Minnesota Sports Forum

AussieWolf3 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 27, 2026 7:03 pm I feel like I'm losing my mind.

Go look up the league's staying power forwards, Jaden and his body type wouldn't look out of place at all on that list. In fact guys like Giannis look more out of place than Jaden.

If you ask me, I'd be more in favor of upgrading POA at the SF spot cause I'm not entirely sold on Ayo there but I'm hopeful. Regardless I'm comfortable handing that duty off to him and letting Jaden work off the help side. You're most impactful defenders are almost always big for a reason, it's an easier position to impact the offense from and I really believe number 3 will thrive here

Jaden as PF isn't without some caveats and risk, but I think he'll excel, and for what it's worth he's a good and gritty rebounder when the game plan calls for it.

All that said they absolutely need legit depth at the forward position. Ant also has to start taking defense seriously again, and to be honest I think he will. I don't think it's a coincidence that his downward trend here started with Conley's role getting diminished after Randle's arrival.

There is just more consternation here than seems worthwhile to me

The issue isn't with Jaden at the 4. The issue is that the rest of our wings have either body types that are more 1/2 than 3/4, or are rookies. I hardly trust any of them guarding bigger wings, let alone any actual 4, nor rebounding the position. Behind both Rudy and Jaden, there is nobody proven.

BeenLurkin wrote: ↑Sat Jun 27, 2026 7:01 pm LaMelo Ball averages over five rebounds a game. In ayo’s time with the wolves last year, he averaged a full rebound higher than his career average.. Kaufman Renn best skill was rebounding in college. If we are expecting Ant to be more locked in defensively with less on his plate on the offensive side of the showrunner, maybe we can get elite and defense more often or expect a slight bump in his rebounds at worse.

One addition won’t replace 13 rebounds. There are ways to backfill it in aggregate an la money all

LaMelo has averaged 5.7 rebounds per game in his career and 4.8 boards last season. The fact that he’s a very good rebounder at his position will help. But we also have to factor in the fact that he’s replacing a player in last season’s starting lineup, Donte, who averaged 4.1 rebounds per game. It’s the net impact that matters. Ayo averaged 4.2 rebounds last season. That’s a source of rebounding we didn’t have the first four months of the season. But the reality is that we’re losing 13 rebounds per game. That’s a lot. Even if Ball averages 6 rebounds per game, that’s a net gain of only 2. Assume Ayo averages 4.5, which would be a career high for him. That’s 6.5 of the 13 rebounds we’re losing. Jaden’s averaged 4.2 last season, which is also his career average. Suppose he takes that to 6.2, which is very optimistic considering his track record. Now we’re up to 8.5, which still leaves us 4.5 rebounds short of what we got from our two departing PFs and that’s under some really optimistic assumptions. Don’t get me wrong, I think we’re going to get terrific rebounding from Ball and I can see Jaden ramping up a little in that department. But we have a real challenge on our hands just to get back to even on the boards and teams that win the battle of the boards tend to come out on top.

AussieWolf3 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 27, 2026 7:03 pm I feel like I'm losing my mind.

Go look up the league's staying power forwards, Jaden and his body type wouldn't look out of place at all on that list. In fact guys like Giannis look more out of place than Jaden.

If you ask me, I'd be more in favor of upgrading POA at the SF spot cause I'm not entirely sold on Ayo there but I'm hopeful. Regardless I'm comfortable handing that duty off to him and letting Jaden work off the help side. You're most impactful defenders are almost always big for a reason, it's an easier position to impact the offense from and I really believe number 3 will thrive here

Jaden as PF isn't without some caveats and risk, but I think he'll excel, and for what it's worth he's a good and gritty rebounder when the game plan calls for it.

All that said they absolutely need legit depth at the forward position. Ant also has to start taking defense seriously again, and to be honest I think he will. I don't think it's a coincidence that his downward trend here started with Conley's role getting diminished after Randle's arrival.

