Fuel on the fire...

[AbeVigodaLive]

Listened to the beginning of a podcast with the new Memphis coach, David Fizdale . It basically starts off with the importance of a coach being able to connect with today's players.

They went on about how today's players (kids) are a different breed and that the old days of a powerful coach barking at them with arms crossed won't work.

Memphis is a surprising 18 - 11 with several key injuries, including its star PG and expensive FA Chandler Parsons.
Minnesota is a surprising 7 - 19, which is a dip from last season despite a very healthy squad.



[note: hey, at least angst is better than apathy, right?]

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Oooh boy, LST will jump all over this!

We'll see. Thibs might be one of those guys you dislike in the moment, then later come to appreciate his impact. He's definitely playing a long game with these guys. The question is will it make them stronger or make them a bunch of nervous wrecks that can't get out of their own way? So far it's more of the latter.

[kekgeek]

Oooh boy, LST will jump all over this!

We'll see. Thibs might be one of those guys you dislike in the moment, then later come to appreciate his impact. He's definitely playing a long game with these guys. The question is will it make them stronger or make them a bunch of nervous wrecks that can't get out of their own way? So far it's more of the latter.

The thing is if we didn't absolutely choke like you mentioned in your awareness thread this weekend we are taking about how we might have turned the corner. I do think they will but we will see

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

I think Thibs has connected just fine with the players. I think he's more than okay in that regard, actually. I just think we have a bunch of young players who were never forced to learn fundamentals because their talent and athleticism was always enough at lower levels. As a result, when teams put pressure on us and play mistake-free at crucial points of the game, more often than not we've crumbled. Thibs is having to instill basic principles into them before he can even get into the detailed nuances of his system. I think evidence of that is LaVine said in a podcast a couple weeks ago how he has never been taught how to defend off-ball. We also saw a report about how Thibs hasn't unraveled the many layers of his defense yet. He's having to teach them as if they were babies. We've already seen some defensive improvement over the last couple games and we should see more of that as the season continues. Thibs is playing the long game, and it's funny that the people who expected him to be impatient are now the ones actually being impatient themselves. Oh, the irony in that.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Oooh boy, LST will jump all over this!

We'll see. Thibs might be one of those guys you dislike in the moment, then later come to appreciate his impact. He's definitely playing a long game with these guys. The question is will it make them stronger or make them a bunch of nervous wrecks that can't get out of their own way? So far it's more of the latter.

The thing is if we didn't absolutely choke like you mentioned in your awareness thread this weekend we are taking about how we might have turned the corner. I do think they will but we will see

Exactly. A case could be made that it's only a matter of time before this team "breaks out", however you want to define it. If you look at metrics other than wins and losses, we are more like the 20th worst team in the league versus 29th or 30th:

Margin of Victory - 20th
Strength of Schedule - 4th
Pythagorean Wins - 23rd
Simple Rating System - 19th

Of course, this harkens back to 2013-14 when we were statistically way better than our final record and we were supposedly more like a 48-win versus 40-win team. Unfortunately, they don't hand out trophies for Pythagorean Wins.

And we've all seen it with our own eyes. They played 45 minutes of great basketball against Houston. They've had some amazing first halves. But once things get tight and the pressure is on, it's just one mental error after another.

[Lipoli390]

The last two games give me a sense that this team is on the verge of a breakout. But I do think some self reflection by key players AND the head coach are keys to making that happen. If we're controlling the game for 45 minutes with Ricky and Zach running the offense, Thibs just might want to keep doing the last 3 minutes what was working the previous 45.

Addressing Cam's point about Thibs playing the long game, I'm still in on the long game. But my idea of the long game is keeping and playing our young guys. Credit to Thibs for doing just that. And I'm still all in on keeping our young core and playing them even though we might need to consider trading Wiggins next summer. I just don't want it see our young players used in ways that fail to optimize their abilities and the team's chances winning. I don't think having Wiggins play point forward in crunch time will do much to help the long-term prospects of Wiggins or the team.

And I still find it hard to believe that Thibs is making game-day decisions that he knows will hurt our chances of winning because of his assessment it will help the long-term development of the team. If he is I might be ok with it if not for the fact that both Zach and Andrew are up for extensions next Fall and one of them will likely have to accept a 4-year deal. Winning and showing marked improvement are important factors getting them both, especially the 4-year guy, to stay. Winning and significant improvement are also keys to attracting a quality free agent or two.

But believe it or not, I haven't given up hope. As I mentioned above, I can see this team turning it around the last half of this season and finishing strong. That would be huge. And to Thibs credit, it looks like he's getting these guys to step it up defensively.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

I'm not sure you can come up with a more dramatic example of the difference coaching can have on a team...good or bad...than looking at Memphis and Minnesota at the end of last year compared to the start of this year. They have played 29 and 26 games, respectively, and here is a comparison for each team to the corresponding number of games at the end of last year:


Memphis: 2015-6: 11-18 2016-7: 18-11

Minnesota: 2015-6: 12-14 2016-7: 7-19

So despite Memphis having injuries to some key players and the Wolves being much healthier, the Grizzlies have improved 7 games and the Wolves have gotten worse by 5 games...that's a remarkable 12-game swing in a short period of time, and the most significant change for both teams is just a new head coach (well, unless you want to make an argument for Jordan Hill)...and the two new coaches have completely different styles. Can there be a better endorsement for Fizdale or indictment for Thibs than this comparison?

Fizdale is not saying anything earthshattering...a few of us said the exact same things last spring during the coaching search. Times change, and smart franchises adjust accordingly. But not our Wolves, who instead chose a recycled 58-year-old coach with little chance of connecting with this new breed of players...and the results couldn't be any more predictable. I enjoy listening to Thibs talk basketball, at least in his quieter non-game moments...I don't know much about Fizdale's X's and O's ability, but I would guess that he is inferior to thibs. But it's not about that...it's about being able to connect with your players in order to get the most out of their abilities. Anyone who says Thibs is connecting well with his players needs to watch the game a little closer, especially in person.

I'm not giving up on this season...anyone with a modicum of basketball acumen can see the enormous talent this team has (analysts practically drool when talking about the talent level), and even our POBO called this roster the best young talent in basketball. All Thibs has to do to earn his $8 million is step back and stay out of the way. Give an occasional pat on the butt like Fizdale (and most other new breed coaches) do, and don't be afraid to experiment with lineups. Trust your backups and play them more so your starters are fresher at the end of the game. If Thibs is smart enough to change and does it soon, this team can still challenge for the playoffs...they are that talented. But if not, the 2017 draft thread will get a lot more attention than the GDTs.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Long...

I think it's inaccurate (or disingenuous) to use the squad Memphis was throwing out there at the end of last season as any meaningful kind of metric.

They've had injuries this season... but last season they were a glorified D League team down the stretch. I can go through the assortment of starters (some 10-day contract guys) they were throwing out there just to field a team. Before the injuries hit... they were a 50+ win team.

But if we're looking at just this season... the point about Memphis and Fizdale stands because they're 18 - 11 with a depleted (but not barren) roster.

[Monster]

So where is the actual evidence that Thibs doesn't personally connect with the current players?

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

So where is the actual evidence that Thibs doesn't personally connect with the current players?

You know better, monster. There isn't any actual evidence at our disposal, but there is plenty of biased speculation based on little to nothing.