Minnesota Sports Forum

BizarroJerry wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

BizarroJerry wrote:

Q12543 wrote:Since I consider myself sane (which may be presumptuous for a Wolves fan), I can only tell you how I handle it.

1. I won't vote for him, nor anyone that claims to be an acolyte of his running for lower level offices. I probably won't vote for his opponent either. This was my stance in 2016 and it likely won't change for 2020.

2. I have sought to understand how Trump came about to begin with and it will influence how I view and assess political candidates going forward.

3. I don't give eyeballs to Fox News, MSNBC, CNN, or the main networks. I get my news and opinions from the Wall Street Journal, Bloomberg, and TheHill.com. None of these are perfectly centrist, but they seem "sane" at least while still giving me a spectrum of takes.

4. One show in particular I like is Rising from TheHill.com. It has a progressive leftist and economic nationalist righty as co-hosts. Both are young-ish, intelligent, and civil with each other. They "get it" in terms of the Trump phenomena and what he tapped into. There is more overlap than one might think at first between the Saunders end of the Dem party and the economic nationalist GOP folks.

5. I try to be respectful and civil in all dialogues and try to understand the place from which people come from as they express their views.

My guess is none of this is a revelation to someone like you, but I'm not sure there is a silver bullet to this madness other than each individual taking responsibility for their own actions such that it leads us to a better place.

It's too bad you're gonna sit out another election Q. The perfect is not the enemy of the good. Biden has plenty of faults but we need to get this guy out of the white house. You're in Pennsylvania. We need you!

Believe me, I have tried to convince myself that Biden is worth my vote, but I cringe nearly every time he opens up his mouth. Or I reflect back on his record as a VP and Senator. I mean, he's on the wrong side of history on almost everything. Not to mention he's not really even his own man anymore. His handlers along with the woke left wing of his party pretty much run things at this point.

Yeah. I hope they cancel the debates. I can't watch two geriatrics go at it. I had such high hopes for Beto. I hope he returns to help Texas.

Well he certainly could use a job.

monsterpile wrote:

"You have to learn to play the game of life somewhere. It is a lot about how you carry yourself and project your thoughts that matter."

What part of our education system teaches this?

If you ever took debate you would learn this, but school gives you a lot of opportunities to practice in general.

BizarroJerry wrote:

Q12543 wrote:Since I consider myself sane (which may be presumptuous for a Wolves fan), I can only tell you how I handle it.

1. I won't vote for him, nor anyone that claims to be an acolyte of his running for lower level offices. I probably won't vote for his opponent either. This was my stance in 2016 and it likely won't change for 2020.

2. I have sought to understand how Trump came about to begin with and it will influence how I view and assess political candidates going forward.

3. I don't give eyeballs to Fox News, MSNBC, CNN, or the main networks. I get my news and opinions from the Wall Street Journal, Bloomberg, and TheHill.com. None of these are perfectly centrist, but they seem "sane" at least while still giving me a spectrum of takes.

4. One show in particular I like is Rising from TheHill.com. It has a progressive leftist and economic nationalist righty as co-hosts. Both are young-ish, intelligent, and civil with each other. They "get it" in terms of the Trump phenomena and what he tapped into. There is more overlap than one might think at first between the Saunders end of the Dem party and the economic nationalist GOP folks.

5. I try to be respectful and civil in all dialogues and try to understand the place from which people come from as they express their views.

My guess is none of this is a revelation to someone like you, but I'm not sure there is a silver bullet to this madness other than each individual taking responsibility for their own actions such that it leads us to a better place.

It's too bad you're gonna sit out another election Q. The perfect is not the enemy of the good. Biden has plenty of faults but we need to get this guy out of the white house. You're in Pennsylvania. We need you!

Oof. Joe Biden is quite literally in cognitive decline and figuratively a puppet for the left. As it's already been mentioned, his history speaks for himself and it's not complimentary. What stance of his is actually going to propel America forward? Can we even name one? And as far as his campaign has gone... how many times does this man have to put his foot in his mouth or stumble through sentences before giving up on them? Seriously, what about Biden makes him an attractive candidate?

Or is he just filler on the ballot for the self-proclaimed "Never [Donald] Trump" voters? It is quite odd how the left and its followers never embraced his presidency despite that being the traditionally right thing to do for both political parties. They have fought him tooth and nail to include false allegations and corruption in attempt to remove him from office. It's been absolutely looney tunes on that end. Compare the transition from George W. Bush to Barrack Obama to Obama to Trump. So much for the left being tolerant. The goal should be advancing the country in all facets and over the last four years I can say with full confidence that that has not been the Democrats' primary goal. They put attacking Trump's presidency over the American people. Why on earth anyone would vote for that side of the coin is way beyond me. Based on their actions, I am confident that they do not care about Americans or this country.

