Next Moves for the Wolves

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

Would you be interested in lavine and dunn coming back here?

teague+culver for lavine+dunn

Neither team makes that move for reasons that go beyond basketball.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

DLo's Net Rating through the years:

15-16: -11.7
16-17: -9.1
17-18: -7.2
18-19: +.2
19-10: -16.0

He seems a little LaVine-esque in that he has some sparkle with decent shooting/scoring/assisting numbers, yet his team is often better with him on the bench. In fact, Brooklyn hasn't really skipped a beat without him, and it's not because of Irving.

[Coolbreeze44]

Anybody thinking Russell would make an appreciable difference on our team is out of their mind. All it would do is guarantee a few more years of futility. But what's a few more years, right? Wolves fans should be horrified by this possibility.

[crazy-canuck [enjin:18955461]]

Dlo
Bogdanovic
FVV

are probably the only youngish guys available. Id also take Dinwiddie if the Nets decide to roll more with Irving.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

[Insert offensive comment towards anyone that disagrees with me]. Making a trade for D'Angelo Russell is about a lot more than just basketball. We'd be ignorant to ignore the relationship he has with Karl-Anthony Towns. That tidbit absolutely plays a factor in deciding what Minnesota's future will be. He's also already locked into a new contract, which bodes well for a franchise -- and state -- that tends to struggle like hell to bring in All-Star talent.

Basketball-wise, Russell would be a bandaid for a lot of what ails this team. He's a terrific ball-handler and shot-creator. Check. He's great in screen-and-roll game. Check. He's a legitimately good volume three-point shooter. Check. He's good with and without the basketball. Check. He just does a lot of things well that this Wolves team as constructed does not.

Is Russell a good defender? No, not really, but I think it's time we realize that you can have a good defensive team even with a turnstile in the lineup -- especially at guard. The Warriors did it with Steph Curry. The Celtics did it with Isaiah Thomas and Kyrie Irving. The Hornets did it with Kemba Walker. The Nuggets are currently doing it with Jamal Murray. The layout is there, but it's up to the coaching to figure that out.

The Wolves are still in the process of finding cornerstones that they can build around. Even if you think Andrew Wiggins is on his way to becoming an All-Star, this team still needs one more dynamo to ascend towards winning basketball. Routes available for that piece are limited and Minnesota needs to take their shot pretty soon.

[kekgeek]

Im really torn on the Dlo thing.

Pro:
-Would be by far our best shot creator
-Young and still can improve
-Proved last year can be the best player on a playoff team (Ala in the East)
-I would say one of the most important things is he is really good thing with KAT and with Kat getting frustrated it could be huge for him to have another great friend on the team.
- Are the Wolves more appealing to young players and what pull does Kat and Dlo crew have around the league to add more talented players. Like Jimmy was a complete ass, but he helped bring in Teague, Taj, Rose and had people like Irving wanting to play with the Wolves. Would the combo of Dlo and Kat have some type of pull around the league
- Super hard for the wolves to add young talent and Dlo is a young talent
- Hasn't even come close to playing with a player as talented as KAT, so does his game go up a notch if it is a Kat and Dlo PnR (Im not counting the 5ish games with Curry or Washed up Kobe)
- In this new system the wolves run a shit ton of PnR with drive and kick, Dlo is very good at that, one of the biggest problems with the wolves is outside of Wiggins other teams don't have to worry about a premiter player putting consistent pressure on the defense. Dlo can do that, now to what degree who knows.

