Minnesota Sports Forum

papalrep wrote:I watched Kentucky. Towns in foul trouble early. I know they overmatch everybody, but damn, WCS looks good

WildWolf2813 wrote:

Ricky is simply not good enough to not take Mudiay. Ricky's not a top 10 PG. He can still be a top 10 PG, but taking Mudiay would give us 2 chances at getting a top 10 PG instead of 1. Ricky can't keep playing 40 minutes because he doesn't have a backup. Drop him down to 30, give Mudiay 18 and let them play together for a 5 minute stretch a game to get Mudiay up to at least 23. Mudiay isn't taking his spot next year. He may not take it the year after, but Flip can't afford to pass on Mudiay because of Ricky and have him become a star for someone else and we be left with Ricky. The minutes are there for Mudiay and then he will either get too good where you have to trade him or Ricky or he won't pan out in which case you'll still have Ricky.

Drafting Mudiay is not giving up on Ricky. It's giving him some competition to get better or get replaced. If he's good enough he won't have anything to worry about. Flip doesn't have to pick his guys and then never draft anyone who could be better than them at their position. You always try to get better and that adds competition to the team where if you don't get better you get beat out. You set us back even further if you pass on a star because of Ricky. These guys don't become stars in year 1 and most even in year 2. That gives Ricky 2 years to get better or get replaced by Mudiay. There's no reason drafting Mudiay means trading Ricky now because that makes us worse in the short term by again leaving us no backup PG and worse long term if Mudiay doesn't pan out which some of these guys don't. That's why you can't pick one from day one and trade the other. You have to let the natural competition play out for a year or two and then decide.

If we won the lottery next year and a SF is the clear top guy, you take him and move either him or Wiggins over to SG pending which one can play it better. You can only draft for fit when when the guys on the board are in the same tier. Otherwise if you have a shot at a top tier guy you take him and figure the rest out later. He'll either clearly need more minutes because he is so good or you don't take as big of a hit if he fails because you have other competent options already on the roster. I'm thankful we still had Love when D Will couldn't hack it. Imagine if we would have cleared the way for D Will just because he was a high pick who had an incumbent at his spot. That would have been a disaster and that's why you don't trade Ricky immediately just because you draft Mudiay. You let it play out and it will naturally tell you the right move to make in 2-3 years.

Lip- you ARE giving up on Ricky if you draft Mudiay. If you have to put your CORNERSTONE on notice, you don't have a cornerstone, If you're drafting a guy in the top 5 to merely be a backup, that's a waste of a pick and it goes along with this team's tendency to overpay for marginal pieces. Show me where these good teams have top 5 picks as backup PG's. If I'm trying to put pressure on my cornerstone then I don't have enough faith in being able to live and die with my decision. All you're saying in a roundabout way Lip is that you don't have enough faith in Ricky, and that's fine, but then move him if you don't have that faith and remove all doubt and but the team on Mudiay's back. If he needs a backup PG, he has 2 high 2nd rounders. Draft one there. Why is that so hard for Flip to figure out?

While we'll be too busy questioning our cornerstones every year, we'll be trotting out crap at nearly every other position. If that's Flip's goal, he's doing a great job of making sure we never see another playoff game.

What's your plan if we deal Ricky and Mudiay doesn't become as good? How do you explain to your fans if you trade down and Mudiay becomes a star that you didn't take because he wasn't going to get 30+ MPG's right out of the gate? I don't see why a rookie changes Ricky's immediate future with the team. Is your goal to get worse next year because I can almost guarantee Mudiay won't be better than Ricky next year, but in 2-3 years he absolutely could.

A top 5 pick doesn't have to start and play starter's minutes immediately just because they are a top 5 pick. Towns, Okafor and Russell aren't playing 30 MPG's next year if we get any of them. We have way too many players in those positions to give a majority of the minutes to a rookie. Does that mean we shouldn't draft any of them? It makes zero sense to fully commit to a rookie and trade a competent player just to make sure the rookie gets an extra 10 MPG's. None of them are surefire stars. None of them are currently all-around players. I don't see how it makes sense to go for broke when you can hedge your bet. Drafting Mudiay isn't an indictment of Ricky. It's a hedge that can land us another star but not set us back if he doesn't pan out.

WildWolf2813 wrote:

What's your plan if we deal Ricky and Mudiay doesn't become as good? How do you explain to your fans if you trade down and Mudiay becomes a star that you didn't take because he wasn't going to get 30+ MPG's right out of the gate? I don't see why a rookie changes Ricky's immediate future with the team. Is your goal to get worse next year because I can almost guarantee Mudiay won't be better than Ricky next year, but in 2-3 years he absolutely could.

A top 5 pick doesn't have to start and play starter's minutes immediately just because they are a top 5 pick. Towns, Okafor and Russell aren't playing 30 MPG's next year if we get any of them. We have way too many players in those positions to give a majority of the minutes to a rookie. Does that mean we shouldn't draft any of them? It makes zero sense to fully commit to a rookie and trade a competent player just to make sure the rookie gets an extra 10 MPG's. None of them are surefire stars. None of them are currently all-around players. I don't see how it makes sense to go for broke when you can hedge your bet. Drafting Mudiay isn't an indictment of Ricky. It's a hedge that can land us another star but not set us back if he doesn't pan out.

They didn't stop making point guards when Mudiay came along. Come next year there will be someone else you'll want.

The problem with hedging your bets is that you can use later picks to do that. You can stash players to do that. You don't draft in the top 5 to hedge your bets unless you have doubts on who you have. We're trading future firsts for backups, drafting projects who will get blocked even if they develop and now top 5 handcuffs for our cornerstones while our frontcourt still sucks? While our shooting remains horrible? We need to be a team, not a minor league breeding ground for whoever's looking for PG help.

And before we even discuss a potential Rubio vs. Mudiay debate, make no mistake, Flip's rooting for LaVine to be that guy who runs the team from the PG. There's no other reason or excuse for why LaVine still plays at PG besides the fact that Flip's too stubborn to let go of the dream of LaVine being the team's PG. So in reality, two guys would have to go in the event of a Mudiay draft pick because Flip's not playing LaVine at SG which means he wants Zach at the PG long term if he can help it.

BizarroJerry wrote:Kaminsky s interior d not so good this game.

papalrep wrote:I watched Kentucky. Towns in foul trouble early. I know they overmatch everybody, but damn, WCS looks good

Camden wrote:Ahhh, drafting for need vs drafting for talent. It's one of the cloudiest debates in all of sports. Funny, though, because teams usually combine both perspectives.

papalrep wrote:WioldWolf -- Flip's rooting for LaVine to be that guy who runs the team from the PG. There's no other reason or excuse for why LaVine still plays at PG besides the fact that Flip's too stubborn to let go of the dream of LaVine being the team's PG. So in reality, two guys would have to go in the event of a Mudiay draft pick because Flip's not playing LaVine at SG which means he wants Zach at the PG long term if he can help it.

Time for a new poll -- who thinks anything will get better with Flip running things?

Hicks123 wrote:What I can tell from watching this year is that we are 2-3 great players away from really making any noise. While I think Wiggins ends up a very nice player, Rubio, Martin, Pek, etc just don't cut it. Whoever we draft this year MUST be a top tier type of guy.