Wolves Offseason Forward Options

[Coolbreeze44]

The issue isn't with Jaden at the 4. The issue is that the rest of our wings have either body types that are more 1/2 than 3/4, or are rookies. I hardly trust any of them guarding bigger wings, let alone any actual 4, nor rebounding the position. Behind both Rudy and Jaden, there is nobody proven.

I agree with this assessment, which is why they should and likely will bring in frontcourt depth. I also agree that we would be playing smaller small forwards than ideal, although lip is right about TJ. However having a slightly undersized 3 in Ayo who is still strong and has a 6'10" wingspan is worthwhile concession imo for finally putting Jaden and Ant --- and for that matter, LaMelo--- in a position to have their skills best utilized.

But honestly your statement is what confuses me about the conversation, why are we talking about who will be the starting PF when the real concern is at the SF position? If you're asking me if I think they should upgrade from Ayo here, then I would completely agree, but again I think he can be an average defender here.

What confuses me here is that all of the talk was about Ayo potentially being our PG of the future, some saying he is best as a sixth man combo guard, and now people talking like he is fit to be a 3. I understand LaMelo has the size to be put on the worst offensive player 1-3, and even the 4 against some teams with Jaden being able to slide 1-4. Ayo is a 1,2. Ant is a 1,2.

I'd agree that who starts as a SF is a question. But only because the idea is moving Jaden from there. The real question is that by moving Jaden to the 4, it doesn't change the fact that we don't have anyone else on the roster who can play there, and nobody on the roster is actually best suited at the 3 either.

Let's just take OKC for example.

They run SGA, Wallace/Caruso, JDub, Chet, Hartenstein against us.

Who on this roster do you trust guarding JDub full-time if you have to put Jaden on Chet now? Ayo or Ant is now full-time on SGA and the other is on JDub.. I think both get eaten alive.

You totally get it Future. Not only would Ant and Ayo get eaten alive, our team could not beat them in a 7 game series with the Ayo at the 3 lineup.

[AussieWolf3]

I agree with this assessment, which is why they should and likely will bring in frontcourt depth. I also agree that we would be playing smaller small forwards than ideal, although lip is right about TJ. However having a slightly undersized 3 in Ayo who is still strong and has a 6'10" wingspan is worthwhile concession imo for finally putting Jaden and Ant --- and for that matter, LaMelo--- in a position to have their skills best utilized.

But honestly your statement is what confuses me about the conversation, why are we talking about who will be the starting PF when the real concern is at the SF position? If you're asking me if I think they should upgrade from Ayo here, then I would completely agree, but again I think he can be an average defender here.

What confuses me here is that all of the talk was about Ayo potentially being our PG of the future, some saying he is best as a sixth man combo guard, and now people talking like he is fit to be a 3. I understand LaMelo has the size to be put on the worst offensive player 1-3, and even the 4 against some teams with Jaden being able to slide 1-4. Ayo is a 1,2. Ant is a 1,2.

I'd agree that who starts as a SF is a question. But only because the idea is moving Jaden from there. The real question is that by moving Jaden to the 4, it doesn't change the fact that we don't have anyone else on the roster who can play there, and nobody on the roster is actually best suited at the 3 either.

Let's just take OKC for example.

They run SGA, Wallace/Caruso, JDub, Chet, Hartenstein against us.

Who on this roster do you trust guarding JDub full-time if you have to put Jaden on Chet now? Ayo or Ant is now full-time on SGA and the other is on JDub.. I think both get eaten alive.

You totally get it Future. Not only would Ant and Ayo get eaten alive, our team could not beat them in a 7 game series with the Ayo at the 3 lineup.

It would be pretty surprising for them to do that yeah, but that's just as much about the Thunder being really really good

Do you think the team is better now than it was at the end of the season?

[Q-is-here]

The issue isn't with Jaden at the 4. The issue is that the rest of our wings have either body types that are more 1/2 than 3/4, or are rookies. I hardly trust any of them guarding bigger wings, let alone any actual 4, nor rebounding the position. Behind both Rudy and Jaden, there is nobody proven.