There is just more consternation here than seems worthwhile to me

Totally predicting based on nothing here but maybe Jaden has less games where he picks up 2 fouls in 4 min and we don’t see him again till the third quarter if we ask him to guard guys his own height and size and not be the on ball point of attack defender?

If we want more offense from him we have to take away his avenue to get into foul trouble. He isn’t gonna get the respect from refs if he hasn’t to this point so just stop already. We can’t have the best offensive trio in the game if 1/3 of them can’t stay on the court because they foul.

I think I’d rather task someone we aren’t expecting to carry our scoring with POA and let Jaden play how he says he prefers. He is elite POa but the refs don’t give him the benefit of the doubt still to this day and it just is a square peg in a round hole.

TheFuture wrote: ↑Sat Jun 27, 2026 7:14 pm

AussieWolf3 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 27, 2026 7:03 pm I feel like I'm losing my mind.

Go look up the league's staying power forwards, Jaden and his body type wouldn't look out of place at all on that list. In fact guys like Giannis look more out of place than Jaden.

If you ask me, I'd be more in favor of upgrading POA at the SF spot cause I'm not entirely sold on Ayo there but I'm hopeful. Regardless I'm comfortable handing that duty off to him and letting Jaden work off the help side. You're most impactful defenders are almost always big for a reason, it's an easier position to impact the offense from and I really believe number 3 will thrive here

Jaden as PF isn't without some caveats and risk, but I think he'll excel, and for what it's worth he's a good and gritty rebounder when the game plan calls for it.

All that said they absolutely need legit depth at the forward position. Ant also has to start taking defense seriously again, and to be honest I think he will. I don't think it's a coincidence that his downward trend here started with Conley's role getting diminished after Randle's arrival.

There is just more consternation here than seems worthwhile to me

The issue isn't with Jaden at the 4. The issue is that the rest of our wings have either body types that are more 1/2 than 3/4, or are rookies. I hardly trust any of them guarding bigger wings, let alone any actual 4, nor rebounding the position. Behind both Rudy and Jaden, there is nobody proven.

I think TSJ has the body to defend the 3 and I agree with those who say Jaden can defender the 4. But you raise an important point. It’s one thing to have the physical tools to guard a position, which I believe TSJ has, but it’s another thing to actually do it and TSJ remains unproven so far. You’re also right that we have nobody proven behind Rudy and Jaden up front. I’ve already discussed my concern about the rebounding deficit we have to overcome after losing both Randle and Naz.

I think all of this is fixable before next season, but it will take a savvy move or two to address our front court/rebounding issue. I’ll reiterate my view that the front office doesn’t need to make a big splash to effectively address these issues and we really don’t have the assets to make a big splash anyway. A smart surgical move or two will be enough. If we want a proven starting PF, then we’ll have to trade both Green and Donte. Otherwise, I remain convinced that signing a couple tough, high-motor defensive free-agent bigs who can give us 6.5 rebounds in 20 minutes will be enough. Achiuwa, Jock or Sochan and maybe Drummond too.

TheFuture wrote: ↑Sat Jun 27, 2026 7:14 pm

AussieWolf3 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 27, 2026 7:03 pm I feel like I'm losing my mind.

Go look up the league's staying power forwards, Jaden and his body type wouldn't look out of place at all on that list. In fact guys like Giannis look more out of place than Jaden.

If you ask me, I'd be more in favor of upgrading POA at the SF spot cause I'm not entirely sold on Ayo there but I'm hopeful. Regardless I'm comfortable handing that duty off to him and letting Jaden work off the help side. You're most impactful defenders are almost always big for a reason, it's an easier position to impact the offense from and I really believe number 3 will thrive here

Jaden as PF isn't without some caveats and risk, but I think he'll excel, and for what it's worth he's a good and gritty rebounder when the game plan calls for it.

All that said they absolutely need legit depth at the forward position. Ant also has to start taking defense seriously again, and to be honest I think he will. I don't think it's a coincidence that his downward trend here started with Conley's role getting diminished after Randle's arrival.