Sometimes, we see what we want to see.

And nothing else.

Trump is a fascinating candidate now that we know he can win. I think he's clearly egotistic, narcissistic, self-promoting, and cares about looking like he is "winning" as much as anything. I think his massive arrogance and harshness in the way he speaks, combined with how personal he is in his attacks is what drive people to hate him and then look at it as "if I don't respect the President as a person, how can I want him leading our country?" It would be like voting for the school bully to be class president.

Although I don't like the way he speaks and I disagree with many of his positions (such as complete deregulation on energy), I am able to look at the POTUS position as a matter of policy. In 20 years unless I'm convinced he's going to literally, by himself, create irreversible harm on critical infrastructure in this country, then I'm not going to let the tone of his Twitter-speak guide my decision. I voted in the Democratic primary because I believe Bloomberg, while not a perfect candidate himself, was someone who I believed would be fairly moderate and attempt to be pragmatic on getting things done. He got thrashed (mostly because he joined so late), and Biden was one of the more moderate democrats available. I look at Biden and he openly admits he's a 1 term President, so whoever he chooses as VP pick does matter to me. If he picks a progressive I think that would be a very dangerous thing given the state of this country (if the "Squad" actually starts passing their policies this country will be in a world of hurt, for instance).

I'm sure most will automatically disagree with me, but I don't believe Trump is racist. Classist, you can convince me on that for sure, but racist? I'd love to have an open conversation 1 on 1 about that with anyone over a beer or coffee, because I look at this from a larger view and believe he's an equal opportunity hater. I also don't believe Trump is all that far right. I think he plays to the base on things like Pro-Life and religion but I don't think those are stalwarts in his platform. He is a businessman, and you can read his book The Art of the Deal and you will see it play out through how he deals with everything. I'm not sure why so many people are surprised. Look at his position on anything... He starts out pushing for pie in the sky, then when his opponent gives in a bit, he ends up right where he wanted in the beginning (i.e. he starts at 10, other person starts at 3, they meet in the middle at 7, which seems like a win-win or lose-lose, when in reality Trump wanted to land at 7 from the beginning).

What will matter in 20 years is the policies of today, not who installed them. My voting history is almost directly down the middle, but depending on who Biden picks, I'll likely be leaning to vote Trump this year. Had Klobuchar been his VP pick, I would have had something real to think about, because although I don't agree with her on everything, I do on some and I respect her intelligence and willingness to get things done. And I also like her response to the "free college"...turning it into waiving tuition for trade schools (2 year degrees/less) in areas of need, for instance.

Back on Trump...is building a wall xenophobic? Is ICE? Is wanting to keep illegal immigrants out wrong? In the Trump presidency all of these are almost a resounding "yes" from both the media and many people I know. Yet were they when Obama was deporting more people than Trump or talking about the importance of protecting our borders against illegal immigration? Were they when Pelosi and Shumer both were pro-wall not 20 years ago? If all these riots weren't breaking out all over mostly democrat-led cities without virtually any pushback from local leaders, and if there weren't more and more hard left people in the legislative branch of government and in society (see the percentage of millennials that think socialism is a good idea and it's scary being they are the future), then I would be very likely to cast my vote on Biden this fall, but they are, and somehow Trump feels like the safer candidate.

Flame away :)

A quick mention of CNN vs Fox, etc. I've never really watched much MSNBC but I do know they're pretty hard left. During the Obama Presidency I watched CNN every day before work to see what was going on in the world. I continued that in the start of the Trump Presidency but when I realized absolutely every story was somehow slanted against Trump (even if the story had nothing to do with him) I couldn't handle it anymore. Hannity, Ingraham? etc on the evening Fox News can be difficult to listen to as well. Earlier in the day I've noticed a few on Fox who actually seem to be relatively fair (and by that I mean they actually invite a Democrat to speak, ask them questions, allow full answers, and don't bash their view).

I find the local news (about any of them) the most "fair", though you don't get much world news aside from the largest stories...but at least you're mostly just getting the facts rather than opinions.

bleedspeed177 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

"You have to learn to play the game of life somewhere. It is a lot about how you carry yourself and project your thoughts that matter."