Cons:
-Max Contract for not consistent Max Production
- Has been a negative net player in 4 of his 5 years (even though he was positive in his playoff year)
- Still thoughts of immaturity
- This is sort of the Wolves team going forward with making this deal
- What happens to Wiggins if he becomes 3rd fiddle, Im not saying we should make deals that concern Wiggins but that is what the Wolves need to ask themselves what is Wiggins and what is he when another ball dominate player comes on the team. Does he become an above average 3rd fiddle or does he become a massive net negative again that doesn't do anything again.
-Has been a poor defender in the NBA

Conclusion:
- It all matters what we have to give up. If it is Cov and Teague with no pick. I pull the trigger. And risk the upside of Dlo and Kat
- If it is Cov, Culver and Gorgui, I still probably pull the trigger.
If it is Gorgui, Teague and unprotected 1st, I pull the trigger.
If it is Cov, Teague and unprotected 1st, I pass
If it is Cov, Culver and Teague, I probably pass also but super close
If it is Teague, Culver and Okogie, I do it in a heart beat (don't think this is realistic)

*I want to put in a note, I also would love to see what Cov value is around the league. I listened to the Ringer NBA show with KOC and Vernon today and KOC thinks there is a chance that Cov might be the best player on the market during the Trade Deadline, He thinks Wolves could get a young player and multiple picks for Cov. The thing is how good is the young player and how late are those 1st both might be totally irrelevant.

This is the most torn I have been on a trade idea in a long time, I can see both sides, in the end I probably lean gamble on Dlo especially if we are giving up no picks. Super unlikely the wolves move up in the lottery so Wolves still taking shots at a dart board to get good if the Wolves don't make a trade.

Once again super torn on it.

[kekgeek]

[Insert offensive comment towards anyone that disagrees with me]. Making a trade for D'Angelo Russell is about a lot more than just basketball. We'd be ignorant to ignore the relationship he has with Karl-Anthony Towns. That tidbit absolutely plays a factor in deciding what Minnesota's future will be. He's also already locked into a new contract, which bodes well for a franchise -- and state -- that tends to struggle like hell to bring in All-Star talent.

Basketball-wise, Russell would be a bandaid for a lot of what ails this team. He's a terrific ball-handler and shot-creator. Check. He's great in screen-and-roll game. Check. He's a legitimately good volume three-point shooter. Check. He's good with and without the basketball. Check. He just does a lot of things well that this Wolves team as constructed does not.

Is Russell a good defender? No, not really, but I think it's time we realize that you can have a good defensive team even with a turnstile in the lineup -- especially at guard. The Warriors did it with Steph Curry. The Celtics did it with Isaiah Thomas and Kyrie Irving. The Hornets did it with Kemba Walker. The Nuggets are currently doing it with Jamal Murray. The layout is there, but it's up to the coaching to figure that out.

The Wolves are still in the process of finding cornerstones that they can build around. Even if you think Andrew Wiggins is on his way to becoming an All-Star, this team still needs one more dynamo to ascend towards winning basketball. Routes available for that piece are limited and Minnesota needs to take their shot pretty soon.

Why did you have to do a breakdown coping multiple of my takes when I was typing out my thoughts, Haha.

Lets just say we make the trade of Cov and Teague and a top 4 protected 1st.

Wolves would be looking at wolves future pieces.
Dlo, Kat, Wiggins, Culver, Okogie, KBD, Naz, Nowell, Layman min guys to fill out the rest of the bench and every pick from 2021 on. But little to no cap space for the next 4 years (gain a little bit with Gorugi coming off the bench in 2021 but then Okogie becomes extension eligible what I have no idea what he will make but he will get a little raise)

Is that better than not making a trade
Kat, Wiggins, Culver, okogie, KBD, Naz, Nowell, Cov (still an asset to add young players less talented than Dlo and possible more draft picks) more cap space to fill specific bench needs (Teague contract) , every pick going forward.

When I lay it out like that, I say fuck it and lets gamble baby, it is on Rosas to find diamonds in the rough to fill out a young talented bench.(What he could be doing with Layman, Nowell, Naz and a thibs roll over in KBD).