There is just more consternation here than seems worthwhile to me

The issue isn't with Jaden at the 4. The issue is that the rest of our wings have either body types that are more 1/2 than 3/4, or are rookies. I hardly trust any of them guarding bigger wings, let alone any actual 4, nor rebounding the position. Behind both Rudy and Jaden, there is nobody proven.

Truth

Lipoli390 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 27, 2026 7:45 pm

TheFuture wrote: ↑Sat Jun 27, 2026 7:14 pm

AussieWolf3 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 27, 2026 7:03 pm I feel like I'm losing my mind.

Go look up the league's staying power forwards, Jaden and his body type wouldn't look out of place at all on that list. In fact guys like Giannis look more out of place than Jaden.

If you ask me, I'd be more in favor of upgrading POA at the SF spot cause I'm not entirely sold on Ayo there but I'm hopeful. Regardless I'm comfortable handing that duty off to him and letting Jaden work off the help side. You're most impactful defenders are almost always big for a reason, it's an easier position to impact the offense from and I really believe number 3 will thrive here

Jaden as PF isn't without some caveats and risk, but I think he'll excel, and for what it's worth he's a good and gritty rebounder when the game plan calls for it.

All that said they absolutely need legit depth at the forward position. Ant also has to start taking defense seriously again, and to be honest I think he will. I don't think it's a coincidence that his downward trend here started with Conley's role getting diminished after Randle's arrival.

There is just more consternation here than seems worthwhile to me

The issue isn't with Jaden at the 4. The issue is that the rest of our wings have either body types that are more 1/2 than 3/4, or are rookies. I hardly trust any of them guarding bigger wings, let alone any actual 4, nor rebounding the position. Behind both Rudy and Jaden, there is nobody proven.

I think TSJ has the body to defend the 3 and I agree with those who say Jaden can defender the 4. But you raise an important point. It’s one thing to have the physical tools to guard a position, which I believe TSJ has, but it’s another thing to actually do it and TSJ remains unproven so far. You’re also right that we have nobody proven behind Rudy and Jaden up front. I’ve already discussed my concern about the rebounding deficit we have to overcome after losing both Randle and Naz.

I think all of this is fixable before next season, but it will take a savvy move or two to address our front court/rebounding issue. I’ll reiterate my view that the front office doesn’t need to make a big splash to effectively address these issues and we really don’t have the assets to make a big splash anyway. A smart surgical move or two will be enough. If we want a proven starting PF, then we’ll have to trade both Green and Donte. Otherwise, I remain convinced that signing a couple tough, high-motor defensive free-agent bigs who can give us 6.5 rebounds in 20 minutes will be enough. Achiuwa, Jock or Sochan and maybe Drummond too.

Yeah, I get that on paper there is length on this roster. But this team as constructed with proven NBA players, is small. Jaden is taking top percentile length from the 3 by moving to the 4, and we are down 2 of the bigs we did have. Joan and Rocco were here last year too. Even with Randle and Naz this team played smallish at times. We were no stout rebounding team.

I know there are moves to be made yet, and I like the names floated. Let's get two actual 4/5's please. Priority. Ideally one is good enough to start to keep Jaden at the 3 with Ayo as the sixth man.

TheFuture wrote: ↑Sat Jun 27, 2026 7:14 pm

AussieWolf3 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 27, 2026 7:03 pm I feel like I'm losing my mind.

Go look up the league's staying power forwards, Jaden and his body type wouldn't look out of place at all on that list. In fact guys like Giannis look more out of place than Jaden.

If you ask me, I'd be more in favor of upgrading POA at the SF spot cause I'm not entirely sold on Ayo there but I'm hopeful. Regardless I'm comfortable handing that duty off to him and letting Jaden work off the help side. You're most impactful defenders are almost always big for a reason, it's an easier position to impact the offense from and I really believe number 3 will thrive here

Jaden as PF isn't without some caveats and risk, but I think he'll excel, and for what it's worth he's a good and gritty rebounder when the game plan calls for it.

