Let's just suppose we would try to trade our top pick. I'd like to see a list of who you would be willing to target and trade the pick for. We've already discussed Simmons and Booker at length, so let's put them on it to start. Let's stay away from obvious non candidates like Lebron, Kawhi, Curry, Durant, Donka, and Durant. The first guy that comes to mind for me is Rudy Gobert. He probably doesn't jive with the current philosophy, but what a difference a defensive anchor like that could make. KAT could play more outside as our best 3 point shooter. Our defense would improve dramatically. He wouldn't cost as much as some others. We would have a realistic chance of being a top 6 team in the conference. I know he's a little old (turned 28 this summer), but should be able to play for several more years.
Please add others you would be willing to entertain moving the #1 pick for.
Dangling #1
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BizarroJerry [enjin:6592520]
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- Joined: Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:00 am
Re: Dangling #1
Stephen Adams. Okc has about 500 picks in the next 5 years so he's expendable. Not sure what it would take but I always liked him.
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Camden [enjin:6601484]
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Re: Dangling #1
1. Ben Simmons
2. Devin Booker
3. Rudy Gobert
4. Bradley Beal
5. John Collins + Kevin Huerter (maybe?)
6. Buddy Hield + future first-round pick (maybe?)
2. Devin Booker
3. Rudy Gobert
4. Bradley Beal
5. John Collins + Kevin Huerter (maybe?)
6. Buddy Hield + future first-round pick (maybe?)
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Coolbreeze44
- Posts: 13192
- Joined: Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:00 am
Re: Dangling #1
Camden wrote:1. Ben Simmons
2. Devin Booker
3. Rudy Gobert
4. Bradley Beal
5. John Collins + Kevin Huerter (maybe?)
6. Buddy Hield + future first-round pick (maybe?)
Nice
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Camden [enjin:6601484]
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- Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2013 12:00 am
Re: Dangling #1
BizarroJerry wrote:Stephen Adams. Okc has about 500 picks in the next 5 years so he's expendable. Not sure what it would take but I always liked him.
There are plenty of bigs in this draft we can get in the late first or second and won't cost 25-million or whatever he's making. I like Adams, but it's a no from me.
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SameOldNudityDrew
- Posts: 3127
- Joined: Sat Jul 20, 2013 12:00 am
Re: Dangling #1
First of all, I don't think we have the assets to get any of the first 4 guys on Cam's list, even with the #1 pick here. We'd probably also have to include a good young player (which we don't really have other than KAT and DLO) and a future first rounder (which we can't really trade for the next couple years). Plus I think all those teams are going to keep those guys unless they're really blown away by an offer. The Wizards would be most likely, but that's probably only if they know Wall can't come back to his old self, and the reports are they are confident he's on his way back so they want to take another go with Wall and Beal.
Now, if it were possible to get those guys, my initial thought is that I'd love to have Gobert. Offensively, I think the two could co-exist because of KAT's ability to stretch the floor and because you could stagger their minutes so KAT could work offensively in the post as well at least sometimes. But I think the fit with KAT would actually be mixed defensively. We obviously need a defensive anchor in the paint next to KAT because he's been so disappointing in that regard. The problem is that it would increase the likelihood KAT would have to defend more on the perimeter, where he's even worse. At the same time, we've had two defenders in Taj and Cov next to KAT at the 4 the last few years, and that didn't work out great either.
The fundamental problem is that KAT just needs to defend better. Realistically, he needs to be our 5 and he needs to actually defend. He's shown flashes, and he certainly has the tools, but he needs to do it in a sustained way, and that requires a commitment and toughness that he frankly seems to lack. Without that, this team has to make all sorts of other compromises with the other guys on the floor, especially with DLO out there too, because DLO is an even worse defender. So arguably at the two most important defensive positions--on the ball and in the post--we have bad defenders. With these two, basically, we need the other three guys to be very good defenders who can ALSO carry some offense. In other words, we need guys like Jimmy Butler and Robert Covington. Instead, we've got guys who are mostly defense (Okogie, Culver) or mostly offense (Beasley, maybe).
Beal is not a bad defender, I don't think, but he's also not great. Now, he is a superstar on the offensive end, so maybe we could just give up on defense and try to outscore everyone. But I really think you need to have SOME kind of defense if you actually want to win.
Simmons can play both sides of the ball, but his nonexistent shooting will always be a liability you'd have to work around.
Booker is improving defensively, and at his age, he's definitely the best long-term bet. We'd have to just outscore every opponent and pray they have bad shooting nights unless those three show defensive improvement (DLO, Booker, and KAT). But the Suns are not going to trade him, so it's a moot point.
Honestly, Cam's possible trade #6 is probably the most realistic (I'd add a possible Jonathan Isaac + a first rounder next year to that list--the draft next year should be very good and we'll likely lose our pick), although I'm not sure how much those guys (Hield or Isaac--especially coming off the injury) would move the needle for us. Maybe Gordon instead? Either way, our #1 pick this year is not going to get us a star.
