Wiseman at #1

[Lipoli390]

I started a thread on Edwards last week and promised I'd start threads on some of the other top prospects. So here's a thread to discuss Wiseman. I still favor trading down and drafting Okongwu (or perhaps Deni, Vassell or Haliburton) if a reasonable deal can be had. Otherwise, if we keep the #1 pick, I'm on the fence between Wiseman and Edwards.

So here's the basic case for drafting and keeping Edwards, leaving room for others to add and elaborate:

1. He has tremendous length on par with elite NBA centers like Embiid and Gobert

2. He appears to have solid skills and very good mobility for someone his size

3. He put up elite numbers in college, albeit in only three game and fairly limited minutes. Wiseman averaged 23 minutes in his three college games. On a 36-minute basis, he averaged 30.8 points, 16.7 rebounds, 4.7 blocks and 9 foul shots per game. Note also that he shot 76.8% from the field and averaged 72% from the line. No other college player came remotely close to those numbers.

But here are some concerns and questions:

1. His college stats are on an extremely limited sample size of only three games at 23 minutes per game. Moreover, he didn't face any particularly good teams or top-level college bigs in any of those three games.

2. There are reports circulating that he doesn't give consistent effort and at least one report I read questioned whether he really loves the game. Some might argue that his decision to forego the rest of the college season supports the view that he doesn't love or isn't fully committed to the game. I'd say he had reason to be upset with the way he was treated and I never held his decision to leave against him. But it's fair to wonder how much he truly loves the game or whether he's fully commitment to the game given his decision to walk away from the game and his teammates and focus on the draft.

3. There are reports questioning his instincts and toughness. He's be described by some analysts as slow to react on the defensive end and preferring jump shots over attacking the rim on the offensive end.

4. Watching him play, I'm not blown away by what I see. I see the length and I like the way he runs the court. There's also some nice fluidity to his game. But he seems a bit slow laterally and doesn't strike me as having much quick-twitch explosiveness or small-area quickness. Moreover, he doesn't look strong, although his frame seems to have ample room for more muscle.

5. There's a long list of 7'0' busts in NBA draft history, including:
LaRue Martin
Todd Fuller
Robert Swift
Has been Thabeet
Darko Milicic
Shawn Bradley
Kandiman
Sam Bowie
Greg Oden

The last two ended up busts mainly because of physical issues. But the reasons for the others ending up as busts remain mysterious. Of course, we can come up with a list of draft busts at other positions as well. But I think there's a tendency to become unduly enticed by a prospect's length and his use of that length to dominate high school and college competition. I'm almost enticed why Wiseman's length and potential. But I have this gut feeling that he's not going to prosper in the NBA.

There are a number of things the Wolves front office will need to sort out about Wiseman, based on a lot more information than I'll ever have access to. If they decide not to draft him base on information that tends to confirm the concerns or questions I've raised then they will have made the right decision. However, if they decide not to draft him only because they don't believe he fits the modern NBA or the Wolves "system or style of play," then I'll be pissed. If the Wolves conclude that Wiseman has a very good chance of becoming a player on par with Embiid, Bosh, Duncan or even Gobert, then the Wolves should absolutely positively draft him at #1 and keep him.

The intrigue with Wiseman is that, if he becomes as good as many believe he can be, the Wolves would have a dominant twin-tower duo that would be extremely hard for other NBA teams to counter. It would be the quintessential strategic move that could put the Wolves front office in the conversation as one of the best in the NBA. If they draft him and he ends up a flop like so many bigs taken at or near the top of past NBA drafts, then we can just add it to the long list of Wolves' draft blunders.

Cam - I'm counting on you to talk me into going all in on Wiseman. :)

[Monster]

Is Okongwu's 25 points 15 rebounds nearly 5 blocks and 2.4 steals a game per 36 minutes in his first 3 games "remotely close" to Wiseman? ;)

I'm willing to be convinced about Wiseman but Lip like you I haven't seen anything that truly convinces me about him. I think everything surrounding him not playing for non-injury reasons last year should be considered but ai don't really hold anything against him in terms of deciding not to play. I'd be curious what Sam Mitchell has to say about Wiseman even though I don't believe he gets it right all the time he has still worked with a lot of these elite players so it's worthwhile to get his thoughts. I'll have to see if Wolfson had him on his podcast.

[AbeVigodaLive]

I know many on the board disagree... but should #6 be whether he's even a good fit next to the team's other 7 foot player? Having both on the floor might mean one of them is going to be attacked in space... a lot.

