Some promising lineup data emerging

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Kekgeek has done a great job tracking and updating us on our W-L record when DLO and KAT play together. To get more granular, I think we have very promising data coming in when it comes to our starting lineup.

4-man lineup data for Vanderbilt-DLO-Ant-KAT:

Season/Games/Minutes/Ortg/Drtg/Net Rtg
'20-21: 11 Games/92 minutes/121.8/102.5/+19.3
'21-22: 15 Games/183 minutes/122.2/91.4/+30.7

It's not a huge sample size, but it does capture time spent together for 26 games across two different seasons, so I don't think we should completely discount the data.

Vanderbilt is becoming an almost ideal complimentary player to the "big three" because he does two things really well that doesn't require touches: Defend and extend possessions with offensive rebounds.

If these four keep this up, it may not really matter all that much who the 5th starter is.

[SameOldNudityDrew]

Nice work Q.

I love watching Vando play. Just the nonstop fucking hustle of this guy, especially on the boards. My favorite players have always been guys like that. Max effort, 100% of the time. Brewer is still my favorite T-Wolf of all time, but Vando's climbing my personal rankings fast.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Nice work Q.

I love watching Vando play. Just the nonstop fucking hustle of this guy, especially on the boards. My favorite players have always been guys like that. Max effort, 100% of the time. Brewer is still my favorite T-Wolf of all time, but Vando's climbing my personal rankings fast.

I love these kinds of guys too Drew. Brewer was fun to watch, but his effort didn't yield the same kind of results that we see from Vando. We can draw a straight line from Vando's effort level to how it directly impacts winning basketball. Brewer's poor shooting and undisciplined approach to defense sort of offset his all out hustle. Vando does foul a lot and still gets a case of the turnover yips, but otherwise his good traits are winning out over the bad ones.

I think the bigger story here is that if this trend holds, the main priority for the front office needs to be on improving the bench. That is a much easier job than feeling like we need to rebuild or swap out over half of the starting lineup. Again, that's IF this positive trend holds.

[SameOldNudityDrew]

Yeah, I can definitely see Vando making a more positive impact on the team than Brewer did if this continues. And it's a huge bonus he's so easy to root for. Neither Vando nor Brewer would be on anyone's Best Timberwolves of All Time list, but I agree that Vando looks to have a good chance surpass Corey's impact if this continues.

Lemme just talk about Corey a minute though. There were just so many things I loved about Corey. His hustle, his Jack Skellington frame, the way he wore such a huge jersey at Florida that it looked like he was a stick in a bedsheet. When he got old and bald and grew out that manic beard he looked like a contestant for the world's ugliest dog. I loved it all. But what I especially loved about Brewer was his personality, especially as it appeared on his face. The dude's face was a book that wrote whatever he was feeling for all to read. Mostly he was feeling a mix of disbelief and joy, like he was a just regular guy who woke up with no memory of who he was and discovered that he was an NBA player and couldn't believe his luck. What's crazy is that never seemed to wear off. Like some kind of reverse-Groundhog Day, he woke up to a new day every day but seemed to have forgotten what a lucky dude he was so he got to experience the joy of playing his first NBA game literally every day he played. I think that explains his hustle too.

You can see a bit of that in Vando and a bit in Josh too. Pat Bev is a different kind of hustle guy, tougher to love, though I really appreciate him too. As I said when we got him, he's a bit dirty, a bit of a flopper, and more than a bit of an asshole--and I'm so glad we got him. I probably wouldn't want to hang out with Pat Bev more than a few times, but I personally like JO, Vando, and Brewer. There's a regular-guy quality to those guys that makes it hard not to root for them.

Sorry for the detour. Now, back to stats!

[Q-is-here]

Update:

5-man lineup - 142 minutes and 13 games
PBev/Vando/KAT/Ant/DLO - +50.5

4-Man lineup - 291 minutes and 21 games
Vando/KAT/Ant/DLO - + 32.3

3-Man lineup - 503 minutes and 25 games
KAT/Edwards/DLO - +17.2

Combined with what we saw last year, I think we have a pretty good core group here! Fix the bench!

