Minnesota Sports Forum

khans2k5 wrote:

Camden0916 wrote:And that's your opinion.

You're disregarding his mobility and ability to move his feet laterally, which is going to be why he can play the 4. The same goes for Cauley-Stein.

Towns runs the floor better than Okafor and likely has a better vertical as well. The only thing you're basing the athleticism comment on is that Towns runs with his shoulders high and has extremely big feet. The measureables will show the better athlete.

I'm basing it on he looks just as slow as Okafor out there. Quick and Towns don't belong in the same sentence and the combine will bear that out. His athleticism looks mechanical while Okafor's looks natural. WCS is a better athlete than Towns also. Take off the rose colored glasses and use the eye test instead of scouting reports to tell you how athletic he is. He doesn't look the part of the elite athlete he is made out to be. He has to run with his shoulders up or he'd tip over he's so top heavy. If he didn't have chicken legs he could run like a normal person.

I could care less if it looks mechanical or not. You're a big fan of Wiggins, no? He's not a "smooth" athlete in any sense of the word either, but his athletic ability is evident. I'm not comparing Towns to a freakish wing, but you're a blind man if you don't see Towns ability. WCS is the best big of the bunch if you want athleticism, but he shouldn't even be in this particular discussion because we're talking best prospect in the class.

"Take off the rose colored glasses" - You've said this to me on a number of occasions. It's a poor arguing method. I like Towns and you like Okafor, but don't be a snarky little bitch about it.

Camden0916 wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:

Camden0916 wrote:And that's your opinion.

You're disregarding his mobility and ability to move his feet laterally, which is going to be why he can play the 4. The same goes for Cauley-Stein.

Towns runs the floor better than Okafor and likely has a better vertical as well. The only thing you're basing the athleticism comment on is that Towns runs with his shoulders high and has extremely big feet. The measureables will show the better athlete.

I'm basing it on he looks just as slow as Okafor out there. Quick and Towns don't belong in the same sentence and the combine will bear that out. His athleticism looks mechanical while Okafor's looks natural. WCS is a better athlete than Towns also. Take off the rose colored glasses and use the eye test instead of scouting reports to tell you how athletic he is. He doesn't look the part of the elite athlete he is made out to be. He has to run with his shoulders up or he'd tip over he's so top heavy. If he didn't have chicken legs he could run like a normal person.

I could care less if it looks mechanical or not. You're a big fan of Wiggins, no? He's not a "smooth" athlete in any sense of the word either, but his athletic ability is evident. I'm not comparing Towns to a freakish wing, but you're a blind man if you don't see Towns ability. WCS is the best big of the bunch if you want athleticism, but he shouldn't even be in this particular discussion because we're talking best prospect in the class.

"Take off the rose colored glasses" - You've said this to me on a number of occasions. It's a poor arguing method. I like Towns and you like Okafor, but don't be a snarky little bitch about it.

I say it because when you pick your guy you start giving them credit for parts of their game they don't deserve yet. Case in point going bonkers for Stauskas saying his bulk up and athletic ability should help him be a decent defender at the next level. How's that working out? The same goes for Town's jump shot and so called great mobility. I'm not making up parts to Okafor's game to make him look like an all-around player out of the gate like you are with Towns. Post game, mid range jumper, rim protection, rebounds, good FT shooter, ability to play multiple positions, great athlete. That's how you've described Towns and yet he hasn't cracked the top spot for a reason. Multiple of those don't exist on a translatable level to the pros yet. Those are the rose colored glasses.

I think you are doing Towns a disservice if you put him at the 4. I don't like his agility to cover the stretch 4s. His offensive game right now isn't too far from the rim. He is a natural C.

Ahh, the "in your face" comment regarding Stauskas. Let's backtrack, though. My selling points on Stauskas were that he's a knockdown shooter and has the ability to create for others at the SG position. Defense was never considered a strength and I never made him out to be a good defender. I said he'd be serviceable there. He was always an offensive player from my stance, though it's been quite the disappointing rookie season for Nik. I've already admitted to this a number of times on this board.

Nothing I've said about Towns is untrue to this point. He does have a mid-range jumper, and has shown it in games albeit a small sample size. Look no further than his FT% and form to see the potential there. Or if you'd like specific plays that come to mind that you can YouTube, try the step-back against LSU and the baseline jab step against Auburn.

His defense is very good. I've seen those who oppose Towns say that he's benefitting from his teammates and they're hiding his mistakes. Sorry, but that's not entirely true. Everyone at Kentucky benefits from Towns and WCS. When your bigs shut down the painted area like they do, the entire team defense is rewarded. And Towns has shown his ability to bang inside with other bigs (not just the 6'8 guys you say he's played against) while being able to step out and guard in space. Go watch him work against Bobby Portis and Jarrell Martin. Not to mention Towns is arguably the 2nd best big in the nation at guarding the P&R with his teammate being No. 1.

I've seen you make the comment that Towns just destroying smaller opposition and that he'll struggle offensively at the next level. If you dive into his post moves, he's got two legitimate "go-to" moves on the block in a drop step and a hook, both of which he can finish with either hand. Watch the games. He's a skilled big, not just a 7'0 lengthy guy beating up on 6'8 guys as you'd make it sound.