[Lipoli390]

DLo's Net Rating through the years:

15-16: -11.7
16-17: -9.1
17-18: -7.2
18-19: +.2
19-10: -16.0

He seems a little LaVine-esque in that he has some sparkle with decent shooting/scoring/assisting numbers, yet his team is often better with him on the bench. In fact, Brooklyn hasn't really skipped a beat without him, and it's not because of Irving.

Those numbers underscore why I would urge Rosas not to pursue Russell. I might think differently if he were a lights-out (40%) 3-point shooter. As a career 35% 3-point shooter, Russell doesn't fit that bill and he's right at his career average this season. He's a poor defender and sub-par athlete and I'm not convinced he's a particularly fierce competitor. Yet, I still might think differently if he weren't on a max contract. But adding another max deal in the form of Russell strikes me as a bad idea that won't put this team on a path to being the sustainable championship contender Rosas wants it to be.

There's no quick fix. Our front office is either going to build this thing around KAT methodically with smart decisions over the next several years and effectively player development or it's not going to get done. Rosas said he wants to focus on player development. Well, then let's see this franchise focus on developing Okogie, Culver, Layman, Nowell, Martin and Reid between now and next season. We've only had these guys in the organization around 4 months and Nowell hasn't even been given a chance at the NBA level yet. Let's trade Teague and Covington for draft assets and expiring contracts and then let's see what we can parley those assets and our own picks into next June. In the meantime, let's give Nowell significant NBA minutes and continue playing Culver and Okogie. Martin should continue to get some minutes as well. Heck, I'd give McLaughlin some more minutes with the team.

If this organization demonstrates that it can develop young players and our front office makes good draft-day decisions like the top NBA organizations typically do, then this team can become a top 4 contender in the West in a couple years. If not, then the organization will need to move KAT in the 4th year of his deal and start from scratch. That's the path. Any notion that the Wolves are going to transform the fate of this team by trading valuable assets for Russell and his max contract is, in my view, the product of wishful thinking in response to understandable frustration.

[kekgeek]

DLo's Net Rating through the years:

15-16: -11.7
16-17: -9.1
17-18: -7.2
18-19: +.2
19-10: -16.0

He seems a little LaVine-esque in that he has some sparkle with decent shooting/scoring/assisting numbers, yet his team is often better with him on the bench. In fact, Brooklyn hasn't really skipped a beat without him, and it's not because of Irving.

Those numbers underscore why I would urge Rosas not to pursue Russell. I might think differently if he were a lights-out (40%) 3-point shooter. As a career 35% 3-point shooter, Russell doesn't fit that bill and he's right at his career average this season. He's a poor defender and sub-par athlete and I'm not convinced he's a particularly fierce competitor. Yet, I still might think differently if he weren't on a max contract. But adding another max deal in the form of Russell strikes me as a bad idea that won't put this team on a path to being the sustainable championship contender Rosas wants it to be.

There's no quick fix. Our front office is either going to build this thing around KAT methodically with smart decisions over the next several years and effectively player development or it's not going to get done. Rosas said he wants to focus on player development. Well, then let's see this franchise focus on developing Okogie, Culver, Layman, Nowell, Martin and Reid between now and next season. We've only had these guys in the organization around 4 months and Nowell hasn't even been given a chance at the NBA level yet. Let's trade Teague and Covington for draft assets and expiring contracts and then let's see what we can parley those assets and our own picks into next June. In the meantime, let's give Nowell significant NBA minutes and continue playing Culver and Okogie. Martin should continue to get some minutes as well. Heck, I'd give McLaughlin some more minutes with the team.

If this organization demonstrates that it can develop young players and our front office makes good draft-day decisions like the top NBA organizations typically do, then this team can become a top 4 contender in the West in a couple years. If not, then the organization will need to move KAT in the 4th year of his deal and start from scratch. That's the path. Any notion that the Wolves are going to transform the fate of this team by trading valuable assets for Russell and his max contract is, in my view, the product of wishful thinking in response to understandable frustration.

