Rotation Question

[khans2k5 [enjin:6608728]]

Since Thibs is looking like he's gonna keep the rotation at 9 players would you rather he keep the rotation as is or bench Tyus to play Josh?

Rose is basically the backup PG with how much he runs the offense so benching Tyus would get Okogie his minutes. Tyus while a good ball mover and +/- guy just doesn't bring much to the table on either end. Ideally for me we'd trade rose to a contender at the deadline for a pick if he can stay healthy so both Tyus and Josh could get playing time and Rose's value is pretty much as high as it's gonna get while he stays healthy. I get people want G benched, but neither Saric nor Gibson are really anchors that you could build a small ball lineup around and the rebounding would be real bad. Not to mention balancing minutes between just 3 bigs is not easy when only one can really be out there by himself.

[Monster]

I had the same thought as you about maybe putting Okogie in there instead of Tyus...at least at times. To me I want to see a few more games with the new players added and guys healthy and some various teams with various strengths and weakness come through and see what happens. The positives are that I think everyone on this board would agree we have legit depth and even if there is one guy you want out of the rotation there is probably one guy that still deserves to be in it. I think Tyus has done enough in the past he should get some run. I also think that while Okogie is a general positive or there his defense can get overrated at times. It really looks like this team has some legit depth. We are going to win a nice bunch of games. This team has talent. It's gonna be had to get everyone out there.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

I don't really have a problem with Thibs using a 9-man rotation. My bigger problem is how sometimes he doesn't play that 9th guy enough minutes or fails to sub defense for offense in close end of game situations. So it's more of how he uses those 9 guys specifically.

As for Okogie, I do think we are overrating him a bit as Monster says. He's the shiny new toy and we all love his energy and defense. But so far he is a negative on offense and defensively he can sometimes get a little over zealous. Now if I thought he'd go all season without getting some decent reps, I'd have a problem with that. But the games he has played in have been solid minutes and mostly in the heat of battle (vs. garbage time). Injuries WILL happen. I have no doubt we'll see Okogie in the rotation again.

- Jimmy Butler played 42 games and averaged 8 minutes per game his rookie year. Now he's a todp 15 player.

- Robert Covington didn't get regular NBA rotation minutes until he was 24. Now he is an elite role player.

- E'Twaun Moore played in only 38 games his rookie year and has methodically developed himself into a very good starting NBA SG.

[Lipoli390]

I don't really have a problem with Thibs using a 9-man rotation. My bigger problem is how sometimes he doesn't play that 9th guy enough minutes or fails to sub defense for offense in close end of game situations. So it's more of how he uses those 9 guys specifically.

As for Okogie, I do think we are overrating him a bit as Monster says. He's the shiny new toy and we all love his energy and defense. But so far he is a negative on offense and defensively he can sometimes get a little over zealous. Now if I thought he'd go all season without getting some decent reps, I'd have a problem with that. But the games he has played in have been solid minutes and mostly in the heat of battle (vs. garbage time). Injuries WILL happen. I have no doubt we'll see Okogie in the rotation again.

- Jimmy Butler played 42 games and averaged 8 minutes per game his rookie year. Now he's a todp 15 player.

- Robert Covington didn't get regular NBA rotation minutes until he was 24. Now he is an elite role player.

- E'Twaun Moore played in only 38 games his rookie year and has methodically developed himself into a very good starting NBA SG.

I do have a problem with inflexibly sticking to the same 9-man rotation every single game regardless of matchups and or developments during a game. But I agree that the bigger problem is how Thibodeau allocates minutes among his chosen 9.

As for Okogie, it's not a matter of a blanket policy that has him in or out of the rotation every game. It's a matter of using him when the situation calls for it. Last night the team needed his energy and his rebounding. And given the way others like Teague and Wiggins were shooting, it was even worth bringing him in for shooting purposes. There is also the player-development issue. If we want to start seeing the Wolves develop young talent, then talented young players who show promise in NBA games, as Okogie already has, need to get minutes to facilitate their development. The Butler example is a poor one, because it his 8 minutes per game came under Thibodeau. And Covington was an undrafted project. Moore isn't nearly as talented as Okogie.

