feel like a playoff game.

Getting to within 7 points late in an NBA game...

Nah. I'm not giving this team any credit after being down 21 to the Orlando Magic's 2nd unit... specifically because of a lack of effort.

Those types of feel-good faux comebacks are dime a dozen in the NBA... for losing teams. We've seen hundreds of them in Minnesota over the years. It's meaningless (except for the stat sheet for individual players).

This game was decided early and it led to a 21-point deficit. Russell needs to be one of the guys who takes the heat for that.

It's not about it being a feel-good game. That's not the case whatsoever, but that unit did make a legitimate comeback when it looked like it was over, and they do deserve credit for that when we talk about the game in totality. A couple of different bounces late and Minnesota may have stolen one that they didn't deserve to win specifically because of that unit's competitiveness, which absolutely includes D'Angelo Russell, for what it's worth. Fire that DVR back up and watch it since it appears that you cut it off early.

Better efforts were needed across the board. It's tough to win when your best player puts up a stinker. It's tough to win when you turn the ball over 20 times -- 10 of which came from the starting backcourt. It's tough to win when you allow 52-percent shooting from three, and lose the points in the paint battle by 12. There's blame everywhere to be had.

It seems odd that we can't or won't recognize all of that while also crediting several guys who made the game stealable in the closing minutes when they could have mailed it in after halftime like mostly everyone else.

Nope.

I'm been very clear that moral victories (for not totally quitting after loafing to a 22-point deficit) no longer cut it. I find it amusing people would give credit to a few guys for NOT mailing it in.

Cutting a big lead to 7 is so pedestrian in the NBA by the way.

It's not a moral victory. It's not a feel-good game. You watched the first half or so, turned the game off in disgust, and the rest of what happened doesn't actually matter to you. Seems peculiar to me to simply ignore a half of basketball and then have strong feelings about the game overall, but whatever. Do your thing.

LOL.

I think you're missing my point. Once a team is down 20+ points specifically because of a lack of effort... it's pretty meaningless what happens over a 10-minute span after the game is already decided.

Everybody who's ever watched the NBA knows about "garbage time"... even those with a very vested interest in one particular player.



[Note: Garza wasn't part of the massive underachievement for the first 30+ minutes of the game, so I think it's fair to give that guy credit should he be part of any comeback. But to praise a guy like Russell for garbage time buckets after being one of the guys directly responsible for the collapse just because you're emotionally attached to championing for said player at this point... "Do your thing." ]

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

I would agree that D'Angelo Russell was sloppy and lackadaisical in the first half -- along with most of the Timberwolves who had played to that point -- but he was also the only player that really showed up in the second half for Minnesota besides Luka Garza and Matt Ryan late. Call me crazy, but I think you have to judge a game of basketball while looking at both halves of play.

They whittled the deficit down to seven with 1:14 left in the game primarily due to hot shooting and scrambling defense. It was still very much a contest at that point and the guys that were on the floor deserve credit for bringing it that close, especially Garza and Ryan considering they came off the bench cold.

Hopefully they all show up against Denver on Sunday. They need to right the ship immediately and avoid letting losses build up consecutively. That should feel like a playoff game.

Getting to within 7 points late in an NBA game...

Nah. I'm not giving this team any credit after being down 21 to the Orlando Magic's 2nd unit... specifically because of a lack of effort.

Those types of feel-good faux comebacks are dime a dozen in the NBA... for losing teams. We've seen hundreds of them in Minnesota over the years. It's meaningless (except for the stat sheet for individual players).

This game was decided early and it led to a 21-point deficit. Russell needs to be one of the guys who takes the heat for that.

It's not about it being a feel-good game. That's not the case whatsoever, but that unit did make a legitimate comeback when it looked like it was over, and they do deserve credit for that when we talk about the game in totality. A couple of different bounces late and Minnesota may have stolen one that they didn't deserve to win specifically because of that unit's competitiveness, which absolutely includes D'Angelo Russell, for what it's worth. Fire that DVR back up and watch it since it appears that you cut it off early.

Better efforts were needed across the board. It's tough to win when your best player puts up a stinker. It's tough to win when you turn the ball over 20 times -- 10 of which came from the starting backcourt. It's tough to win when you allow 52-percent shooting from three, and lose the points in the paint battle by 12. There's blame everywhere to be had.

It seems odd that we can't or won't recognize all of that while also crediting several guys who made the game stealable in the closing minutes when they could have mailed it in after halftime like mostly everyone else.

Nope.

I'm been very clear that moral victories (for not totally quitting after loafing to a 22-point deficit) no longer cut it. I find it amusing people would give credit to a few guys for NOT mailing it in.

Cutting a big lead to 7 is so pedestrian in the NBA by the way.

It's not a moral victory. It's not a feel-good game. You watched the first half or so, turned the game off in disgust, and the rest of what happened doesn't actually matter to you. Seems peculiar to me to simply ignore a half of basketball and then have strong feelings about the game overall, but whatever. Do your thing.

LOL.

I think you're missing my point. Once a team is down 20+ points specifically because of a lack of effort... it's pretty meaningless what happens over a 10-minute span after the game is already decided.

Everybody who's ever watched the NBA knows about "garbage time"... even those with a very vested interest in one particular player.



