Offseason trade forum

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

No way Brooklyn does that deal. They really really like Allen and Kurucs. Despite Russell's improvement, their season didn't really turn around until Atkinson started using Kurucs in the rotation more. Marks is a very smart GM. He wouldn't do this.


What the Wolves need to do is find their version of Joe Harris, their Dinwiddie, hell, their version of D'Angelo Russell. They've done a fantastic job in the draft but they hit so well with their reclamation projects. Unfortunately, Culver aside, this team isn't doing anything to add more shooting and playmaking. I wouldn't be upset if Nowell was in the rotation though.

Perhaps, but the Nets also really liked D'Angelo Russell and just mashed the upgrade button in signing Kyrie Irving. Same thing could apply here with Robert Covington being another significant upgrade over Taurean Prince, who's a restricted free agent in 2020, and Rodions Kurucs.

Also, they have every reason to really like Jarrett Allen, but signing DeAndre Jordan to a four-year deal indicates to me that they intend to play him a lot, and perhaps even give him the starting job with the bulk of the minutes.

Sean Marks is a tremendous GM, and I honestly don't see this as a bad move for the Nets, but I also don't think Jordan should have been a free agent priority for them given that they already had Allen. I see this as a realistic trade in theory.

They upgraded from D'Angelo Russell because it ultimately netted them Kyrie Irving and Kevin Durant. Without KD, there's a good chance they just keep Russell.

As for Jarrett Allen, don't let the DeAndre Jordan signing get in the way. He's there to mentor Allen going forward the way Jordan did for Mitchell Robinson the 2nd half of the year with the Knicks. Allen and LeVert are two guys I see there for a long time. Just because Rosas wants to see Covington as a primary PF doesn't mean the Nets do (and they also brought in Wilson Chandler as well) Nic Claxton isn't ready to assume meaningful PT on the Nets yet.

Eh, that's likely not true. Brooklyn's hope was to add two stars, sure, but they were always going to choose to max Kyrie Irving over D'Angelo Russell if given the opportunity. Kevin Durant's decision played no factor into that aspect.

DeAndre Jordan was in New York for one reason and really one reason only. He was needed to match salaries for Dallas in the Kristaps Porzingis deal. The Knicks did not care about Jordan one bit. Did he mentor a rookie Mitchell Robinson? Perhaps, but does a third-year Jarrett Allen, who's already better than Jordan is right now, need a mentor? I would say no. I just can't envision the Nets doling out four-years, $40M to a big that they weren't going give heavy minutes to.

PS: I never spectated that Robert Covington would be the primary power forward for the Nets. With Durant playing 77% and 69% of his minutes at power forward the last two years, respectively, in Golden State, I'm assessing that he'll likely do the same in Brooklyn, which would leave the small forward position wide open. Either way, they'd likely give the more difficult defensive assignment to Covington in my scenario.

[kekgeek]

Jerami Grant traded to the Nuggets for a 2020 1st

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

Jerami Grant traded to the Nuggets for a 2020 1st

Love it for both sides.

For Denver, Grant is an ideal frontcourt partner next to Jokic. Also just 25-years old on a team-friendly contract (1+1, $18.7M remaining). That's worth a first.

For Oklahoma City, this move saves them $39M in salary and luxury tax and adds yet another first-round pick to the asset pile. They will almost certainly plan on using Gallinari as the starting power forward.

[Lipoli390]

Jerami Grant traded to the Nuggets for a 2020 1st

Love it for both sides.

For Denver, Grant is an ideal frontcourt partner next to Jokic. Also just 25-years old on a team-friendly contract (1+1, $18.7M remaining). That's worth a first.

For Oklahoma City, this move saves them $39M in salary and luxury tax and adds yet another first-round pick to the asset pile. They will almost certainly plan on using Gallinari as the starting power forward.

It's always interesting to see good how good organizations work.

