Jaden McDaniels

[Lipoli390]

We have threads devoted to Edwards, KAT, DLO and Gobert. But i can't recall seeing a thread devolved solely to Jaden McDaniels. I found this Q&A with Jaden on Hoops Hype this morning and thought it would be a good way to kick off a Jaden McDaniels discussion thread.

https://hoopshype.com/lists/jaden-mcdaniels-i-could-be-one-of-the-best-two-way-players-in-the-nba/

[Carlos Danger]

He's one of those "home grown" guys that I root for. I'm a VORP guy, and he hasn't shown up well in that stat (he was a negative his first two years). But he has shown improvement each year (VORP went from (0.6), (0.4) to a positive 0.1 this so far this year. And he's also improved each year on other Advanced stats like PER and Win Shares/48.

The reports from the Gobert trade were that they wanted McDaniels, but we ended up giving up another unprotected pick instead. I think that shows not only what that the Wolves think highly of him, but also other teams. As others have bemoaned, he needs to rebound better. I don't think he's ever going to be a big scoring machine. But he seems to be a great fit player because he can play defense and is content to be a supplemental offensive player. He's one guy I'd try to lock up on a new contract assuming the dollars are reasonable.

[Lipoli390]

He's one of those "home grown" guys that I root for. I'm a VORP guy, and he hasn't shown up well in that stat (he was a negative his first two years). But he has shown improvement each year (VORP went from (0.6), (0.4) to a positive 0.1 this so far this year. And he's also improved each year on other Advanced stats like PER and Win Shares/48.

The reports from the Gobert trade were that they wanted McDaniels, but we ended up giving up another unprotected pick instead. I think that shows not only what that the Wolves think highly of him, but also other teams. As others have bemoaned, he needs to rebound better. I don't think he's ever going to be a big scoring machine. But he seems to be a great fit player because he can play defense and is content to be a supplemental offensive player. He's one guy I'd try to lock up on a new contract assuming the dollars are reasonable.

Carlos - I agree with all your points except your take on his scoring potential. While I wouldn't bet on him becoming a big scoring machine, I think the potential is there for him to become a really good scorer. He has the makings of a really nice three point shot. He's also shown an improve handle with the ability to explode to the basket and finish over defenders. It's more likely that he becomes the player you described, which would be terrific. But I haven't giving up yet on something closer to a Scottie Pippen. I do want him to improve his rebounding though!.

[Carlos Danger]

Lip - I didn't mean to come across as if Jaden doesn't have any scoring potential. He's actually one of our better shooters based on FG% (about 100 points better than Nowell). I was just trying to articulate that he seems content to take his 6 to 8 shots a game vs. guys with scorer mentality like Edwards, DLO, Nowell etc. That's not necessarily a bad thing. And that's what I was trying to say by being a "great fit player" because he's not out there looking for his shot. He plays within himself on offense vs. stat hunting. He can be a perfect compliment to a guy like Edwards who will shoot a lot.

[Q-is-here]

He's one of those "home grown" guys that I root for. I'm a VORP guy, and he hasn't shown up well in that stat (he was a negative his first two years). But he has shown improvement each year (VORP went from (0.6), (0.4) to a positive 0.1 this so far this year. And he's also improved each year on other Advanced stats like PER and Win Shares/48.

The reports from the Gobert trade were that they wanted McDaniels, but we ended up giving up another unprotected pick instead. I think that shows not only what that the Wolves think highly of him, but also other teams. As others have bemoaned, he needs to rebound better. I don't think he's ever going to be a big scoring machine. But he seems to be a great fit player because he can play defense and is content to be a supplemental offensive player. He's one guy I'd try to lock up on a new contract assuming the dollars are reasonable.

Guys like Jaden - assuming he continues to improve - are almost as valuable as the high usage stars that comprise a legit playoff team. It's not enough anymore to have one or two big-time scorers. You have to have at least a couple guys that are stars in their role. Mikal Bridges continues to be the benchmark in my opinion for Jaden. If he can get somewhere to that kind of player, he will be invaluable to us. Hopefully he keeps improving.