I don't disagree with anything you posted (Even though Im not sure I agree with it im torn) couldn't you say we can still be on the developmental path if we didn't give up any of our young guys (Don't know how possible that is). Couldn't in theory Dlo could grow with the young core. We could be still looking at a young team in.

PG: Dlo/Nowell
SG: Culver/Okogie
SF: Wiggins/Layman
PF: KBD
C: Towns/Naz

Still a really young team with developmental pieces. Once again Im still not sure what I would do because it is really close to me. I mean it could be Im worried that the Wolves still would need to hit on multiple unknowns in draft picks in the next 2 years and they have to be good right away for KAT to not ask out.

My thoughts worst case scenario if we trade for Dlo is we are a lower tier playoff team for 4 years and we start all the way over in 4 years with all the cap space in the world and all draft capital.

Worst case not making the trade is we never make the playoffs with Kat and we trade him in 2/3 years when he forces his way out (Could get lucky/good and hit a stud pick and all of a sudden Wolves draft the next stud and are title contenders. Still could do that with the Dlo trade though).

I legit don't know it is just a counter argument.

[Coolbreeze44]

Im really torn on the Dlo thing.

Pro:
-Would be by far our best shot creator
-Young and still can improve
-Proved last year can be the best player on a playoff team (Ala in the East)
-I would say one of the most important things is he is really good thing with KAT and with Kat getting frustrated it could be huge for him to have another great friend on the team.
- Are the Wolves more appealing to young players and what pull does Kat and Dlo crew have around the league to add more talented players. Like Jimmy was a complete ass, but he helped bring in Teague, Taj, Rose and had people like Irving wanting to play with the Wolves. Would the combo of Dlo and Kat have some type of pull around the league
- Super hard for the wolves to add young talent and Dlo is a young talent
- Hasn't even come close to playing with a player as talented as KAT, so does his game go up a notch if it is a Kat and Dlo PnR (Im not counting the 5ish games with Curry or Washed up Kobe)
- In this new system the wolves run a shit ton of PnR with drive and kick, Dlo is very good at that, one of the biggest problems with the wolves is outside of Wiggins other teams don't have to worry about a premiter player putting consistent pressure on the defense. Dlo can do that, now to what degree who knows.

Cons:
-Max Contract for not consistent Max Production
- Has been a negative net player in 4 of his 5 years (even though he was positive in his playoff year)
- Still thoughts of immaturity
- This is sort of the Wolves team going forward with making this deal
- What happens to Wiggins if he becomes 3rd fiddle, Im not saying we should make deals that concern Wiggins but that is what the Wolves need to ask themselves what is Wiggins and what is he when another ball dominate player comes on the team. Does he become an above average 3rd fiddle or does he become a massive net negative again that doesn't do anything again.
-Has been a poor defender in the NBA

Conclusion:
- It all matters what we have to give up. If it is Cov and Teague with no pick. I pull the trigger. And risk the upside of Dlo and Kat
- If it is Cov, Culver and Gorgui, I still probably pull the trigger.
If it is Gorgui, Teague and unprotected 1st, I pull the trigger.
If it is Cov, Teague and unprotected 1st, I pass
If it is Cov, Culver and Teague, I probably pass also but super close
If it is Teague, Culver and Okogie, I do it in a heart beat (don't think this is realistic)

*I want to put in a note, I also would love to see what Cov value is around the league. I listened to the Ringer NBA show with KOC and Vernon today and KOC thinks there is a chance that Cov might be the best player on the market during the Trade Deadline, He thinks Wolves could get a young player and multiple picks for Cov. The thing is how good is the young player and how late are those 1st both might be totally irrelevant.

This is the most torn I have been on a trade idea in a long time, I can see both sides, in the end I probably lean gamble on Dlo especially if we are giving up no picks. Super unlikely the wolves move up in the lottery so Wolves still taking shots at a dart board to get good if the Wolves don't make a trade.

Once again super torn on it.

The bold is the problem. It's just not good enough.