OKC was dealt a surprise blow with the unexpected trade demand from Paul George. So what does OKC do? They immediately switch to full rebuild mode and extract a bevy of first round picks and really high upside young talent like G-Alexander. Grant is young and talented, but he's a role player. So OKC turns him into a future 1st round pick knowing that they OKC needs to build a new core of elite players and realizing that the more 1st round picks you have the better your chance of hitting on one in the draft and also realizing the trade value and maneuvering flexibility you get from 1st round picks.

Meanwhile, Denver's top notch front office already made skillful use of the draft, getting Jokic in the 2nd round and Murray at #7 in the first round a few years ago. So they have their core two elite players. What do they do? They bring in a really nice complementary rotation player who is also young and, therefore, someone who can grow and develop with their young core.

You're either building your core or you're not. The Wolves still need at least one but preferably two more core elite players to pair with KAT. Rosas needs to act accordingly. Among other things, I think that ultimately means trading Covington for young high upside talent or a future 1st round pick (or both).

[AbeVigodaLive]

Jerami Grant traded to the Nuggets for a 2020 1st

Love it for both sides.

For Denver, Grant is an ideal frontcourt partner next to Jokic. Also just 25-years old on a team-friendly contract (1+1, $18.7M remaining). That's worth a first.

For Oklahoma City, this move saves them $39M in salary and luxury tax and adds yet another first-round pick to the asset pile. They will almost certainly plan on using Gallinari as the starting power forward.

It's always interesting to see good how good organizations work.

OKC was dealt a surprise blow with the unexpected trade demand from Paul George. So what does OKC do? They immediately switch to full rebuild mode and extract a bevy of first round picks and really high upside young talent like G-Alexander. Grant is young and talented, but he's a role player. So OKC turns him into a future 1st round pick knowing that they OKC needs to build a new core of elite players and realizing that the more 1st round picks you have the better your chance of hitting on one in the draft and also realizing the trade value and maneuvering flexibility you get from 1st round picks.

Meanwhile, Denver's top notch front office already made skillful use of the draft, getting Jokic in the 2nd round and Murray at #7 in the first round a few years ago. So they have their core two elite players. What do they do? They bring in a really nice complementary rotation player who is also young and, therefore, someone who can grow and develop with their young core.

You're either building your core or you're not. The Wolves still need at least one but preferably two more core elite players to pair with KAT. Rosas needs to act accordingly. Among other things, I think that ultimately means trading Covington for young high upside talent or a future 1st round pick (or both).

Is anybody else even more nervous than before... even IF things work out perfectly for Rosas and the Wolves and a 2nd player (or 3rd) joins KAT?

Only last July, Paul George committed "for many years" to the Thunder. Nope. Sike!

Maybe I'm overly pessimistic, but I see very little chance of any sort of sustainable success for the Wolves under this new NBA model. It's MUCH MORE likely that KAT teams up with other players elsewhere, or any partnership here is painfully short before the Wolves are forced to rebuild again.

And not a single person out of this fanbase will care. The media LOVES this. Casual fans LOVE this. Big markets (or warm locales) LOVE this.

Meh. There's real no upside to all this for franchises like Minnesota.

[Lipoli390]

Jerami Grant traded to the Nuggets for a 2020 1st

Love it for both sides.

For Denver, Grant is an ideal frontcourt partner next to Jokic. Also just 25-years old on a team-friendly contract (1+1, $18.7M remaining). That's worth a first.

For Oklahoma City, this move saves them $39M in salary and luxury tax and adds yet another first-round pick to the asset pile. They will almost certainly plan on using Gallinari as the starting power forward.

It's always interesting to see good how good organizations work.

OKC was dealt a surprise blow with the unexpected trade demand from Paul George. So what does OKC do? They immediately switch to full rebuild mode and extract a bevy of first round picks and really high upside young talent like G-Alexander. Grant is young and talented, but he's a role player. So OKC turns him into a future 1st round pick knowing that they OKC needs to build a new core of elite players and realizing that the more 1st round picks you have the better your chance of hitting on one in the draft and also realizing the trade value and maneuvering flexibility you get from 1st round picks.

