Minnesota Sports Forum

So nobody believes Ricky's on/off numbers are skewed by the fact we have lacked a competent backup PG pretty much the entire time he's been here? JJ Barea is probably the best backup PG we've had behind Ricky and I don't think he's very close to the top in terms of quality backup PG's. Mo was traded before he really got the chance to be Ricky's backup this season. On/Off numbers are a combination of the guy leaving and the guy coming on. I don't understand how it's a good argument for saying how good a player is when it has to measure the performance of another player. You're essentially arguing Ricky's good because he's way better than our backup PG's. How is that a way to measure a guy against his peers individually? There's way too many factors that go into On/Off (who's replacing him, who's playing with his replacement, who is he playing with, who are they playing against) to use that as an excuse for why a guy is good. Yes good players have good on/off numbers, but they aren't deemed good players just because of their on/off numbers.

I blame it on your Gugliotta-inspired tribal tattoo on your bicep.

khans2k5 wrote:So nobody believes Ricky's on/off numbers are skewed by the fact we have lacked a competent backup PG pretty much the entire time he's been here? JJ Barea is probably the best backup PG we've had behind Ricky and I don't think he's very close to the top in terms of quality backup PG's. Mo was traded before he really got the chance to be Ricky's backup this season. On/Off numbers are a combination of the guy leaving and the guy coming on. I don't understand how it's a good argument for saying how good a player is when it has to measure the performance of another player. You're essentially arguing Ricky's good because he's way better than our backup PG's. How is that a way to measure a guy against his peers individually? There's way too many factors that go into On/Off (who's replacing him, who's playing with his replacement, who is he playing with, who are they playing against) to use that as an excuse for why a guy is good. Yes good players have good on/off numbers, but they aren't deemed good players just because of their on/off numbers.

I'd probably go with Ridnour but either way you make a good point plus it wasn't just a couple years ago that our bench sucked it's been mostly terrible for years. Because of injuries to Rubio other players and general lack of talent while he has been here it's a little hard to really know what effect he has for certain. Hopefully we get to find that out more completely this season.

monsterpile wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:So nobody believes Ricky's on/off numbers are skewed by the fact we have lacked a competent backup PG pretty much the entire time he's been here? JJ Barea is probably the best backup PG we've had behind Ricky and I don't think he's very close to the top in terms of quality backup PG's. Mo was traded before he really got the chance to be Ricky's backup this season. On/Off numbers are a combination of the guy leaving and the guy coming on. I don't understand how it's a good argument for saying how good a player is when it has to measure the performance of another player. You're essentially arguing Ricky's good because he's way better than our backup PG's. How is that a way to measure a guy against his peers individually? There's way too many factors that go into On/Off (who's replacing him, who's playing with his replacement, who is he playing with, who are they playing against) to use that as an excuse for why a guy is good. Yes good players have good on/off numbers, but they aren't deemed good players just because of their on/off numbers.

I'd probably go with Ridnour but either way you make a good point plus it wasn't just a couple years ago that our bench sucked it's been mostly terrible for years. Because of injuries to Rubio other players and general lack of talent while he has been here it's a little hard to really know what effect he has for certain. Hopefully we get to find that out more completely this season.

Ridnour never really got to be Ricky's backup in my opinion. He was always playing the 2 next to Ricky and JJ it seemed. I think he would have been better than JJ, I just don't think he was played in the role my post was referring to.

Bottom line for me...

We're four years in with Ricky Rubio... and I still don't know how good he is. Not only is he a hard guy to judge because of his uniqueness, but with the injuries to himself and others... I really don't know.

Usually, guys like that eventually end up being jettisoned if the winning doesn't follow. It's just easier to point to their weaknesses... whether that's fair or not, or accurate or not... as a reason for the malaise. Personally, I don't think Rubio has been the glaring problem. But, have we seen enough of him and think highly enough of him to be confident that he's part of the solution?

AbeVigodaLive wrote:Bottom line for me...

We're four years in with Ricky Rubio... and I still don't know how good he is. Not only is he a hard guy to judge because of his uniqueness, but with the injuries to himself and others... I really don't know.

Usually, guys like that eventually end up being jettisoned if the winning doesn't follow. It's just easier to point to their weaknesses... whether that's fair or not, or accurate or not... as a reason for the malaise. Personally, I don't think Rubio has been the glaring problem. But, have we seen enough of him and think highly enough of him to be confident that he's part of the solution?

That's a pretty good summation imo.

khans2k5 wrote:So nobody believes Ricky's on/off numbers are skewed by the fact we have lacked a competent backup PG pretty much the entire time he's been here? JJ Barea is probably the best backup PG we've had behind Ricky and I don't think he's very close to the top in terms of quality backup PG's. Mo was traded before he really got the chance to be Ricky's backup this season. On/Off numbers are a combination of the guy leaving and the guy coming on. I don't understand how it's a good argument for saying how good a player is when it has to measure the performance of another player. You're essentially arguing Ricky's good because he's way better than our backup PG's. How is that a way to measure a guy against his peers individually? There's way too many factors that go into On/Off (who's replacing him, who's playing with his replacement, who is he playing with, who are they playing against) to use that as an excuse for why a guy is good. Yes good players have good on/off numbers, but they aren't deemed good players just because of their on/off numbers.

This is exactly right. It's one thing to spew stats, it's another to know what they actually mean.

Abe you keep making my points before I can get to them