First 20 Games - Player Grades for the Starters

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

20 games is a solid sample size. Here are some first quarter thoughts and grades on each of the starters thus far.

Andrew Wiggins: He started off hot, but has since cooled off and his advanced stats like TS%, PER, and WS/48 are back down to where they were last year, which is basically average. He has hardly moved the needle in the "do shit" stats. And anyone that is playing the most minutes on one of the worst defenses in the league simply will never get a top grade. I would have given him a solid B if he had continued the efficient scoring we saw early in the year. The one area that is really promising for him is the 3-point shot, but while that has been a very solid 39%, his 2-point shooting percentage is at a career low right now. Wiggins got off to inefficient starts the last two years too, so hopefully he gets back on track. Grade: C

Karl-Anthony Towns: He is our most productive player when you look at the stat sheet. Every night, you see him do something which seems unreal for someone his size. Unfortunately, he too often gets caught up in his own hype and tries to do too much, especially on offense. This leads to some ill-advised shots and missing wide open team mates. Defensively, his self-importance prevents him from challenging enough shots and getting physical. Unfortunately, Thibs has done nothing to simplify things for KAT. But of all the players we have on our roster, I think he's the one most likely to put it all together some day. He has the absolute ideal mix of talent, work ethic, competitiveness, and IQ. He's also the least experienced pro of all five starters. Grade: B-

Zach LaVine: Zach is one of our "big three", and as such, he deserves just as much credit (or blame) as the other two for our poor start. Unfortunately, his defense continues to be an issue, although the effort is certainly there. His rebounding and 3 pt % have also fallen off a bit since last season. I definitely like him spending more minutes with the 4 second unit guys. Grade: C

Ricky Rubio: Ricky is probably one of my favorite Wolves ever, but he has gotten off to a poor start. We can make excuses, such as the elbow bothering him and Thibs' reduced reliance on his natural gifts, but it is what it is. His 3-pt shooting is below his already low historical standards and his defense has suffered as well. I do think he's played better the last few games, but man, he had a poor start. Grade: D+

Gorgui Dieng: Dieng plays opposing Centers on defense and therefore he spends the most time of any of our players in and around the paint. Unfortunately, protecting the paint is not his strong suit. He gets out-muscled too often or chooses poor angles against penetrating guards as opposed to getting square and walling up. His rebounding has steadily declined every year since entering the league, which is troubling. Yet, despite all of this, he's probably STILL our most effective team defender. If KAT wasn't so weak defensively, I wouldn't have as much of a problem with Dieng starting. But you just can't have two starting bigs that have problems protecting the paint. Offensively, Gorgui is a glue guy that knows his role and has enough moxie to punish teams that sag off him too far or allow him to roll to the hoop with a head of steam. However, his mid-range jumper has recently become less reliable. Grade: C+

I'll get around to bench players in the next day or two as well.

[Wile E Coyote [enjin:17432808]]

Nice post Q!

One thing that bothers me about Dieng's and Towns' defense is their insistence on letting driving players go past them in an attempt to block the shot from behind. How often does this actually work? 10%? Zach did the same thing on D once last game too.

The defense would be much better off if they took the less glamorous approach of just walling up on defense and making the driving player stop and put up a difficult shot.

IMO the Wolves starting lineup would work better if one of the two bigs was a strong, tough, physical defender who wasn't so worried about his BPG stat. I think we saw a bit of this the last two games where Cole made such a positive impact on defense. Reminded me a bit of Ervin "Not so magic" Johnson the year the Wolves went to the WCF.

