Relax everyone

[kekgeek]

A year ago today. A forum was created called: Season Over?

FNG (promise this isn't a rip on you just making a overall point) made this post

"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVb-Yb_NUy8

Over? Did you say over? Nothing is over until we say it is!

Depends on your definition of "over", papel. If over means no chance of making the playoffs, several of us thought this season was over before it even began. But for those who recognize a team that has KAT/DLo absorbing half of its payroll is not likely to ever get beyond mediocrity. So for those who believe this, the goal of the season was development and hopefully roster changes, not playoffs. I'm still watching game replays every morning because this is my team and my interest in the season is different, but still valid. I watch to see:

-how good can Ant become. And games like the last one seem to raise his already high ceiling a little more.

-can this team actually move out of the bottom five in defense? So far the results are mixed, but somewhat promising. We have three very good defenders in PatBev, Jaden and JO, and two with some promise in Vando and Ant. The more minutes the 5 of them get (like in the Houston and Pelicans games), the more our defense will look improved. And despite some notable improvement in his off-ball defense, DLo showed me against Wig that he remains one of the worst on-ball defenders in the association. I think our defensive improvement will be inversely proportional to the number of minutes DLo and Beasley get.

-do our second year players have a future in this league. Many of us had some hopes for Jaden, Vando, Nowell and JMac coming into the season, but they have largely disappointed, Jaden's defense is every bit as good as it was his rookie year, but his lethargy on offense and propensity to foul is retarding his growth. And Vando is looking more and more like a one-trick pony to me- a tenacious and elite offensive rebounder.

-will our guys lighting up G League play a role this season. The way Bolmaro, Wright and Knight are playing down there mostly speaks volumes about the quality of play in the minor league. But success in Iowa doesn't preclude success in Target Center- it just doesn't guarantee it. I'm guessing that when this team gets to about 6-20, Finch/Gupta will dip into the Iowa talent and give at least Bolmaro a chance to show what he's got. I don't think it will lead immediately to more wins, but I'm still looking forward to it.

- can we show some overall improvement, but still finish low enough to give us some chance to draft Chet Holmgren. I didn't think so before the season started, as my prediction of 35 wins would have us in the late lottery. But a 3-7 (soon to be be 3-10) start gives us a better chance of getting at least a top five pick, and this draft looks very good to me. I think a lot of us will be watching a lot of college hoops this year and dreaming about who would look good next to Ant and whoever KAT and DLo bring back in trade.

So the season is far from over for me. But if the main reason for watching is to see how good our playoff position will be, I suggest getting the NBA Pass and adopting Cleveland for the season"


Man to Pat Bev is Old, Vando has is a one trick pony, Kat takes up the payroll, got to watch the G-League, can the young guys figure it out.

Damn to bad we all had the wolves season over 10 games into the season. To bad they didn't turn it around

[Porckchop]

I find it interesting how some of the guys on here maintained so much positive energy and faith in players to improve thru so many years where the team was just aweful. And now that we have a team filled with talent some of us have less confidence . It's almost worse than the cynicism every long suffering Vikings fan feels.

[Lipoli390]

I find it interesting how some of the guys on here maintained so much positive energy and faith in players to improve thru so many years where the team was just aweful. And now that we have a team filled with talent some of us have less confidence . It's almost worse than the cynicism every long suffering Vikings fan feels.

It's interesting but not surprising. With talent comes expectations. When your team mortgages its future in a "win-now" trade, you obviously expect your team to win now and you're not inclined to put faith in player improvement. The Wolves finished last season as a very good team on the rise. It's hard not to be cynical when that team fails to pick up where it left off and instead regresses the way he clearly has through 11 games this season.

[FNG]

I'm comparing how I feel after tonight's game (I was in the arena, unfortunately) to how I felt in the early stages last year. You're right, I was relaxed last year at this time, but not relaxed this year. And the reason is my expectations are so much higher this year. I wasn't impressed with our depth last year, and I didn't think our young guys were ready to play winning basketball. But beginning in mid-November, the NBA injury gods began smiling on us, and they gave us opponents night in and night out missing one or more key players. And our Wolves did what they needed to do...win against teams missing their stars. And we made the playoffs and almost won a series.

