Offense vs Defense (and a conversation about Malik)

[FNG]

I apologize in advance for the long post. Feel free to tldr me.

There are clearly some very sharp basketball minds here, so it's surprising to me (and also fun) that there is so much divergence of opinion about the value of certain T-Wolves...most significantly DLO of course, but also some others. I'm not going to conclude that anyone is right or wrong about DLO, only differing in opinion. But DLO is such an extreme example of a 1-way player, I'm going to throw out an hypothesis that whether you think DLO is really valuable or not has much to do with whether you value offense or defense more. And perhaps, whether you value offense or defense more might have something to do with what kind of player you were (are). In my case, I was never a very good shooter and only an average offensive player in general. But I was always able to land a starting role at all levels I played at because of my defense and rebounding. I think my coaches always knew I was never going to lead the team in scoring or be the go to guy in crunch time, but they were confident I would put more points on the board than the guy I was guarding. I think that because D was my calling card, it's the quality I value most in a player. I always stressed defense when I was coaching (kid level only), and generally want the best defenders starting the game for my Timberwolves. I still look fondly back on those 19-15 first quarters when an aging KG and Tayshaun Prince were starting!

While it seems that the emphasis here is on offense (I would say offensive comments outnumber defensive comments at least 5 to 1 in GDTs), there are a few guys who seem to value defense more like I do...CoolBreeze and Q come to mind just off the top of my head (although I may have misread their preference). And defense-oriented guys are more likely to see DLO as a very good scorer who nonetheless has proven to be a negative player on every team he has played on. My conclusion is we are stuck with DLO since he is a max player that Rosas traded for, so he is going to start for this team. My concern is who we put next to him. DLO is such a dreadful defender (80th out of 84 PGs this year, 129th out of 138 last year in DRPM!), we simply cannot have another poor defender next to him at SG.

And that gets me to Malik Beasley. I mentioned in the most recent GDT that a friend of mine with a great coaching background called me last night pre-game urging me to focus on Malik's defense. He said DLO is much maligned on defense, but Malik gets a pass because he seems to be working so hard. He said there was a reason Malik was a -18 in the OkC win despite having a great offensive night. Well, I watched him last night, and my jaw dropped several times. Seldom have I seen a reasonably athletic and engaged defender so inept on defense. He is unable to stay in front of his man, painfully slow and unaware on rotations, and ineffective in help defense. It wasn't a surprise to me that he ranks 99th out of 113 SGs in DRPM this year, 106th last year, and 117th two seasons ago.

So you can see what a disaster a backcourt of DLO and Beasley is...far and away the worst defensive backcourt in the league. Then add Ant to the mix at SF (second to last in DRPM among SF's) and you are practically begging the opponent to rain threes on you at will.

So my questions are:

1) Do you value offense or defense more, and if applicable, what was (is) tour strength on the court?

2) Do you also see the DLO/Malik/Edwards starting 3 as potentially disastrous, and what would be your solution if it scares you as much as it does me?

I'm going to offer my suggestions to question 2 in Q's rotation thread later.

[kekgeek]

I think you are putting way to much stock in one game that Beasley was a -18 in where the wolves still won.

Since Ant has been added to the starting lineup (6 games) Wolves are 6th in the NBA in defensive rating. I know it's shocking but wolves have played league average defensive since the New Years, 19th in defensive rating. A grand total of .3 pts per 100 possessions from being 15th.
How werid it is defense hasn't been the Wolves issue since the new year

[AbeVigodaLive]

The Offense v Defense posting ratios... it's simply easier to notice offensive strengths/weaknesses... and maybe more importantly... use statistics to justify your take.

For example, I can see where me pointing out times where Russell backed off and told somebody else to guard a guy... would be considered cherry picking. Or, even if we highlight a possession or two... maybe it was the proper rotation in the Wolves scheme and somebody else screwed up along the way.

And the saying "defense wins championships" just doesn't make sense for Wolves fans. Maybe when they create the adage, "defense wins more than 30% of the games"... we'll take notice more?

[kekgeek]

To go along with my post about the Wolves are 8th in the NBA in defense since McDaniels has gotten over 20+ minutes per game consistently.