Meanwhile, Denver's top notch front office already made skillful use of the draft, getting Jokic in the 2nd round and Murray at #7 in the first round a few years ago. So they have their core two elite players. What do they do? They bring in a really nice complementary rotation player who is also young and, therefore, someone who can grow and develop with their young core.

You're either building your core or you're not. The Wolves still need at least one but preferably two more core elite players to pair with KAT. Rosas needs to act accordingly. Among other things, I think that ultimately means trading Covington for young high upside talent or a future 1st round pick (or both).

Is anybody else even more nervous than before... even IF things work out perfectly for Rosas and the Wolves and a 2nd player (or 3rd) joins KAT?

Only last July, Paul George committed "for many years" to the Thunder. Nope. Sike!

Maybe I'm overly pessimistic, but I see very little chance of any sort of sustainable success for the Wolves under this new NBA model. It's MUCH MORE likely that KAT teams up with other players elsewhere, or any partnership here is painfully short before the Wolves are forced to rebuild again.

And not a single person out of this fanbase will care. The media LOVES this. Casual fans LOVE this. Big markets (or warm locales) LOVE this.

Meh. There's real no upside to all this for franchises like Minnesota.

You, pessimistic? That can't be! :) Seriously, the Spurs have done just fine. The Warriors weren't a destination franchise until they build a sustainable powerhouse primarily through the draft. Denver is doing just fine as is Portland. The Nets were an afterthought in the shadow of the Knicks for years before a smart front office team took over and turned them into THE team in New York. Sometimes a player will unexpectedly leave or want to leave -- e.g., Kawhi Leonard and Durant when he left OKC. But the top front offices deal with those events effectively. Meanwhile, a lot of stars have been happy to remain with the teams that draft them, including players like Westbrook, every Spurs star except Kawhi, DeRozan (didn't want to leave Toronto), and KG (didn't want to leave the Wolves) among others.

The key is having a top notch front office. We'll see whether we have that in Rosas and his guys.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Jerami Grant traded to the Nuggets for a 2020 1st

Love it for both sides.

For Denver, Grant is an ideal frontcourt partner next to Jokic. Also just 25-years old on a team-friendly contract (1+1, $18.7M remaining). That's worth a first.

For Oklahoma City, this move saves them $39M in salary and luxury tax and adds yet another first-round pick to the asset pile. They will almost certainly plan on using Gallinari as the starting power forward.

It's always interesting to see good how good organizations work.

OKC was dealt a surprise blow with the unexpected trade demand from Paul George. So what does OKC do? They immediately switch to full rebuild mode and extract a bevy of first round picks and really high upside young talent like G-Alexander. Grant is young and talented, but he's a role player. So OKC turns him into a future 1st round pick knowing that they OKC needs to build a new core of elite players and realizing that the more 1st round picks you have the better your chance of hitting on one in the draft and also realizing the trade value and maneuvering flexibility you get from 1st round picks.

Meanwhile, Denver's top notch front office already made skillful use of the draft, getting Jokic in the 2nd round and Murray at #7 in the first round a few years ago. So they have their core two elite players. What do they do? They bring in a really nice complementary rotation player who is also young and, therefore, someone who can grow and develop with their young core.

You're either building your core or you're not. The Wolves still need at least one but preferably two more core elite players to pair with KAT. Rosas needs to act accordingly. Among other things, I think that ultimately means trading Covington for young high upside talent or a future 1st round pick (or both).

Is anybody else even more nervous than before... even IF things work out perfectly for Rosas and the Wolves and a 2nd player (or 3rd) joins KAT?

Only last July, Paul George committed "for many years" to the Thunder. Nope. Sike!

Maybe I'm overly pessimistic, but I see very little chance of any sort of sustainable success for the Wolves under this new NBA model. It's MUCH MORE likely that KAT teams up with other players elsewhere, or any partnership here is painfully short before the Wolves are forced to rebuild again.

And not a single person out of this fanbase will care. The media LOVES this. Casual fans LOVE this. Big markets (or warm locales) LOVE this.