All that said they absolutely need legit depth at the forward position. Ant also has to start taking defense seriously again, and to be honest I think he will. I don't think it's a coincidence that his downward trend here started with Conley's role getting diminished after Randle's arrival.

There is just more consternation here than seems worthwhile to me

The issue isn't with Jaden at the 4. The issue is that the rest of our wings have either body types that are more 1/2 than 3/4, or are rookies. I hardly trust any of them guarding bigger wings, let alone any actual 4, nor rebounding the position. Behind both Rudy and Jaden, there is nobody proven.

I agree with this assessment, which is why they should and likely will bring in frontcourt depth. I also agree that we would be playing smaller small forwards than ideal, although lip is right about TJ. However having a slightly undersized 3 in Ayo who is still strong and has a 6'10" wingspan is worthwhile concession imo for finally putting Jaden and Ant --- and for that matter, LaMelo--- in a position to have their skills best utilized.

But honestly your statement is what confuses me about the conversation, why are we talking about who will be the starting PF when the real concern is at the SF position? If you're asking me if I think they should upgrade from Ayo here, then I would completely agree, but again I think he can be an average defender here.

AussieWolf3 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 27, 2026 8:18 pm

TheFuture wrote: ↑Sat Jun 27, 2026 7:14 pm

AussieWolf3 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 27, 2026 7:03 pm I feel like I'm losing my mind.

Go look up the league's staying power forwards, Jaden and his body type wouldn't look out of place at all on that list. In fact guys like Giannis look more out of place than Jaden.

If you ask me, I'd be more in favor of upgrading POA at the SF spot cause I'm not entirely sold on Ayo there but I'm hopeful. Regardless I'm comfortable handing that duty off to him and letting Jaden work off the help side. You're most impactful defenders are almost always big for a reason, it's an easier position to impact the offense from and I really believe number 3 will thrive here

Jaden as PF isn't without some caveats and risk, but I think he'll excel, and for what it's worth he's a good and gritty rebounder when the game plan calls for it.

All that said they absolutely need legit depth at the forward position. Ant also has to start taking defense seriously again, and to be honest I think he will. I don't think it's a coincidence that his downward trend here started with Conley's role getting diminished after Randle's arrival.

There is just more consternation here than seems worthwhile to me

The issue isn't with Jaden at the 4. The issue is that the rest of our wings have either body types that are more 1/2 than 3/4, or are rookies. I hardly trust any of them guarding bigger wings, let alone any actual 4, nor rebounding the position. Behind both Rudy and Jaden, there is nobody proven.

I agree with this assessment, which is why they should and likely will bring in frontcourt depth. I also agree that we would be playing smaller small forwards than ideal, although lip is right about TJ. However having a slightly undersized 3 in Ayo who is still strong and has a 6'10" wingspan is worthwhile concession imo for finally putting Jaden and Ant --- and for that matter, LaMelo--- in a position to have their skills best utilized.

But honestly your statement is what confuses me about the conversation, why are we talking about who will be the starting PF when the real concern is at the SF position? If you're asking me if I think they should upgrade from Ayo here, then I would completely agree, but again I think he can be an average defender here.

What confuses me here is that all of the talk was about Ayo potentially being our PG of the future, some saying he is best as a sixth man combo guard, and now people talking like he is fit to be a 3. I understand LaMelo has the size to be put on the worst offensive player 1-3, and even the 4 against some teams with Jaden being able to slide 1-4. Ayo is a 1,2. Ant is a 1,2.

I'd agree that who starts as a SF is a question. But only because the idea is moving Jaden from there. The real question is that by moving Jaden to the 4, it doesn't change the fact that we don't have anyone else on the roster who can play there, and nobody on the roster is actually best suited at the 3 either.

Let's just take OKC for example.

They run SGA, Wallace/Caruso, JDub, Chet, Hartenstein against us.