[Monster]

Thibs kinda asks a lot of Dieng in some ways. In some cases he is better playing away from the basket on PFs because he gets to use his hands to get poke aways and all that. Sam would have Towns and Dieng just matchup with whoever at times but Thibs seems much more steadfast on Dieng guarding centers and Towns guarding PFs. For both guys it presents challenges because of their physical makeups. I know a lot of people want Towns play king center but I do think it's good to not have him bang with centers for all of his minutes long term. The Spurs protected Duncan a lot playing some dude next to him and obviously Duncan was a terrific defender regardless of position it was good he wasn't banging around with some of the big guys easpcially when he was in his prime. I don't know if there will be a lot of big physical centers in this league to play a giant but you look at the PF position...good gravy it could be absolutely loaded with. If multi-talented players. Maybe Thibs is looking towards that and thinks Towns is gonna have to defend those guy down the road. It's interesting to think about.

Also I think your grades and breakdowns are pretty much spot on. If Wiggins keeps hitting threes say even at 37% that's gonna be a pretty big time development.

Edit:

One more thought about Dieng. Last year he started off really struggling guarding pick and roll in space etc. many of us callled him out for it and it was a big disappointment. As the season went on through he clearly improved in that area. Whoever worked with him KG or the coaching staff or a combination he because much better in that area and a lot of times it was a solid aspect for him. It's possible whatever the defensive concepts Thibs wants are different enough that Dieng hasn't fully got them down yet and it's not like other guys have been great either and as I mentioned earlier he is playing a different position much more often so that's another adjustment.

As for his shooting the long 2's he is still hitting a pretty healthy percentage at 43% and he is taking a little more of those this year than last year. The 10-16 feet is where he is faltering at 35.3%. His 3-10 feet percentages are at a career high of 51%. It feels like his offense hasn't been as good this year though. His assist rate is up a little.

[Mstermisty [enjin:6864008]]

Good analysis and hard to argue with any of these grades. This starting unit which showed promise at the end of last season hasn't produced. I'd maybe drop Karl down to a "C" as well, because other than a couple stand out games he hasn't done more to help us than either Wiggins or Lavine overall. Rubio has earned a D+, and Dieng has been meh.

All five guys made big plays at the end of last game, and they started to show signs of smarter basketball, but now we'll see how that translates into playing against the smartest team in the league.

It will be interesting to see how these grades change at the 40 game mark. Or if even all five guys are still starting.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Nice post Q!

One thing that bothers me about Dieng's and Towns' defense is their insistence on letting driving players go past them in an attempt to block the shot from behind. How often does this actually work? 10%? Zach did the same thing on D once last game too.

The defense would be much better off if they took the less glamorous approach of just walling up on defense and making the driving player stop and put up a difficult shot.

IMO the Wolves starting lineup would work better if one of the two bigs was a strong, tough, physical defender who wasn't so worried about his BPG stat. I think we saw a bit of this the last two games where Cole made such a positive impact on defense. Reminded me a bit of Ervin "Not so magic" Johnson the year the Wolves went to the WCF.

Yeah, it's interesting how a lot of the top NBA interior defenders over the years seemed to get better with age. I think as their athleticism declined, they ended up becoming much better with their technique and positioning. Leaving one's feet in the paint is often the worst thing a big man can do.

There is a part of me that wouldn't mind seeing how Cole would look as our starting Center. It would be the classic "token" starter, where he'd probably play no more than 18 minutes a game or so. But I wonder how our defense would look with him starting and bringing Dieng off the bench. The problem is Cole is so limited offensively and he is very foul prone.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Thibs kinda asks a lot of Dieng in some ways. In some cases he is better playing away from the basket on PFs because he gets to use his hands to get poke aways and all that. Sam would have Towns and Dieng just matchup with whoever at times but Thibs seems much more steadfast on Dieng guarding centers and Towns guarding PFs. For both guys it presents challenges because of their physical makeups. I know a lot of people want Towns play king center but I do think it's good to not have him bang with centers for all of his minutes long term. The Spurs protected Duncan a lot playing some dude next to him and obviously Duncan was a terrific defender regardless of position it was good he wasn't banging around with some of the big guys easpcially when he was in his prime. I don't know if there will be a lot of big physical centers in this league to play a giant but you look at the PF position...good gravy it could be absolutely loaded with. If multi-talented players. Maybe Thibs is looking towards that and thinks Towns is gonna have to defend those guy down the road. It's interesting to think about.