[Lipoli390]

Lip - I didn't mean to come across as if Jaden doesn't have any scoring potential. He's actually one of our better shooters based on FG% (about 100 points better than Nowell). I was just trying to articulate that he seems content to take his 6 to 8 shots a game vs. guys with scorer mentality like Edwards, DLO, Nowell etc. That's not necessarily a bad thing. And that's what I was trying to say by being a "great fit player" because he's not out there looking for his shot. He plays within himself on offense vs. stat hunting. He can be a perfect compliment to a guy like Edwards who will shoot a lot.

OK, I'm tracking and I agree.

[WildWolf2813]

I've soured on McDaniels big time. He plays the way the other bigs on this team play: as if they're ashamed of their height. If he could trade bodies with McLaughlin, he'd think about it. He's big on intangibles, I get it, but he's a major contributor to why we're God awful on the boards (and to a lesser extent why management felt they needed to move Vanderbilt): has height, but will forever get pushed around more skilled players who have a better knack for the ball.

[Carlos Danger]

I've soured on McDaniels big time. He plays the way the other bigs on this team play: as if they're ashamed of their height. If he could trade bodies with McLaughlin, he'd think about it. He's big on intangibles, I get it, but he's a major contributor to why we're God awful on the boards (and to a lesser extent why management felt they needed to move Vanderbilt): has height, but will forever get pushed around more skilled players who have a better knack for the ball.

I don't completely disagree with what you wrote. We all certainly want more. But if you squint a little you can find year over year improvement from McDaniels. And as a 22 year old, I'm ok with him at least continuing to trend upwards albeit slowly. All of the key Advanced Stats I follow improved each season:

[table]
[tr]
[th]Age[/th]
[th]PER[/th]
[th]WS/48[/th]
[th]VORP[/th]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]20[/td]
[td]8.9[/td]
[td].046[/td]
[td](.06)[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]21[/td]
[td]10.3[/td]
[td].065[/td]
[td](.04)[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]22[/td]
[td]11.7[/td]
[td].076[/td]
[td]0.1[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]

[AbeVigodaLive]

I've soured on McDaniels big time. He plays the way the other bigs on this team play: as if they're ashamed of their height. If he could trade bodies with McLaughlin, he'd think about it. He's big on intangibles, I get it, but he's a major contributor to why we're God awful on the boards (and to a lesser extent why management felt they needed to move Vanderbilt): has height, but will forever get pushed around more skilled players who have a better knack for the ball.

I don't completely disagree with what you wrote. We all certainly want more. But if you squint a little you can find year over year improvement from McDaniels. And as a 22 year old, I'm ok with him at least continuing to trend upwards albeit slowly. All of the key Advanced Stats I follow improved each season:

[table]
[tr]
[th]Age[/th]
[th]PER[/th]
[th]WS/48[/th]
[th]VORP[/th]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]20[/td]
[td]8.9[/td]
[td].046[/td]
[td](.06)[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]21[/td]
[td]10.3[/td]
[td].065[/td]
[td](.04)[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]


[td]22[/td]
[td]11.7[/td]
[td].076[/td]
[td]0.1[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]

So he's still a negative offensive player... and slightly better than an average player overall?

I think McDaniels is a key cog for the Timberwolves. But for a guy to be lauded as untouchable in a big trade designed to bring the team to the next level... I'd have hoped he was ready to reach the next level, too.

There have been a lot of players like Jaden McDaniels in the league over the years... some keep improving and are essential players. Others drift and lag and show flashes amid wildly inconsistent efforts that eventually get them moved from one team to the next.

No idea which path McDaniels is on. There's simply not enough evidence to make a legit case either way.

[thedoper]

Players like Jaden McDaniels develop to their top potential in stable, winning environments. I cannot for the life of me name an effective role player that the Timberwolves have drafted, developed, and retained as part of their roster.