[Note: Garza wasn't part of the massive underachievement for the first 30+ minutes of the game, so I think it's fair to give that guy credit should he be part of any comeback. But to praise a guy like Russell for garbage time buckets after being one of the guys directly responsible for the collapse... and then stay on that hill to the point of condescension to other posters just because you're emotionally attached to championing for said player at this point... LOL. ]

Reading comprehension is lost here, apparently. LOL

There was blame to be had all around for the large deficit, and that includes D'Angelo Russell. No one is absolving him of that, though he certainly didn't crater the game either. The point was that Luka Garza, Matt Ryan, and yes, Russell, were part of a lineup in the fourth quarter that removed the game from "garbage time" status by climbing back into the contest with hot shooting and scrambling defense. A two or three possession game with over a minute left is not garbage time. That is a fact.

Simply dismissing the second half, as you have, is weird fan behavior. Calling the game "decided" with, as you noted, 10-plus minutes remaining is weird fan behavior. The Timberwolves had opportunities late to steal this one despite the lack of effort early. None of this is disputable, but for whatever reason we can't just acknowledge it. LOL

Did I do that right? Or can we have discourse without the childish add-ons?

[AbeVigodaLive]

I would agree that D'Angelo Russell was sloppy and lackadaisical in the first half -- along with most of the Timberwolves who had played to that point -- but he was also the only player that really showed up in the second half for Minnesota besides Luka Garza and Matt Ryan late. Call me crazy, but I think you have to judge a game of basketball while looking at both halves of play.

They whittled the deficit down to seven with 1:14 left in the game primarily due to hot shooting and scrambling defense. It was still very much a contest at that point and the guys that were on the floor deserve credit for bringing it that close, especially Garza and Ryan considering they came off the bench cold.

Hopefully they all show up against Denver on Sunday. They need to right the ship immediately and avoid letting losses build up consecutively. That should feel like a playoff game.

Getting to within 7 points late in an NBA game...

Nah. I'm not giving this team any credit after being down 21 to the Orlando Magic's 2nd unit... specifically because of a lack of effort.

Those types of feel-good faux comebacks are dime a dozen in the NBA... for losing teams. We've seen hundreds of them in Minnesota over the years. It's meaningless (except for the stat sheet for individual players).

This game was decided early and it led to a 21-point deficit. Russell needs to be one of the guys who takes the heat for that.

It's not about it being a feel-good game. That's not the case whatsoever, but that unit did make a legitimate comeback when it looked like it was over, and they do deserve credit for that when we talk about the game in totality. A couple of different bounces late and Minnesota may have stolen one that they didn't deserve to win specifically because of that unit's competitiveness, which absolutely includes D'Angelo Russell, for what it's worth. Fire that DVR back up and watch it since it appears that you cut it off early.

Better efforts were needed across the board. It's tough to win when your best player puts up a stinker. It's tough to win when you turn the ball over 20 times -- 10 of which came from the starting backcourt. It's tough to win when you allow 52-percent shooting from three, and lose the points in the paint battle by 12. There's blame everywhere to be had.

It seems odd that we can't or won't recognize all of that while also crediting several guys who made the game stealable in the closing minutes when they could have mailed it in after halftime like mostly everyone else.

Nope.

I'm been very clear that moral victories (for not totally quitting after loafing to a 22-point deficit) no longer cut it. I find it amusing people would give credit to a few guys for NOT mailing it in.

Cutting a big lead to 7 is so pedestrian in the NBA by the way.

It's not a moral victory. It's not a feel-good game. You watched the first half or so, turned the game off in disgust, and the rest of what happened doesn't actually matter to you. Seems peculiar to me to simply ignore a half of basketball and then have strong feelings about the game overall, but whatever. Do your thing.

LOL.

I think you're missing my point. Once a team is down 20+ points specifically because of a lack of effort... it's pretty meaningless what happens over a 10-minute span after the game is already decided.

Everybody who's ever watched the NBA knows about "garbage time"... even those with a very vested interest in one particular player.



[Note: Garza wasn't part of the massive underachievement for the first 30+ minutes of the game, so I think it's fair to give that guy credit should he be part of any comeback. But to praise a guy like Russell for garbage time buckets after being one of the guys directly responsible for the collapse... and then stay on that hill to the point of condescension to other posters just because you're emotionally attached to championing for said player at this point... LOL. ]

Reading comprehension is lost here, apparently. LOL

There was blame to be had all around for the large deficit, and that includes D'Angelo Russell. No one is absolving him of that, though he certainly didn't crater the game either. The point was that Luka Garza, Matt Ryan, and yes, Russell, were part of a lineup in the fourth quarter that removed the game from "garbage time" status by climbing back into the contest with hot shooting and scrambling defense. A two or three possession game with over a minute left is not garbage time. That is a fact.

Simply dismissing the second half, as you have, is weird fan behavior. Calling the game "decided" with, as you noted, 10-plus minutes remaining is weird fan behavior. The Timberwolves had opportunities late to steal this one despite the lack of effort early. None of this is disputable, but for whatever reason we can't just acknowledge it. LOL

Did I do that right? Or can we have discourse without the childish add-ons?

You started it. Nah nah a boo boo!

"weird fan behavior"...

LOL.