[FNG]

I know we clearly have a Big 3 here and some are not fond of JO's game, but I like him...especially on D with PatBev out. Hard to argue with this stat from Moore's twitter feed:

Josh Okogie has only played 330 minutes -- been in and out of the rotation -- but Okogie is 5th in the NBA Defensive Effective Plus-Minus this season.

1. Draymond Green (+4.5)
2. Gary Payton II (+4.4)
3. Jarred Vanderbilt (+3.4)
4. Evan Mobley (+3.4)
5. Josh Okogie (+3.0)

By the way, is there anyone even close to Evan Mobley for ROY this year? I hope not. Some pretty good defensive company for Vando and JO to be in with.

[Q-is-here]

I know we clearly have a Big 3 here and some are not fond of JO's game, but I like him...especially on D with PatBev out. Hard to argue with this stat from Moore's twitter feed:

Josh Okogie has only played 330 minutes -- been in and out of the rotation -- but Okogie is 5th in the NBA Defensive Effective Plus-Minus this season.

1. Draymond Green (+4.5)
2. Gary Payton II (+4.4)
3. Jarred Vanderbilt (+3.4)
4. Evan Mobley (+3.4)
5. Josh Okogie (+3.0)

By the way, is there anyone even close to Evan Mobley for ROY this year? I hope not. Some pretty good defensive company for Vando and JO to be in with.

I actually think JO is finally being properly utilized. Prior to this season, he averaged 20+ minutes in each of his prior three seasons. He never grew into a top 8 rotational role, which is a shame because coming out of college it appeared he had the potential to be our version of Jae Crowder. But alas, his 3-point shot never developed and in fact regressed significantly from what we saw at the college level (shocking, I know).

This year he's averaging 14 MPG and will get occasional DNP-CDs. He's used as a pure wing defender/energizer bunny for brief stints. That seems to be the appropriate role for him.

My fear is that we are sitting here two or three years from now and find McDaniels in a similar situation - a very situation, niche player. He needs to become more of a threat as a shooter and stop the serial fouling. Hopefully he can actually develop and expand his skills, unlike Okogie.

[AbeVigodaLive]

I know we clearly have a Big 3 here and some are not fond of JO's game, but I like him...especially on D with PatBev out. Hard to argue with this stat from Moore's twitter feed:

Josh Okogie has only played 330 minutes -- been in and out of the rotation -- but Okogie is 5th in the NBA Defensive Effective Plus-Minus this season.

1. Draymond Green (+4.5)
2. Gary Payton II (+4.4)
3. Jarred Vanderbilt (+3.4)
4. Evan Mobley (+3.4)
5. Josh Okogie (+3.0)

By the way, is there anyone even close to Evan Mobley for ROY this year? I hope not. Some pretty good defensive company for Vando and JO to be in with.

I actually think JO is finally being properly utilized. Prior to this season, he averaged 20+ minutes in each of his prior three seasons. He never grew into a top 8 rotational role, which is a shame because coming out of college it appeared he had the potential to be our version of Jae Crowder. But alas, his 3-point shot never developed and in fact regressed significantly from what we saw at the college level (shocking, I know).

This year he's averaging 14 MPG and will get occasional DNP-CDs. He's used as a pure wing defender/energizer bunny for brief stints. That seems to be the appropriate role for him.

My fear is that we are sitting here two or three years from now and find McDaniels in a similar situation - a very situation, niche player. He needs to become more of a threat as a shooter and stop the serial fouling. Hopefully he can actually develop and expand his skills, unlike Okogie.

Just a couple of odd McDaniels nuggets in recent games...

- Giving up the ball on a lazy pass vs. OKC in the backcourt... but the bigger part of the play was not high-tailing it back into the play after it happened. OKC ended up getting a follow-up tip in as a result.
- Chucking the ball at an opposing player last night. The officials missed it, so there wasn't a technical. Then, McDaniels forced things offensively right after the break.

Minor things. But just something that seemed out of the normal McDaniels type things we see.

[BloopOracle]

Vanderbilt is getting some love from espn, they have him in their top 8 ranking for defensive player of the year

[Q-is-here]

Vanderbilt is getting some love from espn, they have him in their top 8 ranking for defensive player of the year

Nice!