I don't want to have to rely on other teams' injuries to be successful this season, and I still think this team is talented enough to be very good. The players we gave up for Gobert haven't been very good. Vando and Beasley are Utah's to worst performers in on/off, Bolmaro hasn't played, and PatBev has been mostly injured and terrible when he's played. And in return we got Rudy, who as you know kek, has been everything we were looking for on the defensive side of the ball...just look at how awful we were defensively last night with Rudy out. So I'm not relaxed because this team should be 9-2 right now instead of 5-6. I don't like underachieving, and this team is underachieving big time.

I listened to Finchie's post gamer last night, and he sounded downright depressed (I was too on my long drive home). Over and over again he lamented the amount of "daylight" between our defense and their shooters, and I will tell you, it was painful to watch in person. KAT and DLo had nice games offensively (DLo's best game of the year I thought, despite 33% shooting again), but along with Ant, they may be the worst three starters in the league in defending the perimeter. Their knowledge of proper NBA rotation is lacking, and sometimes their effort is even worse. Getting Rudy back will help because as you said in the GDT, having him back their to protect the rim allows our perimeter defenders to be more aggressive. But I'm just not confident these three guys will ever figure it out.

So yeah, I'm having a hard time relaxing this morning. I hate to see a team doing so much worse than they should. We get the Suns next, and perhaps some of the good fortune magic of last year returns with the absence of Cam Johnson. He is arguably their most valuable player, and the Suns were dreadful last night against Philly without their best defender and 3-point shooter. Give me a big win on Wednesday night, and maybe my high spirits will return, but right now I'm not feeling very good about this team.

[AbeVigodaLive]

A HUGE part of the reasoning behind the Rudy Gobert trade was the development of Edwards and McDaniels. Heck, we had to hear all about the PR spin on McDaniels being entirely off limits in the trade.

Fair enough. BUT...

Everybody here should know how I judge young NBA players. The best ones almost always show year-to-year improvement, usually in measurable ways.

Both Edwards and McDaniels may still do that. But, right now, we're not seeing it.

- It's year three and McDaniels is still "just a guy." Wipe away an impressive play here or play there... and when you get down to it... he's improved to have a 0.0 VORP. And an 11.2 PER. Does that make him a bad player? Or, even a player who shouldn't be prized by the organization? No. But in a league where other 3rd year players are performing better and making a larger impact and showing more signs of growth... McDaniels still seems a long ways away from being more than just a guy.

- Edwards has similar counting stats to last year. But a look around the margins and there are areas for concern as discussed on this site in other threads. He came to camp out of shape. He's voiced his displeasure with the team's spacing. He had that possession where he just stood there. He admits he needs to be in better shape. He has ignored open teammates repeatedly to dribble, dribble, dribble his way into contested shots. His energy has waned in the early season. He has a negative VORP right now. Basically, there are more Wiggins similarities right now than similarities to Haliburton or Maxey.

Both McDaniels and Edwards arrived to the NBA with questions about maturity and effort. It's actually probably pretty unlikely both of them max out their potential. I assume both will improve throughout this season. But if they don't... and they stagnate or regress in year 3... NBA history tells us the Wolves (and its fans) should be very concerned.

[Porckchop]

I find it interesting how some of the guys on here maintained so much positive energy and faith in players to improve thru so many years where the team was just aweful. And now that we have a team filled with talent some of us have less confidence . It's almost worse than the cynicism every long suffering Vikings fan feels.

It's interesting but not surprising. With talent comes expectations. When your team mortgages its future in a "win-now" trade, you obviously expect your team to win now and you're not inclined to put faith in player improvement. The Wolves finished last season as a very good team on the rise. It's hard not to be cynical when that team fails to pick up where it left off and instead regresses the way he clearly has through 11 games this season.

I get that but it's not like they've been so bad that they've dug themselves a hole they can't get out of. Their .500 and have a better record than a handful of teams expected to be better than us. I know Your not a Rudy fan but he's not the issue. This team was always gonna be as good as Ant play makes them. So far it's been a bit underwhelming.

[FNG]

Ouch...but fair analysis of Ant, Abe. I can' t help but still be excited about what he can become, but he's not an effective player right now. It's still fun for me to watch Jaden on defense...night in and night, he draws the toughest defensive assignment. But his failure to develop offensively and his propensity to foul can't be ignored.

