News from the Orlando Bubble

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

Never forget when Flip traded Thaddeus Young for a 38-year old Kevin Garnett, and then a first-round pick for the already-struggling Adreian Payne. I think I hate those series of moves more than almost any other in Wolves history because they were done out of emotion and not logic.

[thedoper]

We gave Rosas a bouquet of flowers for how he's handled Naz Reid.

Meanwhile Luguentz Dort is out here making himself famous.

It would be nice to overachieve on a few moves every once and a while. Are KG and Pek (maybe Love?) the only moves in the franchise's history that we could say were overachievements for the risk v reward? Its insane.

Zach LaVine vastly outplayed his draft slot.

I wouldnt say vastly. A starter at 14 is a good pick, it happens quite a bit though.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

We gave Rosas a bouquet of flowers for how he's handled Naz Reid.

Meanwhile Luguentz Dort is out here making himself famous.

It would be nice to overachieve on a few moves every once and a while. Are KG and Pek (maybe Love?) the only moves in the franchise's history that we could say were overachievements for the risk v reward? Its insane.

Zach LaVine vastly outplayed his draft slot.

I wouldnt say vastly. A starter at 14 is a good pick, it happens quite a bit though.

He was an above average starter during the second half of his second year and through his third year before being cut short due to injury. And while it happens sometimes, I'd say players picked at 14 tend to be bench players or useless a lot more often.

[thedoper]

We gave Rosas a bouquet of flowers for how he's handled Naz Reid.

Meanwhile Luguentz Dort is out here making himself famous.

It would be nice to overachieve on a few moves every once and a while. Are KG and Pek (maybe Love?) the only moves in the franchise's history that we could say were overachievements for the risk v reward? Its insane.

Zach LaVine vastly outplayed his draft slot.

I wouldnt say vastly. A starter at 14 is a good pick, it happens quite a bit though.

He was an above average starter during the second half of his second year and through his third year before being cut short due to injury. And while it happens sometimes, I'd say players picked at 14 tend to be bench players or useless a lot more often.

Ok i guess it depends on how you define vastly. Good pick for us, got us Butler.

[KG4Ever]

Never forget when Flip traded Thaddeus Young for a 38-year old Kevin Garnett, and then a first-round pick for the already-struggling Adreian Payne. I think I hate those series of moves more than almost any other in Wolves history because they were done out of emotion and not logic.

Its funny that you attack the concept of emotional trades when you were very high on two trades that I consider emotional trades.

First, you absolutely love the DLO trade. I just find it strange bringing in a poor defensive player (albeit a replacement "AllStar" in the Eastern Conference) who is on a max deal to try to placate Towns, who is still signed for several years and has publicly committed to this franchise.

You also, loved the Butler trade. I concur that Butler is a great player, however, I view the trade as Thibs squandering assets for short term wins to try to save his job as I don't think Thibs has ever had a winning season without the "Great" Jimmy Butler on his roster.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

Never forget when Flip traded Thaddeus Young for a 38-year old Kevin Garnett, and then a first-round pick for the already-struggling Adreian Payne. I think I hate those series of moves more than almost any other in Wolves history because they were done out of emotion and not logic.

Its funny that you attack the concept of emotional trades when you were very high on two trades that I consider emotional trades.

First, you absolutely love the DLO trade. I just find it strange bringing in a poor defensive player (albeit a replacement "AllStar" in the Eastern Conference) who is on a max deal to try to placate Towns, who is still signed for several years and has publicly committed to this franchise.

You also, loved the Butler trade. I concur that Butler is a great player, however, I view the trade as Thibs squandering assets for short term wins to try to save his job as I don't think Thibs has ever had a winning season without the "Great" Jimmy Butler on his roster.

I'm typically in favor of trades that land the best player in the deal, especially when the cost is reasonable or even at a discount for whatever reason.

All of the above applies in those two specific trades. Both Jimmy Butler and D'Angelo Russell are, without question, the best players in those respective trades.

The cost for Butler was an injured Zach LaVine, what looked to be a bust in Kris Dunn, and swapping first-round picks. Butler was coming off of an All-NBA season with two seasons of team control left on his deal. While I would have preferred the Wolves to move Andrew Wiggins in that deal, I feel confident saying that trade was great value for Minnesota on its face and could have been even better had the Justin Patton pick worked out. No emotions are needed here as this was objectively a good trade for both teams even in hindsight.