Camden wrote:My intrigue with Stanley Johnson is very real. He's a damn man child.

How about the reincarnation of Lebron James? http://www.slamonline.com/college-hs/college/reggie-miller-called-stanley-johnson-the-reincarnation-of-lebron-james/

I think Lyles should be a consideration if we end up with the 5th pick as a stretch 4. WCS, Lyles and Johnson would be my top 3 in no order at #5. He looks like a well rounded offensive player and he's had to play out of position all year.

I've said before I don't trust anyone with a neck tattoo, but I wouldn't hate it if we took WCS. Been very impressed the last few games.

Camden wrote:Ahh, the "in your face" comment regarding Stauskas. Let's backtrack, though. My selling points on Stauskas were that he's a knockdown shooter and has the ability to create for others at the SG position. Defense was never considered a strength and I never made him out to be a good defender. I said he'd be serviceable there. He was always an offensive player from my stance, though it's been quite the disappointing rookie season for Nik. I've already admitted to this a number of times on this board.

Nothing I've said about Towns is untrue to this point. He does have a mid-range jumper, and has shown it in games albeit a small sample size. Look no further than his FT% and form to see the potential there. Or if you'd like specific plays that come to mind that you can YouTube, try the step-back against LSU and the baseline jab step against Auburn.

His defense is very good. I've seen those who oppose Towns say that he's benefitting from his teammates and they're hiding his mistakes. Sorry, but that's not entirely true. Everyone at Kentucky benefits from Towns and WCS. When your bigs shut down the painted area like they do, the entire team defense is rewarded. And Towns has shown his ability to bang inside with other bigs (not just the 6'8 guys you say he's played against) while being able to step out and guard in space. Go watch him work against Bobby Portis and Jarrell Martin. Not to mention Towns is arguably the 2nd best big in the nation at guarding the P&R with his teammate being No. 1.

I've seen you make the comment that Towns just destroying smaller opposition and that he'll struggle offensively at the next level. If you dive into his post moves, he's got two legitimate "go-to" moves on the block in a drop step and a hook, both of which he can finish with either hand. Watch the games. He's a skilled big, not just a 7'0 lengthy guy beating up on 6'8 guys as you'd make it sound.

I would say that many of the examples above are exactly what some are challenging you on. Like, "he does have a mid-range jumper". Meh, he certainly has made a few, as you say, but that is not something he shows with any consistency. Heck, Rubio has made some 3's....doesn't make it a strength. My guess is that it is because that part of his game is not as strong as his post play...which is why I have always considered him a center and not PF. To date, he has certainly shown (at least from his play), that he is most confident making offensive plays with his back to the basket.

And to say he will be a good shooter because of his FT%? Is there really any correlation? I can show you a ton of guys in the NBA that are 80%+ FT shooters, but shoot horrendously from the field. My expectation for Towns would be to be an efficient big, but most of that coming from 10 ft and in. Becoming a great % shooter would be a bonus.

While he is a great help defender, there are at least a couple guys on his own team I feel are better man defenders, including WCS and Lyles. There were a couple individual plays today where Lyles played great man defense, forcing a tough up-and-under shot, and Towns swept in for the block. Now, Towns gets credit for the big play, but Lyles created the opportunity with great man defense. This is the type of stuff that I think makes it harder to determine if he will stand out on his own once he is the defensive centerpiece. It is not at all his fault, but the fact that there are so many solid defenders on his team make it tough to analyse his potential.

All that said, I certainly see his potential. But like many, I think some of the skills highlighted to date are a bit premature. I wouldn't hate to see him in a Wolves uniform.

And like someone else said, Lyles is intriguing. Not sure I want him at 5, but if you could pick up a later pick (ahem...Payne...ahem), he is certainly intriguing. Booker has also looked great at times today. I think of him as just a shooter, but he made a couple nice aggressive drives to the basket.

Wasn't really impressed with Towns vs Cincinnati. He had great position on a few plays and missed some close range buckets. Hope he bounces back. His offensive game isn't on par with Okafor's. I wonder if Okafor's defense would look better playing next to Stien.

*sniffs the air* ahhhh the smell of civil discourse in the air. Disagreeing and being disagreeable are two different things.

Now onto the right opinion on the draft. Okafor IMO is and will always be a 5, ie. not being able to guard any PFs looking through the West I don't see 1 PF he could matchup against. However someone made a good point earlier that paired with Gorgui, G in theory could play the perimeter post player when paired next to Okafor.

Towns I see him as being able to defend several PFs in the West as well as guarding the Center position less succesfully now but will get better as his body reaches equilibrium. I do think Towns is athletic, but he's not a great athlete. Would you say he is a better or worse athlete than LaMarcus Aldridge? I like that comparison in terms of similar athleticism (off the top of my head) as he doesn't strike you as really athletic or unathletic. I mean everyone is going to struggle in some sense when trying to match up with Griffin, Ibaka, Davis, Favors, Boogie? I don't think thats a reason to say he can/can't guard the PF position.