Camden wrote:For those that think going overseas was the "easy move" for Muiday, here's a good interview piece on what he faced in his year. http://collegebasketball.scout.com/story/1531265-q-a-emmanuel-mudiay?s=196&utm_content=buffer51927&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer
Terrific article, cam...thanks for posting. I like Mudiay much more after reading this...seems like he really has his head screwed on right.
I lived in Shanghai for my job from 2007-2009, so I can identify with the culture shock and language barrier Emmanuel talks about. And I worked hard to just get a remedial grasp of the language...can't imagine how I would have gotten by without some Mandarin. He talks about flying after games, and I'm wondering what kind of planes he flew on. While international flights within Asia are luxurious...especially if you're flying up front...domestic flights are primitive at best. Almost all of the domestic flights I took had only one class of seats, and even though I'm only 6-1, I have never been more cramped on a plane in my life. I can't imagine how a guy 6-5 like Mudiay fit in those seats. Maybe they chartered, I don't know.
But what's most important to the Wolves, and to us on this board, is how well did playing in the CBA prepare Mudiay for the NBA. I would say "okay, but not great". I read something a week ago from an American sportswriter who covers the CBA, and he claimed that the level of play is slightly better than the NCAA. I have to say strongly that was not my impression in the games I watched live and on TV. The CBA is made up of Chinese guys and Americans who can't cut it in the NBA...Will Bynum was a star this year, for goodness sakes. I agree that the game could get physical at times, but for the most part the defense I observed was akin to an NBA all-star game...very little lateral quickness, and no rim protection. Very easy even for an over-the-hill guy like Stephan Marbury to get to the rim with impunity. It makes it really difficult for me to know where to place Mudiay in a mock draft, because we just haven't been able to watch him in comparative situation to the other guys in the top 5-6 players. It's why I still have to rank Stanley Johnson ahead of him right now. Workouts are going to be critical for Mudiay, just like they were for LaVine.
Having said all that, I think the option of going to China for a year rather than the NCAA is going to become more prevalent. If I were a top 10 high school prospect from a poor family, I would definitely choose playing in China over college. First, the opportunity to make life more comfortable for my family by making hundreds of thousands of dollars at age 18 would be a big draw. Secondly, I know how much I value the three years I got to spend in that fascinating country...imagine what an experience it would be for a kid from the Chicago projects. If Mudiay goes top 4 as expected, I predict that we will see many more high schoolers go this route.
You name drop Will Bynum and Stephan Marbury like they wouldn't completely decimate opposing teams at the college level, even if they are "over-the-hill". I firmly disagree with that.
LST, the problem with your argument is that you're comparing Chinese ball to the NBA when really you should be comparing Chinese ball to the NCAA. Grown, paid professional athletes Vs student athletes who may or may not ever play professional basketball.
Good point, rubiooo and cam. A crafty vet like Marbury might still be effective in a college game, at least offensively...even at 38. But I can't get behind your Bynum argument, as he has never put up the kind of stats that he put up this year. He only averaged 10 and 2 on 38% shooting in four years in college. His offensive success should tell you all you have to know about CBA defense. Like I said, you have to watch a Chinese game live to appreciate how poor the defense is. The Chinese love basketball, but they typically don't have the size or athleticism to play the kind of defense good college teams do. And do you think it is tough to beat a 38-year-old Marbury off the dribble these days? I still maintain savvy GMs will discount Mudiay's offensive numbers, just like they should have done with CJ McCollum, and base their drafting decision more on what he shows in his workouts. I think he's going to be a busy guy in May and June.
longstrangetrip wrote:Good point, rubiooo and cam. A crafty vet like Marbury might still be effective in a college game, at least offensively...even at 38. But I can't get behind your Bynum argument, as he has never put up the kind of stats that he put up this year. He only averaged 10 and 2 on 38% shooting in four years in college. His offensive success should tell you all you have to know about CBA defense. Like I said, you have to watch a Chinese game live to appreciate how poor the defense is. The Chinese love basketball, but they typically don't have the size or athleticism to play the kind of defense good college teams do. And do you think it is tough to beat a 38-year-old Marbury off the dribble these days? I still maintain savvy GMs will discount Mudiay's offensive numbers, just like they should have done with CJ McCollum, and base their drafting decision more on what he shows in his workouts. I think he's going to be a busy guy in May and June.