Fast forward a couple years and Wiggins' value had depreciated to a new low. The speculation was that it would take at least one first-round pick just to incentivize another team to take him and his max contract on to their books. That's negative value. And then there's D'Angelo Russell, who despite his faults led the Brooklyn Nets to the playoffs in the campaign prior where he finished second in Most Improved Player voting and was named an All-Star at the age of 23. By almost any definition, that's trending up. We can assume that Russell was worth at least one first-round pick by himself. So, we have two players here heading in different directions in their careers with very different values on their heads. All it took to essentially dump Wiggins and add Russell was one protected first-round pick and a second-round pick? That's all? Minnesota removed arguably the worst contract in basketball and added a youthful All-Star at a position of need that also happens to fit very well with their best player on and off the court. This trade checks all the boxes. Value. Reasoning. Fit.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Never forget when Flip traded Thaddeus Young for a 38-year old Kevin Garnett, and then a first-round pick for the already-struggling Adreian Payne. I think I hate those series of moves more than almost any other in Wolves history because they were done out of emotion and not logic.

Wasn't the Garnett deal also done for pocketbook reasons?

I remember going to an early Garnett game (v2.0) with some kids. One of them got nauseous from the crappy seats I bought up top. So before we left the stadium... I checked with Guest Services if they could accommodate us anywhere else.

NOPE.

"Any other time, we'd be able to put you anywhere, but I'm sorry. KG's return has been great for business." The place was sold out for a few games at least...

[AbeVigodaLive]

Never forget when Flip traded Thaddeus Young for a 38-year old Kevin Garnett, and then a first-round pick for the already-struggling Adreian Payne. I think I hate those series of moves more than almost any other in Wolves history because they were done out of emotion and not logic.

You also, loved the Butler trade. I concur that Butler is a great player, however, I view the trade as Thibs squandering assets for short term wins to try to save his job as I don't think Thibs has ever had a winning season without the "Great" Jimmy Butler on his roster.

1. To be fair, the Bulls went 62 - 20 without Butler... and then 50 - 16 with Butler playing a whopping 359 minutes the next season.

2. We'll rehash the Butler trade forever. And that's what makes message boards fun. I was definitely on board with it at the time.
- 13 straight seasons out of the playoffs
- 2 future superstars (#1 picks) on the roster (a position-defining big and an athletic wing) on their way to "earning" max contracts
- And then you add an All NBA 3rd teamer in his prime to the mix.

EVERY NBA team would have collectively creamed in its figurative pants for that trio. So the team got rid of assets... that's exactly why a team collects assets.

Things went haywire once Butler was here. And the trade was an epic failure at the end. But...

1. It was a good trade at the time for the worst franchise in sports.
2. It is VERY likely the Wolves would be at 16 seasons (and counting) without the playoffs even if they had kept all those assets.


[Note: Along the same lines... many consider the Marbury trade a bad one 25 years later. But in the moment... when it happened... and until things went south for off-the-court reasons (much like the Butler trade)... it was heralded as a great savvy move. It's funny how both franchise-defining terrible trades were actually pretty similar in many ways.]

[Wolvesfan21]

You got Jimmy out here thriving in Miami, Vanterpool can't get this team to play D. Thibs couldn't get them to play D. Rosas can't construct a team that most teams have figured out how to mimic.


At a certain point, it might just be that this team is building around the wrong guys. Russell and Towns gotta be watching bubble basketball and wondering why they can't win.

I'm in the camp that an actual tank job happened last season. Heck in the Jordan doc the Bulls were trying to tank and not let Jordan play, coming back from injury. They DIDN'T want to make the playoffs. He said so.

To think this is not happening by the bad teams is naive. Now we can debate wether or not that is ideal or not to creating a championship contender or not. But it does happen. And sure if the players were better they wouldn't let a tank happen either, that's another argument too. But I am quite positive the Wolves tanked last season.

[Wolvesfan21]

We didn't need Jimmy Butler. He wins too much.

I said he'll never win a Championship in his career and I'll stand by that. He's simply not good enough, plus he is going downhill on the wrong side of 30. Getting rid of Butler SOONER was the biggest mistake.