Minnesota Sports Forum

Glen would never sign off on a trade of KAT, unless we were getting someone better in return, I'm convinced of it. Thib might have total control of operations, but Glen still needs to sign off on it, and Glen's not going to let Thib take his best franchise superstart draftee this side of Kevin Garnett.

With that said, there's probably one player in this league who we could realistically potentially get that I'd entertain trading KAT for, and that's Kawhi. You basically have two Jimmy Butlers out there on both ends of the court, and that's a good thing, though I'd only do that trade if we could guarantee an extension AND after exhausting all other trade possibilities (i.e. trading KAT would be the last resort option in this scenario, but probably the only one that moves the needle for Pop).

In the end, our young guys really need to toughen up. Thibs offense may leave something to be desired (i.e. not opening our guys up to run), but it all starts on defense. And even if you think Thibs defense isn't for the modern NBA (perimeter-in), there's one thing you can't discount about the guy, he puts in more effort than anyone else in the details. So even if/when we move on from Thibs, I hope that's one thing they learn from him. Playing hard on both ends matter, details matter.

mrhockey89 wrote:Glen would never sign off on a trade of KAT, unless we were getting someone better in return, I'm convinced of it. Thib might have total control of operations, but Glen still needs to sign off on it, and Glen's not going to let Thib take his best franchise superstart draftee this side of Kevin Garnett.

With that said, there's probably one player in this league who we could realistically potentially get that I'd entertain trading KAT for, and that's Kawhi. You basically have two Jimmy Butlers out there on both ends of the court, and that's a good thing, though I'd only do that trade if we could guarantee an extension AND after exhausting all other trade possibilities (i.e. trading KAT would be the last resort option in this scenario, but probably the only one that moves the needle for Pop).

In the end, our young guys really need to toughen up. Thibs offense may leave something to be desired (i.e. not opening our guys up to run), but it all starts on defense. And even if you think Thibs defense isn't for the modern NBA (perimeter-in), there's one thing you can't discount about the guy, he puts in more effort than anyone else in the details. So even if/when we move on from Thibs, I hope that's one thing they learn from him. Playing hard on both ends matter, details matter.

And even with Kawhi, he missed all but 9 games this year. Who knows what Kawhi is going to be like coming back.

mrhockey89 wrote:Glen would never sign off on a trade of KAT, unless we were getting someone better in return, I'm convinced of it. Thib might have total control of operations, but Glen still needs to sign off on it, and Glen's not going to let Thib take his best franchise superstart draftee this side of Kevin Garnett.

With that said, there's probably one player in this league who we could realistically potentially get that I'd entertain trading KAT for, and that's Kawhi. You basically have two Jimmy Butlers out there on both ends of the court, and that's a good thing, though I'd only do that trade if we could guarantee an extension AND after exhausting all other trade possibilities (i.e. trading KAT would be the last resort option in this scenario, but probably the only one that moves the needle for Pop).

In the end, our young guys really need to toughen up. Thibs offense may leave something to be desired (i.e. not opening our guys up to run), but it all starts on defense. And even if you think Thibs defense isn't for the modern NBA (perimeter-in), there's one thing you can't discount about the guy, he puts in more effort than anyone else in the details. So even if/when we move on from Thibs, I hope that's one thing they learn from him. Playing hard on both ends matter, details matter.

Yes, we'd have two Jimmy Butlers as in two players who miss at 15-20 games just about every season. And who knows where Leonard is at physically after missing all but 9 games last season. KAT for Leonard would be a horrible trade for the Wolves.

lipoli390 wrote:

mrhockey89 wrote:Glen would never sign off on a trade of KAT, unless we were getting someone better in return, I'm convinced of it. Thib might have total control of operations, but Glen still needs to sign off on it, and Glen's not going to let Thib take his best franchise superstart draftee this side of Kevin Garnett.

With that said, there's probably one player in this league who we could realistically potentially get that I'd entertain trading KAT for, and that's Kawhi. You basically have two Jimmy Butlers out there on both ends of the court, and that's a good thing, though I'd only do that trade if we could guarantee an extension AND after exhausting all other trade possibilities (i.e. trading KAT would be the last resort option in this scenario, but probably the only one that moves the needle for Pop).

In the end, our young guys really need to toughen up. Thibs offense may leave something to be desired (i.e. not opening our guys up to run), but it all starts on defense. And even if you think Thibs defense isn't for the modern NBA (perimeter-in), there's one thing you can't discount about the guy, he puts in more effort than anyone else in the details. So even if/when we move on from Thibs, I hope that's one thing they learn from him. Playing hard on both ends matter, details matter.

Yes, we'd have two Jimmy Butlers as in two players who miss at 15-20 games just about every season. And who knows where Leonard is at physically after missing all but 9 games last season. KAT for Leonard would be a horrible trade for the Wolves.

For the record, this is a good response. I continue to say that I wouldn't trade Towns for anyone else in the NBA. Build around him. If it means dealing Wiggins, then do so. If it means dealing Butler and retooling, then do so.

lipoli390 wrote:

Mikkeman wrote:I think Wolves current situation looks pretty similar to 2013-14 Golden State. Golden State had just 'sacrifaced' their future by trading two first round picks for 29 year old Iggy and despite that trade they did improve only 4 games with Iggy playing only 63 games and having his lowest scoring average since his rookie season. At least Butler was still all star level player with Wolves and helped Wolves to get pla

I'm pretty sure nobody expected Golden State to make dramatic improvement for next season and many were questioning move that they had made for Iggy.