What part of our education system teaches this?

If you ever took debate you would learn this, but school gives you a lot of opportunities to practice in general.

My view is we have a nation that's very easily swayed by aunt Lilliath's random Facebook posts/reports without doing any fact checking. I'm being funny here but it's also a thing...lol I think we can do a lot better in terms of teaching critical thinking. There is little to no learning when it comes to how our brain actually works. I've seen so many students come to college and they really have no idea how they learn. The school system isn't going to reach every student but what exactly is it doing well? We lag behind many countries in most subjects. Opportunity? If we aren't educating well then we are not really offering a high level of opportunity to both individuals and to drive the countries success. I think we are lagging and can do much better. Can people rise above? Sure but why not make it so it's more likely that more people do so? We can do better. I believe part of the resistance to change is simply because various people do not want to do something different and they think it's pretty much ok the way it is. That happens all the time people are resistant to change.

mrhockey89 wrote:Trump is a fascinating candidate now that we know he can win. I think he's clearly egotistic, narcissistic, self-promoting, and cares about looking like he is "winning" as much as anything. I think his massive arrogance and harshness in the way he speaks, combined with how personal he is in his attacks is what drive people to hate him and then look at it as "if I don't respect the President as a person, how can I want him leading our country?" It would be like voting for the school bully to be class president.

Although I don't like the way he speaks and I disagree with many of his positions (such as complete deregulation on energy), I am able to look at the POTUS position as a matter of policy. In 20 years unless I'm convinced he's going to literally, by himself, create irreversible harm on critical infrastructure in this country, then I'm not going to let the tone of his Twitter-speak guide my decision. I voted in the Democratic primary because I believe Bloomberg, while not a perfect candidate himself, was someone who I believed would be fairly moderate and attempt to be pragmatic on getting things done. He got thrashed (mostly because he joined so late), and Biden was one of the more moderate democrats available. I look at Biden and he openly admits he's a 1 term President, so whoever he chooses as VP pick does matter to me. If he picks a progressive I think that would be a very dangerous thing given the state of this country (if the "Squad" actually starts passing their policies this country will be in a world of hurt, for instance).

I'm sure most will automatically disagree with me, but I don't believe Trump is racist. Classist, you can convince me on that for sure, but racist? I'd love to have an open conversation 1 on 1 about that with anyone over a beer or coffee, because I look at this from a larger view and believe he's an equal opportunity hater. I also don't believe Trump is all that far right. I think he plays to the base on things like Pro-Life and religion but I don't think those are stalwarts in his platform. He is a businessman, and you can read his book The Art of the Deal and you will see it play out through how he deals with everything. I'm not sure why so many people are surprised. Look at his position on anything... He starts out pushing for pie in the sky, then when his opponent gives in a bit, he ends up right where he wanted in the beginning (i.e. he starts at 10, other person starts at 3, they meet in the middle at 7, which seems like a win-win or lose-lose, when in reality Trump wanted to land at 7 from the beginning).

What will matter in 20 years is the policies of today, not who installed them. My voting history is almost directly down the middle, but depending on who Biden picks, I'll likely be leaning to vote Trump this year. Had Klobuchar been his VP pick, I would have had something real to think about, because although I don't agree with her on everything, I do on some and I respect her intelligence and willingness to get things done. And I also like her response to the "free college"...turning it into waiving tuition for trade schools (2 year degrees/less) in areas of need, for instance.

Back on Trump...is building a wall xenophobic? Is ICE? Is wanting to keep illegal immigrants out wrong? In the Trump presidency all of these are almost a resounding "yes" from both the media and many people I know. Yet were they when Obama was deporting more people than Trump or talking about the importance of protecting our borders against illegal immigration? Were they when Pelosi and Shumer both were pro-wall not 20 years ago? If all these riots weren't breaking out all over mostly democrat-led cities without virtually any pushback from local leaders, and if there weren't more and more hard left people in the legislative branch of government and in society (see the percentage of millennials that think socialism is a good idea and it's scary being they are the future), then I would be very likely to cast my vote on Biden this fall, but they are, and somehow Trump feels like the safer candidate.

Flame away :)

I think You bring up a good point about Biden's running mate. Who he picks and how that works out could be the difference in the election for a few different reasons. I hope the decision is a wise one.