Also I think your grades and breakdowns are pretty much spot on. If Wiggins keeps hitting threes say even at 37% that's gonna be a pretty big time development.

Edit:

One more thought about Dieng. Last year he started off really struggling guarding pick and roll in space etc. many of us callled him out for it and it was a big disappointment. As the season went on through he clearly improved in that area. Whoever worked with him KG or the coaching staff or a combination he because much better in that area and a lot of times it was a solid aspect for him. It's possible whatever the defensive concepts Thibs wants are different enough that Dieng hasn't fully got them down yet and it's not like other guys have been great either and as I mentioned earlier he is playing a different position much more often so that's another adjustment.

As for his shooting the long 2's he is still hitting a pretty healthy percentage at 43% and he is taking a little more of those this year than last year. The 10-16 feet is where he is faltering at 35.3%. His 3-10 feet percentages are at a career high of 51%. It feels like his offense hasn't been as good this year though. His assist rate is up a little.

Dieng fares quite well in ESPN's defensive RPM metric. But they also have him rated as a Power Forward, and as we've discussed, he's clearly playing Center on defense. I have no doubt he's improved defensively over the years, but he isn't good enough to overcome the collective weakness of the other players. Too often our perimeter guys get beat on backdoor cuts - that's not Dieng's fault. And too often they don't fight hard enough over screens and end up in switches that lead to mismatches - that's also not Dieng's fault.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

I'm largely in agreement with your grades, Q, and looking forward to your second team grades...as well as the coaching staff.

[Wile E Coyote [enjin:17432808]]

There is a part of me that wouldn't mind seeing how Cole would look as our starting Center. It would be the classic "token" starter, where he'd probably play no more than 18 minutes a game or so. But I wonder how our defense would look with him starting and bringing Dieng off the bench. The problem is Cole is so limited offensively and he is very foul prone.

I've been thinking about the same thing. It would not surprise me if it helped establish a better defensive start/tone for the whole game. Towns does not seem to have a strong base, which causes him to struggle against the bigger, stronger guys. Until he addresses that, playing next to a big physical (if limited) teammate might be a good option. However, as you mention, the issue would be that would put two starters on the floor who can't shoot, which might pose spacing problems offensively.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

There is a part of me that wouldn't mind seeing how Cole would look as our starting Center. It would be the classic "token" starter, where he'd probably play no more than 18 minutes a game or so. But I wonder how our defense would look with him starting and bringing Dieng off the bench. The problem is Cole is so limited offensively and he is very foul prone.

I've been thinking about the same thing. It would not surprise me if it helped establish a better defensive start/tone for the whole game. Towns does not seem to have a strong base, which causes him to struggle against the bigger, stronger guys. Until he addresses that, playing next to a big physical (if limited) teammate might be a good option. However, as you mention, the issue would be that would put two starters on the floor who can't shoot, which might pose spacing problems offensively.

I agree with this take, and would be interested in seeing Cole in that role. While I have been disappointed with his offense (where is the guy who was so effective in the pick and roll last year in LA?), his rebounding and defense have been impressive to me. I think Thibs did a good job in signing him so cheap, although I'd like to see a smoother performance on offense...man, he puts up some wild layups at times.

[Wile E Coyote [enjin:17432808]]

I agree with this take, and would be interested in seeing Cole in that role. While I have been disappointed with his offense (where is the guy who was so effective in the pick and roll last year in LA?), his rebounding and defense have been impressive to me. I think Thibs did a good job in signing him so cheap, although I'd like to see a smoother performance on offense...man, he puts up some wild layups at times.

Some big guys have very limited handling, so you don't give them the ball in a situation where they have to dribble or do anything complicated. You give them the ball when all they have to do is lay it in, put in a quick hook, or dunk it.

That is one benefit of having CP3 handle the ball so much - he can make sure to spoonfeed his bigs with on time, on target passes.