Meh. There's real no upside to all this for franchises like Minnesota.

You, pessimistic? That can't be! :) Seriously, the Spurs have done just fine. The Warriors weren't a destination franchise until they build a sustainable powerhouse primarily through the draft. Denver is doing just fine as is Portland. The Nets were an afterthought in the shadow of the Knicks for years before a smart front office team took over and turned them into THE team in New York. Sometimes a player will unexpectedly leave or want to leave -- e.g., Kawhi Leonard and Durant when he left OKC. But the top front offices deal with those events effectively. Meanwhile, a lot of stars have been happy to remain with the teams that draft them, including players like Westbrook, every Spurs star except Kawhi, DeRozan (didn't want to leave Toronto), and KG (didn't want to leave the Wolves) among others.

The key is having a top notch front office. We'll see whether we have that in Rosas and his guys.

To be fair... you just pointed to multiple examples... mostly from a different era. This is not our older brother's NBA. It's changing beneath our feet.

And Kawhi Leonard did leave SAS. And then Toronto. And he's literally being universally praised while the two solidly run franchises he left are left to rebuild on the fly. Paul George just re-upped in OKC a year ago... only to demand a trade THREE years before his contract expires. It's the 2nd time he's demanded out from a "forgotten market" team in 2+ years... and he's also almost universally praised for it... instead Russell Westbrook is taking the heat for some easy-to-dispense narrative.

Toronto, SAS and OKC are capable of treading water or even better. Each has a history of solid management. But everything they do will be to rebuild to get back to the point where they were with Leonard... and HOPE that the star taking them there won't bolt on a whim.



[Note: I guess I'll be rooting heavily for the likes of Denver, Portland and Utah... with an understanding that when/if Jokic, Lillard and Mitchell ditch them unceremoniously, it's all for the best for the league.]

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Heck, even Memphis had a really nice run of success that Abe often mentions in yearning for a competitive, if not perennial contending, team. And the thing about the core of that Memphis team - Conley, Gasol, and Randolph - is that only Conley was drafted by them. The other two were brought over via trades. Then they developed an identity that took advantage of their strengths. None of them had an elite offensive repertoire, so they ground out wins with a slow pace and top notch defense.

You just need to hit on a small handful of picks/trades/signings. Remember that in the midst of their nice run they drafted and traded the disappointing Rudy Gay, bombed on multiple draft picks, and basically just made under-the-radar moves. Yet they made the playoffs for seven years straight and had three 50+ win seasons.

I say this over and over again, but the least difficult path to success if you are a mid-market/flyover country type team is defense. Defense, defense, defense. You can build a top 10 defense without a bunch of sexy lottery picks and super high priced free agents.

[Lipoli390]

Jerami Grant traded to the Nuggets for a 2020 1st

Love it for both sides.

For Denver, Grant is an ideal frontcourt partner next to Jokic. Also just 25-years old on a team-friendly contract (1+1, $18.7M remaining). That's worth a first.

For Oklahoma City, this move saves them $39M in salary and luxury tax and adds yet another first-round pick to the asset pile. They will almost certainly plan on using Gallinari as the starting power forward.

It's always interesting to see good how good organizations work.

OKC was dealt a surprise blow with the unexpected trade demand from Paul George. So what does OKC do? They immediately switch to full rebuild mode and extract a bevy of first round picks and really high upside young talent like G-Alexander. Grant is young and talented, but he's a role player. So OKC turns him into a future 1st round pick knowing that they OKC needs to build a new core of elite players and realizing that the more 1st round picks you have the better your chance of hitting on one in the draft and also realizing the trade value and maneuvering flexibility you get from 1st round picks.

Meanwhile, Denver's top notch front office already made skillful use of the draft, getting Jokic in the 2nd round and Murray at #7 in the first round a few years ago. So they have their core two elite players. What do they do? They bring in a really nice complementary rotation player who is also young and, therefore, someone who can grow and develop with their young core.

