Rubio

[Porckchop]

As a veteran presence does he sway the needle enough in the W/L department to justify his salary? Or does he handicap the the youngsters by eating up their minutes and not letting them realize more talent then he ever realized?

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

He's the only true PG on the team so I think he is worth it. I just wouldn't have traded 17 for him given the current needs of the team.

[thedoper]

No he doesnt move the needle enough. But he's likeable, and Taylor is grasping at straws to have any positive narrative around the team hes trying to sell.

[FNG]

We're already the youngest roster in the league. Adding two more late first rounders/second rounders instead of picking up a proven NBA PG might have been positive for our G-League team, but it wouldn't have helped our NBA team. While the prospect of 5 guys under the age of 24 running chaotically around the court might have been entertaining for a few games, I think the mounting losses would have become insufferable. The only player on our current roster who had more win shares than Ricky last year was KAT, and it was fun to see the positive impact he had on the Suns last year. Devin Booker has talked about how much Ricky helped him in his development. We have a lot of young players with arguably high ceilings, and they need some veteran guidance and a pass-first PG and savvy defender to help them get to those ceilings. All I have to ask myself when I wonder whether trading for Ricky was worth it is this: who was going to help these young potential stars blossom this year- someone who was available at the back end of the first round, or Ricky? I think the answer is pretty obvious.

[60WinTim]

We haven't played a single regular season game and Pork is leading the Rubio-Controversy Train. Nice!

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

The right answer is a bit of both. Does Ricky Rubio help the team win? I think he does, but in a supportive role only. He's not the caliber of player that can will a team to victory by himself, but he can get the guy(s) that can enough good looks to where they can, if that makes sense. It's an A plus B equals C type of equation where C is winning a basketball game.

Does the acquisition of Rubio handicap the development of some of the Wolves' young players? Absolutely, yes, and there's no debating that. Firstly, he stands in the way of Jordan McLaughlin and Jaylen Nowell from getting significant minutes on a nightly basis. The latter of those two might not see much playing time at all this season and was potentially in danger of being waived to balance the roster. Rubio also takes minutes away from one of Jarrett Culver, Anthony Edwards, and Josh Okogie whenever he's sharing the court with D'Angelo Russell. How often that pairing will be on the court together remains to be seen, but it's fair to speculate that it'll be a moderate amount of minutes down the stretch of games.

And then there's the cost factor. What was given up for Rubio and will that hurt the Wolves' future? I'm in the minority on this one, but my answer is yes. Minnesota traded $16-million expiring contract in James Johnson and the 17th overall pick for Rubio and two late first-round picks -- a price that exceeded what other NBA teams gave up for more valuable players. Could Johnson's salary have been used in a different trade that would have been more beneficial to the Wolves in the present and future? That's a possibility. Will there be a prospect that was drafted at 17 or before 25 that turns out to be a worthwhile player? In my mind there will be.

Rubio definitely helps the team win in the present -- albeit in a limited fashion. He undoubtedly requires minutes that some of the younger Wolves need for their own development. And the price Minnesota decided to pay for Rubio will prove to have been too high.

[FNG]

I think that's a fair assessment, camden. I also am somewhat intrigued by Nowell and J-Mac, and agree that Rubio will force one or both to go to Iowa. But there will be injuries and Covid this year, so I think an Iowa banishment isn't as serious this year perhaps as others- we will see both of them a few times this season, and if they can prove themselves to be worthy, they have a chance to stay. I think we can all agree that Nowell has yet to prove himself worthy in his regular season Target Center appearances, although he has been very good in Iowa and preseason.

Ultimately I'm more intrigued by Edwards, Culver, our young PF's and Reid than I am by J-Mac and Nowell, and I think Rubio's presence enhances their development rather than hampers it. Trading for Rubio was a win now move, and I'm in favor of it. I think it definitely helps us this year, while keeping a couple non lottery picks might have helped us in the future. I'll take the more assured bet. I don't think I'm alone among Wolves fans in being tired of betting on the future at the expense of the present.

[Lipoli390]

No he doesnt move the needle enough. But he's likeable, and Taylor is grasping at straws to have any positive narrative around the team hes trying to sell.

I agree that he moves the needle, but not enough. I think Cam's analysis is spot on, especially his point about Ricky stifling the development of some of our younger guys. I also agree with Kahns that Ricky wasn't worth the 17th pick given the team's needs. And I'm a big Rubio fan.

But I'll just note that I doubt the Rubio acquisition had nothing to do with Glen Taylor. This was all Rosas. Remember that Rosas pursued Ricky in free agency last year and came up short. So, in typical Rosas fashion, he pursued him again in a trade. It's exactly what he did with DLO. Ricky was one of Gersson's guys, for better or for worse, from the moment he got here. Rosas fell in love with H-Gomez and Beasley and wasn't about to let either one get away in free agency. By the way, I'm OK with the Beasley signing.

The sometimes popular narrative that Glen injects himself into front office decision-making is false. Jon K has said that and I've talked with insiders over the years who have said the same thing. Glen didn't stop Thibodeau from trading Ricky. He also allowed Thibodeau to trade Zach LaVine and others. He's allowed Rosas to completely make over the roster and spend the team into luxury tax territory. He signed off on McHale's illegal Joe Smith. Glen generally makes bad hiring decisions and then lets his bad hires fail before replacing them with other bad hires. It's the sad tale of this franchise. If anything, I'd argue that Glen hasn't interferred enough to. The one time he intervened was when Butler was acting out. But in that case, I think Glen waited too long. And note that Glen's intervention in that instance was simple to delegate authority to Scott Layden to take over the Butler trade talks because Thibodeau was passively-aggressively resisting.