Who on this roster do you trust guarding JDub full-time if you have to put Jaden on Chet now? Ayo or Ant is now full-time on SGA and the other is on JDub.. I think both get eaten alive.

A couple of thoughts:

- If the BIG trade goes thru as currently constructed, Josh Green cannot be combined with another player in a trade for a 2 month period. So if you want to do any funny business with Josh Green for someone that makes more than his salary, it HAS to be part of the BIG trade. I am confident this is one of the options open to TC.

- There are more FA BIGs out there that would be just fine to beef up the front court than we are mentioning here. I am sure TC is sifting through all the options.

- While our expectation is Joan will backup Rudy, his game is growing and he has the ability to guard PFs. He can play along side a C, especially one that can hit a 3, such as Vucevic, Landale or Love, among others. TC has options.

- SloMo is clearly an option to add depth, and is probably the most likely name we know of that will be added.

- TC loves to get his ducks in a row early when he can. I expect we'll learn very quickly after July 1st about what is going down.

- June 29th will be an interesting date and might provide some insight -- that is when team options must be exercised for Julian Phillips and Enrique Freeman (TW).

TheFuture wrote: ↑Sat Jun 27, 2026 8:40 pm

AussieWolf3 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 27, 2026 8:18 pm

TheFuture wrote: ↑Sat Jun 27, 2026 7:14 pm

The issue isn't with Jaden at the 4. The issue is that the rest of our wings have either body types that are more 1/2 than 3/4, or are rookies. I hardly trust any of them guarding bigger wings, let alone any actual 4, nor rebounding the position. Behind both Rudy and Jaden, there is nobody proven.

I agree with this assessment, which is why they should and likely will bring in frontcourt depth. I also agree that we would be playing smaller small forwards than ideal, although lip is right about TJ. However having a slightly undersized 3 in Ayo who is still strong and has a 6'10" wingspan is worthwhile concession imo for finally putting Jaden and Ant --- and for that matter, LaMelo--- in a position to have their skills best utilized.

But honestly your statement is what confuses me about the conversation, why are we talking about who will be the starting PF when the real concern is at the SF position? If you're asking me if I think they should upgrade from Ayo here, then I would completely agree, but again I think he can be an average defender here.

What confuses me here is that all of the talk was about Ayo potentially being our PG of the future, some saying he is best as a sixth man combo guard, and now people talking like he is fit to be a 3. I understand LaMelo has the size to be put on the worst offensive player 1-3, and even the 4 against some teams with Jaden being able to slide 1-4. Ayo is a 1,2. Ant is a 1,2.

I'd agree that who starts as a SF is a question. But only because the idea is moving Jaden from there. The real question is that by moving Jaden to the 4, it doesn't change the fact that we don't have anyone else on the roster who can play there, and nobody on the roster is actually best suited at the 3 either.

Let's just take OKC for example.

They run SGA, Wallace/Caruso, JDub, Chet, Hartenstein against us.

Who on this roster do you trust guarding JDub full-time if you have to put Jaden on Chet now? Ayo or Ant is now full-time on SGA and the other is on JDub.. I think both get eaten alive.

Honestly that's super well put and I don't have an answer, and to be honest it points to my biggest concern cause I didn't want Ayo to be a starter, but weirdly enough I feel better about him being given a role with less responsibility now.

As we all know, other moves will have to be made and there is no doubt that frontcourt help is on the way in some fashion. I don't think any will be big splashes but one way or another they'll be consequential.

What the Ball trade did was put the onus on Ant and Jaden. Ok Ant, you don't have to be the point guard anymore, are you gonna dial in on defense now? Ok Jaden the PF position is wide open for you to be a terror on the backline, that's what you want, so you can be more consistent on offense, are you gonna keep your emotions in check?

I like to look at things within a bandwidth of possibilities. It isn't unreasonable to me that all of Jaden, Ant and Ayo, with an off-season of preparation, planning and practice can achieve these version of themselves that the team needs. It's unlikely that all three reach the most elite version of that but perhaps enough buy in to be a top 5 defense?