I'll keep My thoughts on Trump to simply a more simple leadership standpoint. I'll also mention that I haven't exactly been a fan of Trump but from when he became an actual candidate I've honestly gave him the benefit of the doubt and often still do which I think drives some people around me a little nutty but that's not too unusual. Lol if I'm going to knock Trump on something I'm gonna make sure I've checked it out and made a decision for myself. Personally I think there is plenty to knock Trump on so pick stuff that's legit. I also agree Trump gets knocked for stuff that he shouldn't. That's nothing THAT new it happens to everyone.

So Trump as a leader...I would NEVER want to work for this guy. This pandemic was an absolute golden chance for him to be someone to rally behind. Nope we often don't have a clear message. Would I want to work for a guy that seems willing to take a shot at someone whenever he gets the chance? He simply acts like an asshole on Twitter. This guy says whatever he wants whenever he wants and it's not pretty. I accepted a new job this week and one of the reasons I stayed at my current job as long as I did was my current boss. He is probably the best supervisor I have ever worked for. He isn't just a great guy to work for (players coach Lol) if there is something that needs to be said he will do that. He is insightful and the location I work out of is considered the best in the company partly because of his leadership. It's not what Trump says it's often the way he goes about it. That can be a big problem for me. Oh and Trump claims to be so strong so tough but he whines all the time about so many things. If he thinks something isn't fair like the media I think there would be more effective ways to go about it. Sure I get to some extent he isn't trying I get them in his corner but just alienating people probably isn't the answer either.

mrhockey89 wrote:Trump is a fascinating candidate now that we know he can win. I think he's clearly egotistic, narcissistic, self-promoting, and cares about looking like he is "winning" as much as anything. I think his massive arrogance and harshness in the way he speaks, combined with how personal he is in his attacks is what drive people to hate him and then look at it as "if I don't respect the President as a person, how can I want him leading our country?" It would be like voting for the school bully to be class president.

Although I don't like the way he speaks and I disagree with many of his positions (such as complete deregulation on energy), I am able to look at the POTUS position as a matter of policy. In 20 years unless I'm convinced he's going to literally, by himself, create irreversible harm on critical infrastructure in this country, then I'm not going to let the tone of his Twitter-speak guide my decision. I voted in the Democratic primary because I believe Bloomberg, while not a perfect candidate himself, was someone who I believed would be fairly moderate and attempt to be pragmatic on getting things done. He got thrashed (mostly because he joined so late), and Biden was one of the more moderate democrats available. I look at Biden and he openly admits he's a 1 term President, so whoever he chooses as VP pick does matter to me. If he picks a progressive I think that would be a very dangerous thing given the state of this country (if the "Squad" actually starts passing their policies this country will be in a world of hurt, for instance).

I'm sure most will automatically disagree with me, but I don't believe Trump is racist. Classist, you can convince me on that for sure, but racist? I'd love to have an open conversation 1 on 1 about that with anyone over a beer or coffee, because I look at this from a larger view and believe he's an equal opportunity hater. I also don't believe Trump is all that far right. I think he plays to the base on things like Pro-Life and religion but I don't think those are stalwarts in his platform. He is a businessman, and you can read his book The Art of the Deal and you will see it play out through how he deals with everything. I'm not sure why so many people are surprised. Look at his position on anything... He starts out pushing for pie in the sky, then when his opponent gives in a bit, he ends up right where he wanted in the beginning (i.e. he starts at 10, other person starts at 3, they meet in the middle at 7, which seems like a win-win or lose-lose, when in reality Trump wanted to land at 7 from the beginning).

What will matter in 20 years is the policies of today, not who installed them. My voting history is almost directly down the middle, but depending on who Biden picks, I'll likely be leaning to vote Trump this year. Had Klobuchar been his VP pick, I would have had something real to think about, because although I don't agree with her on everything, I do on some and I respect her intelligence and willingness to get things done. And I also like her response to the "free college"...turning it into waiving tuition for trade schools (2 year degrees/less) in areas of need, for instance.

Back on Trump...is building a wall xenophobic? Is ICE? Is wanting to keep illegal immigrants out wrong? In the Trump presidency all of these are almost a resounding "yes" from both the media and many people I know. Yet were they when Obama was deporting more people than Trump or talking about the importance of protecting our borders against illegal immigration? Were they when Pelosi and Shumer both were pro-wall not 20 years ago? If all these riots weren't breaking out all over mostly democrat-led cities without virtually any pushback from local leaders, and if there weren't more and more hard left people in the legislative branch of government and in society (see the percentage of millennials that think socialism is a good idea and it's scary being they are the future), then I would be very likely to cast my vote on Biden this fall, but they are, and somehow Trump feels like the safer candidate.