I agree with this assessment, which is why they should and likely will bring in frontcourt depth. I also agree that we would be playing smaller small forwards than ideal, although lip is right about TJ. However having a slightly undersized 3 in Ayo who is still strong and has a 6'10" wingspan is worthwhile concession imo for finally putting Jaden and Ant --- and for that matter, LaMelo--- in a position to have their skills best utilized.

But honestly your statement is what confuses me about the conversation, why are we talking about who will be the starting PF when the real concern is at the SF position? If you're asking me if I think they should upgrade from Ayo here, then I would completely agree, but again I think he can be an average defender here.

What confuses me here is that all of the talk was about Ayo potentially being our PG of the future, some saying he is best as a sixth man combo guard, and now people talking like he is fit to be a 3. I understand LaMelo has the size to be put on the worst offensive player 1-3, and even the 4 against some teams with Jaden being able to slide 1-4. Ayo is a 1,2. Ant is a 1,2.

I'd agree that who starts as a SF is a question. But only because the idea is moving Jaden from there. The real question is that by moving Jaden to the 4, it doesn't change the fact that we don't have anyone else on the roster who can play there, and nobody on the roster is actually best suited at the 3 either.

Let's just take OKC for example.

They run SGA, Wallace/Caruso, JDub, Chet, Hartenstein against us.

Who on this roster do you trust guarding JDub full-time if you have to put Jaden on Chet now? Ayo or Ant is now full-time on SGA and the other is on JDub.. I think both get eaten alive.

Ant is not a 1-2 defensively, LOL. He's bigger than most SGs in the NBA. He's like 220-225 lbs for God's sake! He weighs just as much if not more than JDub and might be an inch shorter at most.

That OKC lineup is a tough cover for ANY team if they're healthy and hitting on all cylinders, but you make it sound like Ant (and Ayo for that matter) are these weak little guards. Both have the size, wingspan, and athleticism to hang with most NBA 2's and 3's.

I personally think we may see a lot more switching this year with every rotation player 6'4" or taller.

[Coolbreeze44]

What confuses me here is that all of the talk was about Ayo potentially being our PG of the future, some saying he is best as a sixth man combo guard, and now people talking like he is fit to be a 3. I understand LaMelo has the size to be put on the worst offensive player 1-3, and even the 4 against some teams with Jaden being able to slide 1-4. Ayo is a 1,2. Ant is a 1,2.

I'd agree that who starts as a SF is a question. But only because the idea is moving Jaden from there. The real question is that by moving Jaden to the 4, it doesn't change the fact that we don't have anyone else on the roster who can play there, and nobody on the roster is actually best suited at the 3 either.

Let's just take OKC for example.

They run SGA, Wallace/Caruso, JDub, Chet, Hartenstein against us.

Who on this roster do you trust guarding JDub full-time if you have to put Jaden on Chet now? Ayo or Ant is now full-time on SGA and the other is on JDub.. I think both get eaten alive.

You totally get it Future. Not only would Ant and Ayo get eaten alive, our team could not beat them in a 7 game series with the Ayo at the 3 lineup.

It would be pretty surprising for them to do that yeah, but that's just as much about the Thunder being really really good

Do you think the team is better now than it was at the end of the season?

I do provided we get another serviceable big that can start at the 4.

[AussieWolf3]

You totally get it Future. Not only would Ant and Ayo get eaten alive, our team could not beat them in a 7 game series with the Ayo at the 3 lineup.

It would be pretty surprising for them to do that yeah, but that's just as much about the Thunder being really really good

Do you think the team is better now than it was at the end of the season?

I do provided we get another serviceable big that can start at the 4.

Hmmm that's a big caveat given the cap constraints. That also puts Jaden back at the point of attack, which I guess you don't think he ever left, so fair enough

[Coolbreeze44]

It would be pretty surprising for them to do that yeah, but that's just as much about the Thunder being really really good

Do you think the team is better now than it was at the end of the season?

I do provided we get another serviceable big that can start at the 4.