You're either building your core or you're not. The Wolves still need at least one but preferably two more core elite players to pair with KAT. Rosas needs to act accordingly. Among other things, I think that ultimately means trading Covington for young high upside talent or a future 1st round pick (or both).

Is anybody else even more nervous than before... even IF things work out perfectly for Rosas and the Wolves and a 2nd player (or 3rd) joins KAT?

Only last July, Paul George committed "for many years" to the Thunder. Nope. Sike!

Maybe I'm overly pessimistic, but I see very little chance of any sort of sustainable success for the Wolves under this new NBA model. It's MUCH MORE likely that KAT teams up with other players elsewhere, or any partnership here is painfully short before the Wolves are forced to rebuild again.

And not a single person out of this fanbase will care. The media LOVES this. Casual fans LOVE this. Big markets (or warm locales) LOVE this.

Meh. There's real no upside to all this for franchises like Minnesota.

You, pessimistic? That can't be! :) Seriously, the Spurs have done just fine. The Warriors weren't a destination franchise until they build a sustainable powerhouse primarily through the draft. Denver is doing just fine as is Portland. The Nets were an afterthought in the shadow of the Knicks for years before a smart front office team took over and turned them into THE team in New York. Sometimes a player will unexpectedly leave or want to leave -- e.g., Kawhi Leonard and Durant when he left OKC. But the top front offices deal with those events effectively. Meanwhile, a lot of stars have been happy to remain with the teams that draft them, including players like Westbrook, every Spurs star except Kawhi, DeRozan (didn't want to leave Toronto), and KG (didn't want to leave the Wolves) among others.

The key is having a top notch front office. We'll see whether we have that in Rosas and his guys.

To be fair... you just pointed to multiple examples... mostly from a different era. This is not our older brother's NBA. It's changing beneath our feet.

And Kawhi Leonard did leave SAS. And then Toronto. And he's literally being universally praised while the two solidly run franchises he left are left to rebuild on the fly. Paul George just re-upped in OKC a year ago... only to demand a trade THREE years before his contract expires. It's the 2nd time he's demanded out from a "forgotten market" team in 2+ years... and he's also almost universally praised for it... instead Russell Westbrook is taking the heat for some easy-to-dispense narrative.

Toronto, SAS and OKC are capable of treading water or even better. Each has a history of solid management. But everything they do will be to rebuild to get back to the point where they were with Leonard... and HOPE that the star taking them there won't bolt on a whim.



[Note: I guess I'll be rooting heavily for the likes of Denver, Portland and Utah... with an understanding that when/if Jokic, Lillard and Mitchell ditch them unceremoniously, it's all for the best for the league.]

Warriors, Portland, Spurs, Nuggets, Jazz, Memphis... These aren't from a different era.

[Lipoli390]

Heck, even Memphis had a really nice run of success that Abe often mentions in yearning for a competitive, if not perennial contending, team. And the thing about the core of that Memphis team - Conley, Gasol, and Randolph - is that only Conley was drafted by them. The other two were brought over via trades. Then they developed an identity that took advantage of their strengths. None of them had an elite offensive repertoire, so they ground out wins with a slow pace and top notch defense.

You just need to hit on a small handful of picks/trades/signings. Remember that in the midst of their nice run they drafted and traded the disappointing Rudy Gay, bombed on multiple draft picks, and basically just made under-the-radar moves. Yet they made the playoffs for seven years straight and had three 50+ win seasons.

I say this over and over again, but the least difficult path to success if you are a mid-market/flyover country type team is defense. Defense, defense, defense. You can build a top 10 defense without a bunch of sexy lottery picks and super high priced free agents.

The key is to continue to keep your draft picks and continue to use them well. The Spurs had to weather the Kawhi storm after brilliantly drafting him with a draft-day deal. They've make some smart acquisitions like Aldridge and made the most of Kawhi by getting DeRozan and other assets. But meanwhile, they've continue to draft well outside the lottery, getting White, Murray and Lonnie Walker.