Flame away :)

I think You bring up a good point about Biden's running mate. Who he picks and how that works out could be the difference in the election for a few different reasons. I hope the decision is a wise one.

I'll keep My thoughts on Trump to simply a more simple leadership standpoint. I'll also mention that I haven't exactly been a fan of Trump but from when he became an actual candidate I've honestly gave him the benefit of the doubt and often still do which I think drives some people around me a little nutty but that's not too unusual. Lol if I'm going to knock Trump on something I'm gonna make sure I've checked it out and made a decision for myself. Personally I think there is plenty to knock Trump on so pick stuff that's legit. I also agree Trump gets knocked for stuff that he shouldn't. That's nothing THAT new it happens to everyone.

So Trump as a leader...I would NEVER want to work for this guy. This pandemic was an absolute golden chance for him to be someone to rally behind. Nope we often don't have a clear message. Would I want to work for a guy that seems willing to take a shot at someone whenever he gets the chance? He simply acts like an asshole on Twitter. This guy says whatever he wants whenever he wants and it's not pretty. I accepted a new job this week and one of the reasons I stayed at my current job as long as I did was my current boss. He is probably the best supervisor I have ever worked for. He isn't just a great guy to work for (players coach Lol) if there is something that needs to be said he will do that. He is insightful and the location I work out of is considered the best in the company partly because of his leadership. It's not what Trump says it's often the way he goes about it. That can be a big problem for me. Oh and Trump claims to be so strong so tough but he whines all the time about so many things. If he thinks something isn't fair like the media I think there would be more effective ways to go about it. Sure I get to some extent he isn't trying I get them in his corner but just alienating people probably isn't the answer either.

Camden wrote:

BizarroJerry wrote:

Q12543 wrote:Since I consider myself sane (which may be presumptuous for a Wolves fan), I can only tell you how I handle it.

1. I won't vote for him, nor anyone that claims to be an acolyte of his running for lower level offices. I probably won't vote for his opponent either. This was my stance in 2016 and it likely won't change for 2020.

2. I have sought to understand how Trump came about to begin with and it will influence how I view and assess political candidates going forward.

3. I don't give eyeballs to Fox News, MSNBC, CNN, or the main networks. I get my news and opinions from the Wall Street Journal, Bloomberg, and TheHill.com. None of these are perfectly centrist, but they seem "sane" at least while still giving me a spectrum of takes.

4. One show in particular I like is Rising from TheHill.com. It has a progressive leftist and economic nationalist righty as co-hosts. Both are young-ish, intelligent, and civil with each other. They "get it" in terms of the Trump phenomena and what he tapped into. There is more overlap than one might think at first between the Saunders end of the Dem party and the economic nationalist GOP folks.

5. I try to be respectful and civil in all dialogues and try to understand the place from which people come from as they express their views.

My guess is none of this is a revelation to someone like you, but I'm not sure there is a silver bullet to this madness other than each individual taking responsibility for their own actions such that it leads us to a better place.

It's too bad you're gonna sit out another election Q. The perfect is not the enemy of the good. Biden has plenty of faults but we need to get this guy out of the white house. You're in Pennsylvania. We need you!

Oof. Joe Biden is quite literally in cognitive decline and figuratively a puppet for the left. As it's already been mentioned, his history speaks for himself and it's not complimentary. What stance of his is actually going to propel America forward? Can we even name one? And as far as his campaign has gone... how many times does this man have to put his foot in his mouth or stumble through sentences before giving up on them? Seriously, what about Biden makes him an attractive candidate?

Or is he just filler on the ballot for the self-proclaimed "Never [Donald] Trump" voters? It is quite odd how the left and its followers never embraced his presidency despite that being the traditionally right thing to do for both political parties. They have fought him tooth and nail to include false allegations and corruption in attempt to remove him from office. It's been absolutely looney tunes on that end. Compare the transition from George W. Bush to Barrack Obama to Obama to Trump. So much for the left being tolerant. The goal should be advancing the country in all facets and over the last four years I can say with full confidence that that has not been the Democrats' primary goal. They put attacking Trump's presidency over the American people. Why on earth anyone would vote for that side of the coin is way beyond me. Based on their actions, I am confident that they do not care about Americans or this country.

IDK....the Republicans were pretty harsh with Obama. I think Obama didn't make it easy on himself with his arrogance and tendency to lecture people. But the Republicans were pretty obstructionist.