Maybe just trading down in this draft and picking up Vassell and a future first rounder would be our best bet, actually. Or trading down a bit and picking up a guy with some promise like Kevin Porter Jr. from Cleveland or Christian Wood from Detroit, then still taking Vassell, Okoro, or somebody like that. I'm spitballing here. It's a shame nobody has a couple picks to swap for our #1 pick. Though we do still have the #17 pick, so that would be a bit ridiculous to pick up 3 rookies this year!
At the end of the day, I know I sound like a broken record here, but I'm just skeptical that we can build anything like a contender with KAT and especially DLO as building blocks. I don't see a star in this draft either. There probably is one, but who knows who it is? I'm sure in a few years people will be saying "Why the hell did ________ fall all the way to #13?" or something. But that will likely be revisionist history. It'll be a guy that surprises everybody or makes a huge improvement. There's no consensus star here although it does look like there are some good role players. Edwards looks to be a good, but probably inefficient scorer who doesn't defend--the last thing we need. I like the potential pull-up game he brings, but watch his feet on his jump shots. He's inconsistent and kicks his feet out asymmetrically (usually right foot forward even more than the left) and as a result he shoots off-balance frequently. That's probably a big reason why he shoots a low percentage. It's not as awful as LaMelo, but it's just not a good sign. Now, defensively, the tools are there. And I guess you could hope they come along. Seems like a good kid. But man, that's a tough gamble to take with a #1 pick. Wiseman is interesting, but again, I don't see the fit with KAT on the floor at the same time. LaMelo would make me want to puke. He would literally double down on our existing weaknesses. There are some interesting possible role players (I like the look of Vassell, Bey, and other guys) who could end up being very valuable like Covington, but we don't have a good enough core yet to start thinking about role players. The first priority should be to get a star, and since I don't really see a sure one in the draft, trading for something like one would be the best bet. But the possibilities there are limited, and the results might still be mixed. Again, for me, it all comes down to KAT and DLO as flawed cornerstones. I really hope I'm wrong, but I honestly think the best thing for this franchise long-term would probably actually be to move those guys, starting with DLO. Of course, I know that'll never happen because we just traded for him, but I can't help but think it's the best path forward. That and getting a new coach--since we're obviously keeping DLO, getting Atkinson should really be a top priority this summer.
Now, if it were possible to get those guys, my initial thought is that I'd love to have Gobert. Offensively, I think the two could co-exist because of KAT's ability to stretch the floor and because you could stagger their minutes so KAT could work offensively in the post as well at least sometimes. But I think the fit with KAT would actually be mixed defensively. We obviously need a defensive anchor in the paint next to KAT because he's been so disappointing in that regard. The problem is that it would increase the likelihood KAT would have to defend more on the perimeter, where he's even worse. At the same time, we've had two defenders in Taj and Cov next to KAT at the 4 the last few years, and that didn't work out great either.
The fundamental problem is that KAT just needs to defend better. Realistically, he needs to be our 5 and he needs to actually defend. He's shown flashes, and he certainly has the tools, but he needs to do it in a sustained way, and that requires a commitment and toughness that he frankly seems to lack. Without that, this team has to make all sorts of other compromises with the other guys on the floor, especially with DLO out there too, because DLO is an even worse defender. So arguably at the two most important defensive positions--on the ball and in the post--we have bad defenders. With these two, basically, we need the other three guys to be very good defenders who can ALSO carry some offense. In other words, we need guys like Jimmy Butler and Robert Covington. Instead, we've got guys who are mostly defense (Okogie, Culver) or mostly offense (Beasley, maybe).
Beal is not a bad defender, I don't think, but he's also not great. Now, he is a superstar on the offensive end, so maybe we could just give up on defense and try to outscore everyone. But I really think you need to have SOME kind of defense if you actually want to win.
Simmons can play both sides of the ball, but his nonexistent shooting will always be a liability you'd have to work around.
Booker is improving defensively, and at his age, he's definitely the best long-term bet. We'd have to just outscore every opponent and pray they have bad shooting nights unless those three show defensive improvement (DLO, Booker, and KAT). But the Suns are not going to trade him, so it's a moot point.
Honestly, Cam's possible trade #6 is probably the most realistic (I'd add a possible Jonathan Isaac + a first rounder next year to that list--the draft next year should be very good and we'll likely lose our pick), although I'm not sure how much those guys (Hield or Isaac--especially coming off the injury) would move the needle for us. Maybe Gordon instead? Either way, our #1 pick this year is not going to get us a star.
Maybe just trading down in this draft and picking up Vassell and a future first rounder would be our best bet, actually. Or trading down a bit and picking up a guy with some promise like Kevin Porter Jr. from Cleveland or Christian Wood from Detroit, then still taking Vassell, Okoro, or somebody like that. I'm spitballing here. It's a shame nobody has a couple picks to swap for our #1 pick. Though we do still have the #17 pick, so that would be a bit ridiculous to pick up 3 rookies this year!