If Wolves youngsters will make similar improvement than Golden State players made next season, trade for Butler will look just great like even Iggy trade looked afterwards. If KAT will be MVP or at least bona fide MVP candidate like Curry was 2014-15, Wiggins one of the most efficient two way shooting guards like Thompson was and Tyus Jones surprise us by becoming upgrade compared to Teague as starter, like Green did, Wolves can make similar improvement than Warriors did. Of course it is not probable that above happens but if it would, our management and their moves would look just as brilliant as Golden State management looked.

I don't agree that the situation looks similar. The Warriors 47-win season in 2012-13 was propelled by their two young budding stars in their early 20s, Curry and Thompson -- mainly Curry. The Wolves 47-win season was propelled primarily by the soon-to-be 29 year old Butler and 33-year old Gibson in addition to our young budding star, KAT.

However, you make a good point about how things could turn out well if KAT, Wiggins and Tyus develop and reach what many believe to be their full potential. But those are some pretty big "ifs" there. Further, Butler's about to command a veteran max deal and would never accept a complementary role like Iggy's. In addition, we have cap issues the Warriors did not have back then and we don't have the young assets like Barnes, Ezeli. So I just don't see many good parallels between the Wolves situation today and the Warriors back then.

I wasn't comparing Wolves to 2012-13 Golden State team but instead of it I compared them to 2013-14 team that improved just 4 games despite huge trade for Iggy that was expected to improve them much more than it did.

But if we look 2012-13 Warriors team, I wouldn't say that their improvement would have mainly come from young guys improving either. Main reasons why they went from 23 wins to 47 are: longer season (23 wins would have been equal to 29 wins in normal season) and Stephen Curry playing 78 games instead of 26 that he played in 2011-12. Warriors had 0.500 record with Curry playing even in 2011-12, so if he would have been healthy full season it is pretty safe to assume that they would have won about half of their games. Especially if you consider that they had won 36 games in previous year with same core (Lee, Ellis, Curry and Wright).

So after 2013-14 season it looked like Warriors had made a major trade for Iggy that mortgaged their future as they lost two first round picks and that their improvement had already stalled. After all they had improved just 15 games from Curry's 2nd season 2010-11 to his 5th season 2013-14 despite trading for Iggy & Bogut and nice improvement from Curry and some improvement from Thompson. Even tough Curry and Thompson had individually improved quite nicely, their improvement hadn't lead to that much more wins.

I think many of us have pretty similar thoughts about current Wolves squad. They have improved from 29 wins to 47 and improvement has come mainly due trade for Butler, signing Taj and nice improvement from KAT and some improvement especially from defensive side from Wiggins. So because improvement has mainly come due veterans, it looks like Wolves might not be able to take next step. But no one did expect Warriors to make that dramatic improvement in 2014-15 season either.

In Warriors case it was maybe result of changing coach and letting same group of players to learn to play better with each other. Both things might have helped Warriors young players to improve. I hope that in Wolves case, they would make also only minor changes to their roster next summer (mainly to improve three point shooting and defense) and this more stable environment would help their youngsters to make more dramatic improvement step that is required for Wolves to become true contenders.

So I would give Thibbs one more season as coach (even Marc Jackson got to coach three seasons before they hired Kerr), if team wouldn't improve much then I would strongly consider getting a new coach.

Camden0916 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

mrhockey89 wrote:Glen would never sign off on a trade of KAT, unless we were getting someone better in return, I'm convinced of it. Thib might have total control of operations, but Glen still needs to sign off on it, and Glen's not going to let Thib take his best franchise superstart draftee this side of Kevin Garnett.

With that said, there's probably one player in this league who we could realistically potentially get that I'd entertain trading KAT for, and that's Kawhi. You basically have two Jimmy Butlers out there on both ends of the court, and that's a good thing, though I'd only do that trade if we could guarantee an extension AND after exhausting all other trade possibilities (i.e. trading KAT would be the last resort option in this scenario, but probably the only one that moves the needle for Pop).

In the end, our young guys really need to toughen up. Thibs offense may leave something to be desired (i.e. not opening our guys up to run), but it all starts on defense. And even if you think Thibs defense isn't for the modern NBA (perimeter-in), there's one thing you can't discount about the guy, he puts in more effort than anyone else in the details. So even if/when we move on from Thibs, I hope that's one thing they learn from him. Playing hard on both ends matter, details matter.

Yes, we'd have two Jimmy Butlers as in two players who miss at 15-20 games just about every season. And who knows where Leonard is at physically after missing all but 9 games last season. KAT for Leonard would be a horrible trade for the Wolves.

For the record, this is a good response. I continue to say that I wouldn't trade Towns for anyone else in the NBA. Build around him. If it means dealing Wiggins, then do so. If it means dealing Butler and retooling, then do so.

Don't you have to tool before you can retool?