Right now the Wolves issue is offense and Kat in theory fixes a lot of that. It would also help if Rubio does not turn the ball over in over 50% of his fast break attempts this year, hits his 2nd 3 since Jan. 1.

Wolves are actually close because the defense has been really damn good lately and we see adding back arguably the most talented offensive big man in NBA history

[KiwiMatt]

Ideally, Malik Beasley should be a 6th man scoring punch off the bench, but unfortunately Culver, Okogie and to a lesser extent Edwards don't really deserve to start ahead of Beasley.

The number one issue on this team is we have zero two way players. ZERO.

[KiwiMatt]

Ideally, Malik Beasley should be a 6th man scoring punch off the bench, but unfortunately Culver, Okogie and to a lesser extent Edwards don't really deserve to start ahead of Beasley.

The number one issue on this team is we have zero two way players. ZERO.

[SameOldNudityDrew]

Totally agree on the importance of defense. It's one of the reasons I can't see a team building a contender around KAT and DLO. You just can't have your two best players be bad defenders. KAT's gotten better, but he's still not great. And DLO is obviously a sieve. There have been so many times this year when I've seen him make just atrocious defensive plays.

I'll look more closely at Malik's defense after reading your post. I'll admit, I've thought this year that he looks better on defense than he did last year, although that may not be saying much. I have said he's best cut out for being a great 6th man than a starter, but on a team this bad, it's really hard not to start him.

Statistically, Ant might be a bad defender this year, and there are certainly plays in which he doesn't look like he knows what he's doing, but I'm actually feeling a lot better than I was about his potential defense than I was before the draft. He's been pretty good about deflecting balls and playing some pretty good man D at times. But he's a rookie, and he's not a natural defender like Thybulle or anything. Theoretically, I'd be fine with not starting him, but featuring him off the bench. I was fine with that before. But kek's stats are backed up by the eye test. We have had a better defense since he moved into the starting lineup (some of that may be the games DLO hasn't played!).

All of this is still a somewhat small sample size. If we start those three through the next quarter of the season or so and we're getting killed defensively, of course I'm open to a change. My gut says it should be to bring Ant off the bench because he's a rookie. But honestly, I think there are signs his defense has some potential. At the end of the day, I honestly just want DLO out of here. He's the problem.

And for what it's worth, yeah, I always worked my ass off on D. I couldn't ever shoot for shit. I was great at grabbing a board and turning the ball into transition. But defense was my calling card.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

To go along with my post about the Wolves are 8th in the NBA in defense since McDaniels has gotten over 20+ minutes per game consistently.

Right now the Wolves issue is offense and Kat in theory fixes a lot of that. It would also help if Rubio does not turn the ball over in over 50% of his fast break attempts this year, hits his 2nd 3 since Jan. 1.

Wolves are actually close because the defense has been really damn good lately and we see adding back arguably the most talented offensive big man in NBA history

We'll see...they have also been playing quite a few below average offenses in that stretch. We haven't had to play the Bucks, Clippers, Nets....

But yeah, the defense has had a sustained run of being solid. Also, it seems like we get killed on fast breaks off missed shots. Perhaps we can get some symbiosis between offense and defense if we start putting the ball in the basket more (i.e. KAT coming back).

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

To answer FNG's question:

- I value offense slightly more than defense because I believe it's harder to teach offensive skill than defensive skills (shooting, dribbling, touch, craftiness around the hoop, foul drawing, etc.). A really good coach and culture plus just a couple of good defenders can help make a team defense acceptable so long as the rest of the roster isn't completely ambivalent (ala DLO). You can't really do that on offense.

- I do not see the DLO/Beasley/Edwards trio as disastrous because I think if you add KAT into that mix it could be a really potent offense. Now do I see it as a "lineup of death"? Absolutely not. But I think given the one-way nature of most our players, I would probably be willing to roll the dice that this group is more likely to outscore their opponent than a more defensive oriented lineup.

- By the way, within a year or two, I think if you replace "Beasley" with "Nowell" above, you may have an even better trio and a SG that can defend more effectively.