Hmmm that's a big caveat given the cap constraints. That also puts Jaden back at the point of attack, which I guess you don't think he ever left, so fair enough

Yeah, I don't think it's ideal to have Jaden at the POA, but I think it's a necessity with Ant and Melo as your starting guards. If we had gotten Suggs for example, I don't think it would be necessary.

[AussieWolf3]

I do provided we get another serviceable big that can start at the 4.

Hmmm that's a big caveat given the cap constraints. That also puts Jaden back at the point of attack, which I guess you don't think he ever left, so fair enough

Yeah, I don't think it's ideal to have Jaden at the POA, but I think it's a necessity with Ant and Melo as your starting guards. If we had gotten Suggs for example, I don't think it would be necessary.

Get ready for Ant into turn defensive demon

[Lipoli390]

The following is the average height/weight at each position based on combine measurements:

Positional Comparison

Position Average Height Average Weight Wingspan
Point Guard (PG) 6'3" 194 lbs. 6’6.75
Shooting Guard (SG) 6'5" 202 lbs. 6’8.5
Small Forward (SF) 6'7" 215 lbs. 6’11.5
Power Forward (PF) 6'8" 227 lbs. 7’0.75
Center (C) 6'11" 247 lbs. 7’4.5

Anthony Edwards Combine Measurements
- Height 6’4.5
- Weight 225
- Wingspan 6’10

Jaden McDaniels
- Height 6’8
- Weight 196
- Wingspan 7’0.25

You see that Edwards appears to have enough size for the SF position. Based on the combine, he’s 2.5” under the average for SFs, but he was unusually young when drafted we all know he reportedly grew at least an inch thereafter. So he’s probably only about 1.5 inches below the average height. He’s 10 pounds heavier than the average SF and we know that it’s muscle. His wingspan is only 1.5 inches below the average. His athleticism pretty much nets out the length differential between Ant and the average SF while Ant’s 10 extra pounds of muscle likely give him an edge. I prefer at the SG position where he has a significant size advantage in addition to all his other gifts, but there’s reason he can’t be a great SF

Jaden McDaniels is a different story. He has the length of a PF but comes in about 30 pounds under the average NBA PF weight. Therein lies the matchup concern as I see it. I think McDaniels can do well guarding the PF position most of the time with his length and athleticism, but there will obviously be matchups that physically overwhelm him. But it should go without saying that Jaden would guard that position much better than Julius Randle. And because 227 pounds is an average, there are undoubtedly PFs in League who are close to Jaden’s weight.

All of this tells me we need to add a rotation PF with more size and physicality than Jaden.

[Phenom]

So Indiana is a notoriously cheap team that avoids the tax. They have 3 guys, Aaron Nesmith, Ben Sheppard and Jarace Walker, who are on the last year of their deals. Assuming they want to keep, at least the first two, they will probably get raises. If the Wolves expanded the trade to have Gueye and Green go to Indy, they could send Obi Toppin to the Wolves to cut Toppin's 15 million from their books for the 27/28 season. He would probably be a bench option but could be flipped again later for a different option.

I would also be quite interested in just bringing in Jarace Walker to play the 4, come to think of it.

[Lipoli390]

So Indiana is a notoriously cheap team that avoids the tax. They have 3 guys, Aaron Nesmith, Ben Sheppard and Jarace Walker, who are on the last year of their deals. Assuming they want to keep, at least the first two, they will probably get raises. If the Wolves expanded the trade to have Gueye and Green go to Indy, they could send Obi Toppin to the Wolves to cut Toppin's 15 million from their books for the 27/28 season. He would probably be a bench option but could be flipped again later for a different option.

I would also be quite interested in just bringing in Jarace Walker to play the 4, come to think of it.

Good thinking, Phenom. You might be on to something. Adding either of these two in exchange for Josh Green would be a good move in my view. Obi is the better offensive player of the two, but I think Jarace is the better defender and rebounder. If we have a choice, I’d take Jarace. Obi’s salary is higher and I think he’s the guy Indiana might be more open to moving. I think Green would be a nice piece for them. But I wouldn’t include TSJ in the deal. Green and Gueye for Obi or just Green for Jarace.