[JasonIsDaMan [enjin:7981157]]

No he doesnt move the needle enough. But he's likeable, and Taylor is grasping at straws to have any positive narrative around the team hes trying to sell.

I agree that he moves the needle, but not enough. I think Cam's analysis is spot on, especially his point about Ricky stifling the development of some of our younger guys. I also agree with Kahns that Ricky wasn't worth the 17th pick given the team's needs. And I'm a big Rubio fan.

But I'll just note that I doubt the Rubio acquisition had nothing to do with Glen Taylor. This was all Rosas. Remember that Rosas pursued Ricky in free agency last year and came up short. So, in typical Rosas fashion, he pursued him again in a trade. It's exactly what he did with DLO. Ricky was one of Gersson's guys, for better or for worse, from the moment he got here. Rosas fell in love with H-Gomez and Beasley and wasn't about to let either one get away in free agency. By the way, I'm OK with the Beasley signing.

The sometimes popular narrative that Glen injects himself into front office decision-making is false. Jon K has said that and I've talked with insiders over the years who have said the same thing. Glen didn't stop Thibodeau from trading Ricky. He also allowed Thibodeau to trade Zach LaVine and others. He's allowed Rosas to completely make over the roster and spend the team into luxury tax territory. He signed off on McHale's illegal Joe Smith. Glen generally makes bad hiring decisions and then lets his bad hires fail before replacing them with other bad hires. It's the sad tale of this franchise. If anything, I'd argue that Glen hasn't interferred enough to. The one time he intervened was when Butler was acting out. But in that case, I think Glen waited too long. And note that Glen's intervention in that instance was simple to delegate authority to Scott Layden to take over the Butler trade talks because Thibodeau was passively-aggressively resisting.

A few things
1. This post, especially the last paragraph, should be MANDATORY reading the next time somebody feels like shooting their mouth off about Terry Ryan or Rick Spielmann. The Yankees had twice the payroll, and Blair Walsh missed a FG that grandmas make at the state fair for a teddy bear....but it can't all be (Trump Fan) Mchale's fault, and Adrian Payne was Glen's idea? Give me a brake.
2. I do seem to remember Sam Cassell acting up at a public event, which led to Glen telling Mchale to get rid of him, which led to the Adriana Lima trade, but I may be remembering it wrong. And even if I have it right, a lot of owners would have done the same.
3. This is Rossas. He learned from former Eagan resident Darryl Morrey, who got more out of Chandler Parsons and Chase Budinger than he got out of Royce White. 15-30 and 31-45 is not that big of a difference to him. He wants big contracts to move for other big (but better) contracts when the moment presents itself. And if he can move BlondeRicky at the deadline for someone he likes better, he will.
4. Few things pain me more than watching the rehabilitation of Jimmy Butler's image. I was so looking forward to the "Dallas Terrell Owens" phase.

[thedoper]

No he doesnt move the needle enough. But he's likeable, and Taylor is grasping at straws to have any positive narrative around the team hes trying to sell.

I agree that he moves the needle, but not enough. I think Cam's analysis is spot on, especially his point about Ricky stifling the development of some of our younger guys. I also agree with Kahns that Ricky wasn't worth the 17th pick given the team's needs. And I'm a big Rubio fan.

But I'll just note that I doubt the Rubio acquisition had nothing to do with Glen Taylor. This was all Rosas. Remember that Rosas pursued Ricky in free agency last year and came up short. So, in typical Rosas fashion, he pursued him again in a trade. It's exactly what he did with DLO. Ricky was one of Gersson's guys, for better or for worse, from the moment he got here. Rosas fell in love with H-Gomez and Beasley and wasn't about to let either one get away in free agency. By the way, I'm OK with the Beasley signing.

The sometimes popular narrative that Glen injects himself into front office decision-making is false. Jon K has said that and I've talked with insiders over the years who have said the same thing. Glen didn't stop Thibodeau from trading Ricky. He also allowed Thibodeau to trade Zach LaVine and others. He's allowed Rosas to completely make over the roster and spend the team into luxury tax territory. He signed off on McHale's illegal Joe Smith. Glen generally makes bad hiring decisions and then lets his bad hires fail before replacing them with other bad hires. It's the sad tale of this franchise. If anything, I'd argue that Glen hasn't interferred enough to. The one time he intervened was when Butler was acting out. But in that case, I think Glen waited too long. And note that Glen's intervention in that instance was simple to delegate authority to Scott Layden to take over the Butler trade talks because Thibodeau was passively-aggressively resisting.

I dont think Glen has to inject himself in every day to day decision, but he's established in multiple interviews that he likes to be aware and approve transactions, it seems he doesnt meddle until big decisions need to be made, when his initial bad hiring necessitates change. Glen forced Rosas with a novice coach, top level meddling in basketball decisions. You think that when Rosas announced his potential initial pursuit of Rubio he wasnt emboldened by the enthusiastic response of his boss and his "head coach"? I think he was so emboldened that he even gave up a draft pick that no other team as bad as us would give up for Rubio. Glen meddled with KG, meddled post KG, fell asleep for a few years while the team rotted, meddled with love, and now we are reaping the results of Glens biggest meddling move of forcing an experienced coach into a position of power in the organization based on a relationship. Jon K loves his occasional chats with Taylor, hes not going to give up that access by being too hard on the guy. I get that everyone wants to honor his stubbornness in keeping the team in Minnesota, its admirable. But he's the worst kind of owner, inept when he motivates himself to get involved, and asleep at all other times.