At the end of the day, I know I sound like a broken record here, but I'm just skeptical that we can build anything like a contender with KAT and especially DLO as building blocks. I don't see a star in this draft either. There probably is one, but who knows who it is? I'm sure in a few years people will be saying "Why the hell did ________ fall all the way to #13?" or something. But that will likely be revisionist history. It'll be a guy that surprises everybody or makes a huge improvement. There's no consensus star here although it does look like there are some good role players. Edwards looks to be a good, but probably inefficient scorer who doesn't defend--the last thing we need. I like the potential pull-up game he brings, but watch his feet on his jump shots. He's inconsistent and kicks his feet out asymmetrically (usually right foot forward even more than the left) and as a result he shoots off-balance frequently. That's probably a big reason why he shoots a low percentage. It's not as awful as LaMelo, but it's just not a good sign. Now, defensively, the tools are there. And I guess you could hope they come along. Seems like a good kid. But man, that's a tough gamble to take with a #1 pick. Wiseman is interesting, but again, I don't see the fit with KAT on the floor at the same time. LaMelo would make me want to puke. He would literally double down on our existing weaknesses. There are some interesting possible role players (I like the look of Vassell, Bey, and other guys) who could end up being very valuable like Covington, but we don't have a good enough core yet to start thinking about role players. The first priority should be to get a star, and since I don't really see a sure one in the draft, trading for something like one would be the best bet. But the possibilities there are limited, and the results might still be mixed. Again, for me, it all comes down to KAT and DLO as flawed cornerstones. I really hope I'm wrong, but I honestly think the best thing for this franchise long-term would probably actually be to move those guys, starting with DLO. Of course, I know that'll never happen because we just traded for him, but I can't help but think it's the best path forward. That and getting a new coach--since we're obviously keeping DLO, getting Atkinson should really be a top priority this summer.
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khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]
- Posts: 6414
- Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2013 12:00 am
Re: Dangling #1
Simmons - Philly might make some major changes this summer based on the playoffs so far and they don't have a lot of options outside of trading Simmons or Embiid unless they blackmail someone into taking Horford or Harris. They've always needed a true scoring guard to pair with Embiid and Edwards fits the bill.
Booker - The Suns don't want to trade him after the bubble high but real stars get where they want to go so it's on Devin to get himself here if he wants. Blow it up like Jimmy and leave nothing but ashes.
Beal - Washington probably doesn't want to do this either until they try one more run back with Wall/Beal even though they should have blown it up while Wall was injured.
Oladipo - next year is the last of his deal and that team is looking pretty capped with their potential. They may look to blow it up now with consistent mid-seedings in the playoffs. This is the biggest risk of the 4 especially with the injury history, but he's exactly what we need next to D Lo. I'd want him extended right away if this happened and will take on the injury risk with the crap-shoot that is the top of this draft. He just turned 28 this year and has only played in 421 out of a possible 565 regular season games so he should have plenty in the tank for the next 4-5 years at which point we will have been able to retain Towns and D Lo and can actually go after Booker when he finally wants out.
Those are the only 4 realistic targets I see that would be worth the #1 pick IMO. We could just take Wiseman if we wanted a Gobert type big and Wiseman has much higher upside as a two way player and will be much cheaper for much longer. A dark horse candidate could be Donovan Mitchell. It sucks to be in Utah as a NBA player, his relationship with Gobert is rocky and they are hard stuck on that team in the West. He's coming up on his extension and could try to force his way out. One can dream the MN would be on his list of destinations lol.
Booker - The Suns don't want to trade him after the bubble high but real stars get where they want to go so it's on Devin to get himself here if he wants. Blow it up like Jimmy and leave nothing but ashes.
Beal - Washington probably doesn't want to do this either until they try one more run back with Wall/Beal even though they should have blown it up while Wall was injured.
Oladipo - next year is the last of his deal and that team is looking pretty capped with their potential. They may look to blow it up now with consistent mid-seedings in the playoffs. This is the biggest risk of the 4 especially with the injury history, but he's exactly what we need next to D Lo. I'd want him extended right away if this happened and will take on the injury risk with the crap-shoot that is the top of this draft. He just turned 28 this year and has only played in 421 out of a possible 565 regular season games so he should have plenty in the tank for the next 4-5 years at which point we will have been able to retain Towns and D Lo and can actually go after Booker when he finally wants out.
Those are the only 4 realistic targets I see that would be worth the #1 pick IMO. We could just take Wiseman if we wanted a Gobert type big and Wiseman has much higher upside as a two way player and will be much cheaper for much longer. A dark horse candidate could be Donovan Mitchell. It sucks to be in Utah as a NBA player, his relationship with Gobert is rocky and they are hard stuck on that team in the West. He's coming up on his extension and could try to force his way out. One can dream the MN would be on his list of destinations lol.
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Camden [enjin:6601484]
- Posts: 18065
- Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2013 12:00 am
Re: Dangling #1
I considered adding Victor Oladipo to my list, but I don't see the Pacers making him available at any time and I think he's open to re-signing there. Indiana has a good thing going. Malcolm Brogdon, T.J. Warren, Domantas Sabonis, and Myles Turner are all good players, but Oladipo is the straw that stirs the drink. They can't afford to let him go.
Re: Dangling #1
With the lack of clear cut top level talent in this draft I dont think we're getting a star if we trade the pick. I think trading down within the draft may be the smartest move.