Even Bynum is better than 99% of college players. Per 36 he averaged 16pts, 6.5asts, 3rbs, and 1.5stl in the NBA. 99% of the college kids will never even make it to an NBA roster. Bynum did, and he played 7 years gaining invaluable experience that he carried with him to the CBA. He is without a doubt a better player now than he was at college. I'm not saying he would have/did decimate competition in college back when he was 20 years old, i'm saying right now, at 32 years old, with all of his previous NBA experience, that he would utterly destroy college kids.
longstrangetrip wrote:Good point, rubiooo and cam. A crafty vet like Marbury might still be effective in a college game, at least offensively...even at 38. But I can't get behind your Bynum argument, as he has never put up the kind of stats that he put up this year. He only averaged 10 and 2 on 38% shooting in four years in college. His offensive success should tell you all you have to know about CBA defense. Like I said, you have to watch a Chinese game live to appreciate how poor the defense is. The Chinese love basketball, but they typically don't have the size or athleticism to play the kind of defense good college teams do. And do you think it is tough to beat a 38-year-old Marbury off the dribble these days? I still maintain savvy GMs will discount Mudiay's offensive numbers, just like they should have done with CJ McCollum, and base their drafting decision more on what he shows in his workouts. I think he's going to be a busy guy in May and June.
Even Bynum is better than 99% of college players. Per 36 he averaged 16pts, 6.5asts, 3rbs, and 1.5stl in the NBA. 99% of the college kids will never even make it to an NBA roster. Bynum did, and he played 7 years gaining invaluable experience that he carried with him to the CBA. He is without a doubt a better player now than he was at college. I'm not saying he would have/did decimate competition in college back when he was 20 years old, i'm saying right now, at 32 years old, with all of his previous NBA experience, that he would utterly destroy college kids.
Rubioo and Cam...I think you guys need to research the CBA a little...this isn't Europe we're talking about. If Will Bynum and an aging Marbury don't tell you enough about the lack of defense, let me bring up CJ McCollum's older brother Erich. He wasn't talented enough to play college basketball at a big college, but actually had a decent 4-year career at Goshen College (yes, Goshen)...not good enough to attract any attention from any NBA teams though.
So, how did this marginal college player do this year for the Zhejiang Golden Bulls? How about 39.6 PPG, 7.4 RPG (and he's shorter than CJ), and 5.5 APG...Oscar Robertson-like stats! And he didn't do it on 3-pointers...only made 2 1/2 a game at 34%. I can't stress enough how easy it is to get to the rim in the CBA, and how little rim protection you meet when you get there. I'm pretty sure I could put up at least 15 and 8 there if I was given the minutes!
Errick McCollum's stats demonstrate why Mudiay's stats have to be discounted significantly.
Hicks123 wrote:Cam....question. Would you trade the #1 pick for Rudy Gobert? Absurd question even a couple months ago. Now, I think I make that move.
Q12543 wrote:I'm not Cam, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night.......Man, it sounds nutty, but I would do that in a heartbeat. A Rubio-Wiggins-Gobert trio; you are talking about a potential #1 or #2 defense eventually, especially as Wiggins and Gobert get older and wiser.
No way. I stay firm with my stance that Towns/Okafor is the better play. Offer Gobert, offer Drummond, offer DeAndre Jordan. I do realize the reasons behind making that move. Immediately we get a shot-blocker + garbage points scorer and good rebounder. I would just hate to see that is all we get from a No. 1 pick. With the two 19-year old bigs, we get the skill-set and potential to have much more, a star player in the NBA even. Stay patient.
Gobert, Jordan, Asik, etc. Those guys were found later in the draft because they are limited. They play defense, swat shots, grab boards and get putbacks. They do it at a very good level, great even, but I do believe those guys can be found in the same ranks of the draft.
Take this draft class for instance. Robert Upshaw, Mouhammadou Jaiteh, Moussa Diagne. Throw a 2nd rounder on any one of those three and you could very well have a diamond in the rough.
To recap, I'm not downplaying the effect Gobert/Drummond have on their teams, but I'd argue the ceilings of Towns/Okafor are too good to trade for them. My opinion.
I would argue that Gobert is a star. I don't even put him in the same boat as Jordan or Drummond. He's better than both. He's single-handedly turned Utah from a mediocre defense into #1 in the NBA since the all-star break. That's just crazy, but it goes to show what an impact he's having. 11 PPG on 60% shooting, 13 rebounds, and nearly 4 blocks per 36 minutes means he's producing in the box score as well. And he's only 22. Centers don't peak until their mid to late 20s. He is a monster.
Hicks123 wrote:Cam....question. Would you trade the #1 pick for Rudy Gobert? Absurd question even a couple months ago. Now, I think I make that move.
Q12543 wrote:I'm not Cam, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night.......Man, it sounds nutty, but I would do that in a heartbeat. A Rubio-Wiggins-Gobert trio; you are talking about a potential #1 or #2 defense eventually, especially as Wiggins and Gobert get older and wiser.