Thibodeau's inflexibility and his overall poor judgment are astounding. Not only would it have made sense to get Okogie in the game for energy and rebounding, but getting Tolliver in the game was also in order given our scoring problems last night. I could tell by the 2nd quarter that Wiggins and Teague didn't have it last night. The signs with both of them are all too familiar. Yet, our head coach either didn't notice or chose to stubbornly deny what he saw out of an unrealistic conviction that they would turn it around. I'm not suggesting that Teague and Wiggins should have been shut down entirely in the 2nd quarter. I'm simply saying that they both received far too many minutes on the floor given how they were playing. Then there was the incredible lack of ball movement in the offense, but I'll stop there.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Lip, I love Okogie, but he isn't as good as many of us think.....at least not yet. We're still in the honeymoon period with him, so the missed shots and poor defensive decisions get forgotten easily while the pure hustle and great defensive plays are easily remembered. On balance, he's just not that good yet.

Based on your description of the problem, it sounds like Tyus needed more time at the point since he keeps the ball moving on offense and helps guys like KAT get shots in good position. I'm not sure how much Okogie would have helped since he in't much of an offensive threat and our defense was pretty solid in this game.

[Duke13]

Q, I get the point about Okogie being the shiny new toy. I've seen enough in term of defensive ability, and skills set to see Okogie having the upside to be a very useful player and one that has more impact then both Tyus and Gorgui. I'm two months from now I could realistically see Okogie being part of one of our best lineups to close games because of his versititly defensively. I get his shooting percentage isn't great, and often looks like the game is moving a bit fast for him right now. I'd like to see Tibs let him play through that now over limited upside players such as Tyus and Gorgui.

[ItsJustSoSab]

Okogie I understand. When posters on here ask for Tolliver just for "energy", that makes me question this boards sanity. Tolliver has been probably the worst player in the rotation. Defense atrocious, rebounding meh, anything other than 3's? nope. If he isn't hitting his 3's he is just a good teammate hype man who gives a lot of energy while people drive by him for easy buckets

[Monster]

The Wolves outrebounded the Grizz last night and held them to 42% shooting. Seems like the Wolves needed offense to me. I really didn't see the Wolves not bringing energy it's just that Memphis was REaLLY getting into guys. Surprisingly they pretty much left Tyus alone to do his thing...that might have been strategic.

It's kinda funny that Thibs finally plays 2 PGs and people rip him for not playing someone else.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Q, I get the point about Okogie being the shiny new toy. I've seen enough in term of defensive ability, and skills set to see Okogie having the upside to be a very useful player and one that has more impact then both Tyus and Gorgui. I'm two months from now I could realistically see Okogie being part of one of our best lineups to close games because of his versititly defensively. I get his shooting percentage isn't great, and often looks like the game is moving a bit fast for him right now. I'd like to see Tibs let him play through that now over limited upside players such as Tyus and Gorgui.

Fair take....I'm not against Okogie being in the rotation, but I'm really not sure how much he would have helped specifically in the Memphis game where scoring points seemed to be our biggest problem.

[crazy-canuck [enjin:18955461]]

The Grizz are a good team and l think they are a legit playoff team.

However, thibs inflexibility is agonizing to watch. There were multiple opportunities to change it up and it infuse some energy, but thibs did nothing. He just threw the same group of guys together and hoped they figure it out. Everybody has off days and the Grizz style of grit and grind have ALWAYS given us trouble.

TAJ didnt look great, but thats because he was matched up with Gasol all night. I love TAJ, but a starting C he is not. He should have been our back up C last night when the Grizz were rolling out Green as their bench C.

When teams go small and you still dont use tolliver or okogie, thats on Thibs. His insistence to play dieng ahead of those 2 is whats crazy.