But I'm not losing sight of some positives I'm seeing this year: KAT's improved demeanor and continued consistent performance, a deep effective bench (although our bench was not good last night, including my current man crush JMac, and the interior presence of Rudy. It's not over...I'll try to take kek's advice and relax, and it may take a valium or two to get there.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Ouch...but fair analysis of Ant, Abe. I can' t help but still be excited about what he can become, but he's not an effective player right now. It's still fun for me to watch Jaden on defense...night in and night, he draws the toughest defensive assignment. But his failure to develop offensively and his propensity to foul can't be ignored.

But I'm not losing sight of some positives I'm seeing this year: KAT's improved demeanor and continued consistent performance, a deep effective bench (although our bench was not good last night, including my current man crush JMac, and the interior presence of Rudy. It's not over...I'll try to take kek's advice and relax, and it may take a valium or two to get there.

The rub is the next few games. Unless something changes significantly, it'll be interesting to see how much we're clinging to the "it's early and we improved so much last year" take IF the team is 5 - 11 or 6 - 10.

Granted, it's all we have right now, so it makes sense we talk ourselves into it. And with all the significant changes the team has had this season it actually is warranted a bit.

BUT... even though it's not time to panic... that time might be approaching...



[Note: I am far beyond the point where I will be patient enough to listen to Ant and read all the PR fluff stories next summer about a newly dedicated Edwards or now the team has gelled and has chemistry. We've been down that path before.]

[Lipoli390]

A HUGE part of the reasoning behind the Rudy Gobert trade was the development of Edwards and McDaniels. Heck, we had to hear all about the PR spin on McDaniels being entirely off limits in the trade.

Fair enough. BUT...

Everybody here should know how I judge young NBA players. The best ones almost always show year-to-year improvement, usually in measurable ways.

Both Edwards and McDaniels may still do that. But, right now, we're not seeing it.

- It's year three and McDaniels is still "just a guy." Wipe away an impressive play here or play there... and when you get down to it... he's improved to have a 0.0 VORP. And an 11.2 PER. Does that make him a bad player? Or, even a player who shouldn't be prized by the organization? No. But in a league where other 3rd year players are performing better and making a larger impact and showing more signs of growth... McDaniels still seems a long ways away from being more than just a guy.

- Edwards has similar counting stats to last year. But a look around the margins and there are areas for concern as discussed on this site in other threads. He came to camp out of shape. He's voiced his displeasure with the team's spacing. He had that possession where he just stood there. He admits he needs to be in better shape. He has ignored open teammates repeatedly to dribble, dribble, dribble his way into contested shots. His energy has waned in the early season. He has a negative VORP right now. Basically, there are more Wiggins similarities right now than similarities to Haliburton or Maxey.

Both McDaniels and Edwards arrived to the NBA with questions about maturity and effort. It's actually probably pretty unlikely both of them max out their potential. I assume both will improve throughout this season. But if they don't... and they stagnate or regress in year 3... NBA history tells us the Wolves (and its fans) should be very concerned.

Excellent post, Abe. This is a rare moment when I agree with all your points. :)

[Lipoli390]

I find it interesting how some of the guys on here maintained so much positive energy and faith in players to improve thru so many years where the team was just aweful. And now that we have a team filled with talent some of us have less confidence . It's almost worse than the cynicism every long suffering Vikings fan feels.

It's interesting but not surprising. With talent comes expectations. When your team mortgages its future in a "win-now" trade, you obviously expect your team to win now and you're not inclined to put faith in player improvement. The Wolves finished last season as a very good team on the rise. It's hard not to be cynical when that team fails to pick up where it left off and instead regresses the way he clearly has through 11 games this season.

I get that but it's not like they've been so bad that they've dug themselves a hole they can't get out of. Their .500 and have a better record than a handful of teams expected to be better than us. I know Your not a Rudy fan but he's not the issue. This team was always gonna be as good as Ant play makes them. So far it's been a bit underwhelming.

I totally agree with you on Gobert. While I'm not a fan of the Gobert trade, I've acknowledged that he's not the reason for the Wolves poor start this season. But it should be clear that he's not going to be the team's savior either. You nailed it with your observation that this team will ultimately be as good as Ant makes them. Draymond Green and a couple other really good NBA basketball minds pointed out before the season that the Gobert trade would make sense if Ant became a star. Far from becoming a star, Ant has regressed. Hence, the 5-6 start to the season. This team can still turn things around, but they need a catalyst. The problem is that I don't see who or what that catalyst will be absent a trade because I don't see any player on the roster who can fill that role.