[BizarroJerry [enjin:6592520]]

I know many on the board disagree... but should #6 be whether he's even a good fit next to the team's other 7 foot player? Having both on the floor might mean one of them is going to be attacked in space... a lot.

*nods head in agreement*

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

God, I want to trade out of this pick so bad! All these guys have so many freakin' holes in their game...

As for Wiseman, if we absolutely can't trade down/trade out of the pick, I still think he's the guy we go with. I have no clue how he or KAT co-exist, but assuming we always want a Center on the court, there is 12-14 MPG available right away and then I think Saunders and Co. needs to get creative in finding ways to put both out there at the same time for stretches. May be they can come up with some creative zone defenses that takes advantage of all that length on the floor while limiting the amount of chasing they have to do.

[Wolvesfan21]

God, I want to trade out of this pick so bad! All these guys have so many freakin' holes in their game...

As for Wiseman, if we absolutely can't trade down/trade out of the pick, I still think he's the guy we go with. I have no clue how he or KAT co-exist, but assuming we always want a Center on the court, there is 12-14 MPG available right away and then I think Saunders and Co. needs to get creative in finding ways to put both out there at the same time for stretches. May be they can come up with some creative zone defenses that takes advantage of all that length on the floor while limiting the amount of chasing they have to do.

I think Edwards is the pick or we trade down. Like I said before unless Wiseman shows he is more then an older fashioned big in workouts, like having the ability to shoot 3's well and defend in space well then I don't see him going number 1. Can Edwards improve his decision making/passing ability/vision and defense? We can't afford more subpar defenders on this team.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

God, I want to trade out of this pick so bad! All these guys have so many freakin' holes in their game...

As for Wiseman, if we absolutely can't trade down/trade out of the pick, I still think he's the guy we go with. I have no clue how he or KAT co-exist, but assuming we always want a Center on the court, there is 12-14 MPG available right away and then I think Saunders and Co. needs to get creative in finding ways to put both out there at the same time for stretches. May be they can come up with some creative zone defenses that takes advantage of all that length on the floor while limiting the amount of chasing they have to do.

I think Edwards is the pick or we trade down. Like I said before unless Wiseman shows he is more then an older fashioned big in workouts, like having the ability to shoot 3's well and defend in space well then I don't see him going number 1. Can Edwards improve his decision making/passing ability/vision and defense? We can't afford more subpar defenders on this team.

None of these top 3 guys - Wiseman, Ball, Edwards - are good defenders yet.But Wiseman appears to have the physical profile that is the most likely to impact team defense IF he puts in the work and shows a willingness. We just don't know.

I can't imagine Edwards' reaction to being told to take a back seat with his offense and basically take the toughest wing assignment defensively and earn his points playing off the ball. But that's the exact role available if we re-sign Beasley and start him along with DLO and KAT. We need wing defense, hustle, and slashing. This feels like the opposite of how he's best used.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

Who told you guys that James Wiseman can't shoot? That he was an old-fashioned big? I'm seeing some odd takes on here lately.

[Wolvesfan21]

Who told you guys that James Wiseman can't shoot? That he was an old-fashioned big? I'm seeing some odd takes on here lately.

IDK, what was his 3P percentage in HS and college? I got him making 8/16 in AAU ball? Zero attempts in 3 games at Memphis. I said can he shoot from range, especially NBA 3P range?

Can he defend NBA guards off the pick? If he can be more then a traditional 5 then sure. I just don't know.

[kekgeek]

Who told you guys that James Wiseman can't shoot? That he was an old-fashioned big? I'm seeing some odd takes on here lately.

IDK, what was his 3P percentage in HS and college? I got him making 8/16 in AAU ball? Zero attempts in 3 games at Memphis. I said can he shoot from range, especially NBA 3P range?

Can he defend NBA guards off the pick? If he can be more then a traditional 5 then sure. I just don't know.

But Cam do we have any proof that he can shoot. Was 0/1 from 3 in college. Shot 8/16 in just over a attempt per game in AAU, he was 0/5 in HS all star games and playing for team USA. I can't find his HS shooting stats.

He shot a grand total of 4 shots outside the paint in the half court at Memphis and went 2/4.

That is to go with red flags of saying he has no handle, very poor shot selection in AAU and then even though he has all the tools to be an elite defender he gets lost on that end.

I hope he turns into the player you suggest in the defense of Gobert, post game embiid, shot of bosh and elite NBA athleticism