No way. I stay firm with my stance that Towns/Okafor is the better play. Offer Gobert, offer Drummond, offer DeAndre Jordan. I do realize the reasons behind making that move. Immediately we get a shot-blocker + garbage points scorer and good rebounder. I would just hate to see that is all we get from a No. 1 pick. With the two 19-year old bigs, we get the skill-set and potential to have much more, a star player in the NBA even. Stay patient.
Gobert, Jordan, Asik, etc. Those guys were found later in the draft because they are limited. They play defense, swat shots, grab boards and get putbacks. They do it at a very good level, great even, but I do believe those guys can be found in the same ranks of the draft.
Take this draft class for instance. Robert Upshaw, Mouhammadou Jaiteh, Moussa Diagne. Throw a 2nd rounder on any one of those three and you could very well have a diamond in the rough.
To recap, I'm not downplaying the effect Gobert/Drummond have on their teams, but I'd argue the ceilings of Towns/Okafor are too good to trade for them. My opinion.
I would argue that Gobert is a star. I don't even put him in the same boat as Jordan or Drummond. He's better than both. He's single-handedly turned Utah from a mediocre defense into #1 in the NBA since the all-star break. That's just crazy, but it goes to show what an impact he's having. 11 PPG on 60% shooting, 13 rebounds, and nearly 4 blocks per 36 minutes means he's producing in the box score as well. And he's only 22. Centers don't peak until their mid to late 20s. He is a monster.
They moved to the number 1 D because he replaced Kanter who doesn't really play defense. They still have Favors who is still very good defensively in his own right hence why they were even a mediocre defense to begin with and not a terrible one. As nice as the stifle tower is he's not doing it by himself. He'd be in the same boat as Dieng here having to cover for everyone so it's not a guarantee he has nearly the same impact here. KG is the only forward we have who is even close to Favors defensively and he's not playing much these days.
Hicks123 wrote:Cam....question. Would you trade the #1 pick for Rudy Gobert? Absurd question even a couple months ago. Now, I think I make that move.
Q12543 wrote:I'm not Cam, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night.......Man, it sounds nutty, but I would do that in a heartbeat. A Rubio-Wiggins-Gobert trio; you are talking about a potential #1 or #2 defense eventually, especially as Wiggins and Gobert get older and wiser.
No way. I stay firm with my stance that Towns/Okafor is the better play. Offer Gobert, offer Drummond, offer DeAndre Jordan. I do realize the reasons behind making that move. Immediately we get a shot-blocker + garbage points scorer and good rebounder. I would just hate to see that is all we get from a No. 1 pick. With the two 19-year old bigs, we get the skill-set and potential to have much more, a star player in the NBA even. Stay patient.
Gobert, Jordan, Asik, etc. Those guys were found later in the draft because they are limited. They play defense, swat shots, grab boards and get putbacks. They do it at a very good level, great even, but I do believe those guys can be found in the same ranks of the draft.
Take this draft class for instance. Robert Upshaw, Mouhammadou Jaiteh, Moussa Diagne. Throw a 2nd rounder on any one of those three and you could very well have a diamond in the rough.
To recap, I'm not downplaying the effect Gobert/Drummond have on their teams, but I'd argue the ceilings of Towns/Okafor are too good to trade for them. My opinion.
I would argue that Gobert is a star. I don't even put him in the same boat as Jordan or Drummond. He's better than both. He's single-handedly turned Utah from a mediocre defense into #1 in the NBA since the all-star break. That's just crazy, but it goes to show what an impact he's having. 11 PPG on 60% shooting, 13 rebounds, and nearly 4 blocks per 36 minutes means he's producing in the box score as well. And he's only 22. Centers don't peak until their mid to late 20s. He is a monster.
They moved to the number 1 D because he replaced Kanter who doesn't really play defense. They still have Favors who is still very good defensively in his own right hence why they were even a mediocre defense to begin with and not a terrible one. As nice as the stifle tower is he's not doing it by himself. He'd be in the same boat as Dieng here having to cover for everyone so it's not a guarantee he has nearly the same impact here. KG is the only forward we have who is even close to Favors defensively and he's not playing much these days.
Not sure what you are saying here. So the singular change of moving Gobert to starting Center and effectively leap frogging about 15 other teams in defensive efficiency isn't very impressive? Obviously he's getting some help, but the very fact they went from mediocre to elite by simply making that one change should say something about his impact.
And the Dieng comparison is laughable. You do realize that Dieng is part of the problem, not solution? He's one of the worst defensive Centers in the NBA and it's not because he's covering for everyone else.
I think he was making the case that it is not only because of inserting Gobert into the starting lineup that they have shot up the charts on the defensive ranking, but also getting rid of a negative defender in Kanter.
